What did we learn: Illinois

[Hayseed]

13 hours ago, TheSker said:

It never did for Mike Riley.

It absolutely did.... passing coffee made them run for donuts.

[Mavric]

5 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

the passing game sets up the running game. 

 

Just because you keep repeating this doesn't make it true.  

 

Nebraska is currently running it 55% of the time and passing it 45% of the time.  How are you insisting that is the passing game setting up the running game?  If anything, it would be the opposite.

 

As far as I'm concerned, I don't think we're using either to set up the other.  We are pretty darn good at both.  We do whichever based on situation and what the defense is doing.  Often, we have a play called that has both a pass and run built in and let the QB decide.  

 

You keep making blanket statements without anything to back them up.  I guess just whatever you believe is true to you.

[Hayseed]

17 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Ha! I forced 6 people to click the eyeroll button.

That’s probably one guy with five socks.

[Mavric]

9 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

It's a WCO technique practiced by lots of coaches, Frost and Riley included. 

 

FROST DOES NOT RUN THE WEST COAST OFFENSE.  USING SOME OF THE SAME PRINCIPLES IS NOT THE SAME THING AS RUNNING THE SAME OFFENSE.

 

Show me any clips of the 1980s 49ers that look anything like what we are running now.  Spoiler: there aren't any.

 

You might as well be saying Mike Leach and Paul Johnson both run the same offense.  

[Moiraine]

4 minutes ago, Mavric said:

You might as well be saying Mike Leach and Paul Johnson both run the same offense.  

 

 

Speaking of Mike Leach, Washington State's pass-to-run ratio is insane. I knew it would be #1, but it's #1

 

1	Wash State	70.56%
2	E Carolina	60.42%

[Guy Chamberlin]

6 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Did you even look at my post? I gave the pass to run ratio rankings. Frost's offenses are nothing at all like Riley's when it comes to passing vs. running.

 

Bubble screen left. Bubble screen right. Run up the middle. Pass over the top. QB zone read draw. Quick sideline flare. RB up the middle again. Constant jet sweep fake, constant misdirection.

 

Frost, Langsdorf, Beck and tons of coaches in the college and pros have all been running variations on this offense in recent years, and the Run Pass split veers towards the run when the team is winning, and the team that's winning generally has the better defense. 

 

You seem to be comparing some national aggregate rating. It's pretty simple to compare the actual splits between Riley and Frost and note that Riley was still accused of pass-happiness in 2016, when he passed slightly less-often than Scott Frost's UCF team. And the complaint long pre-dates Riley. 

 

Are we really denying that a stud quarterback and a beloved former Husker as coach has kept us from complaining about things we used to complain about? 

 

 

[ColoradoHusk]

6 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Speaking of Mike Leach, Washington State's pass-to-run ratio is insane. I knew it would be #1, but it's #1

 

1	Wash State	70.56%
2	E Carolina	60.42%

Here is what Mike Leach thinks about your opinion on the pass-to-run ratio.  FYI, he doesn't care.

 

 

 

[Moiraine]

1 minute ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Are we really denying that a stud quarterback and a beloved former Husker as coach has kept us from complaining about things we used to complain about?

 

 

Yes, because people complain when things aren't working, and Nebraska fans revert to complaining about the pass more often when it's not working. I don't give a crap who the coach is, no one would have complained about pass happy offenses if the teams were winning games.

If you can't see that Frost's offense is a lot different than Riley's I dunno what the hell to tell you.

[Guy Chamberlin]

13 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

FROST DOES NOT RUN THE WEST COAST OFFENSE.  USING SOME OF THE SAME PRINCIPLES IS NOT THE SAME THING AS RUNNING THE SAME OFFENSE.

 

 

 

THAT'S WHY I SAID IT'S A WCO TECHNIQUE PRACTICED BY A LOT OF COACHES.

 

Which it is. 

[Mavric]

3 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

You seem to be comparing some national aggregate rating. It's pretty simple to compare the actual splits between Riley and Frost and note that Riley was still accused of pass-happiness in 2016, when he passed slightly less-often than Scott Frost's UCF team. And the complaint long pre-dates Riley. 

 

As we continue down the "cherry-picking stats to fit my agenda road.....

 

Yes, Langs called more running plays in 2016?  Why?  Because he was a bad offensive coordinator and would go ultra-conservative when he had the lead, which we happened to have fairly regularly in 2016.

 

 

So of course you picked 2016 because that's the year that fit your agenda.  

 

Why not go with 2017 when Riley/Langs had "their" QB and could finally run the offense they really wanted to run?  Probably because then you'd have to point out that Langs was 57% pass and that did a terrible job of setting up the run as we only averaged 3.5 yards per rushing attempt.  

 

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

[Mavric]

4 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

THAT'S WHY I SAID IT'S A WCO TECHNIQUE PRACTICED BY A LOT OF COACHES.

 

Which it is. 

 

No.  It's not a "WCO technique".  It uses some of the same principles but employs them in a much different way.  And it does a lot of other things that are not found in WCO.  So they are not similar, any more than Leach and Johnson may doe some things that are "similar".

 

Can you find anyone else, anywhere else that has said that they are similar?  Any media member, football analyst, anyone?  Or are you the only person who's been able to come to this epiphany?

[Ulty]

9 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Are we really denying that a stud quarterback and a beloved former Husker as coach has kept us from complaining about things we used to complain about? 

 

I get what you are trying to say, but what it actually comes down to is that an effective offense has kept us from complaining about an ineffective offense.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Just now, Moiraine said:

 

 

Yes, because people complain when things aren't working, and Nebraska fans revert to complaining about the pass more often when it's not working. I don't give a crap who the coach is, no one would have complained about pass happy offenses if the teams were winning games.

If you can't see that Frost's offense is a lot different than Riley's I dunno what the hell to tell you.

 

Lovie Smith's offense isn't a lot different than Frost's either, and that A.J. Bush runs it pretty damn well. Frost and Martinez just ran it better. 

 

Also, this same board complained almost constantly about pass-happy playcalling, even when Pelini's teams were winning. 

 

If I'm riding this too hard, it's because I remember spending the last ten years arguing that the dreaded "balance" offense was actually a pretty good idea, that a lot of smart coaches pass on 3rd and 2, and that if we could find a dual-threat quarterback who was a better passer it could make all the difference in the world.

 

Also: defense. 

[ColoradoHusk]

I was not a big fan of Langsdorf's offense, not because of his preference to "use the pass to set up the run", but because of his preference on a pro-style, non-mobile QB.  When Armstrong graduated, and Langsdorf handed the QB job to Tanner Lee, there were many comments of "the run game will be fine, because the pass will set up the run".  It's not as simple as that statement, because the run game needs to be schemed effectively, and the run game is easier when it utilizes a mobile QB.  I understand that Wisconsin has an effective run game without utilizing the QB run game, but they consistently have one of the best o-lines in the country, and they physically outman most teams.  Also, Wisconsin's tends to struggle with teams who can match up with them physically.

 

Now, I don't know if I would say that Frost utilizes the pass to set up the run.  If anything, Frost has used the QB run game early to set up the rest of his offense.  Yes, Frost does pass a good percentage of the plays, because he wants to be able to beat teams with the run and the pass.  However, I do think that a physical run game (albeit out of the spread) is a staple of the offense.

[Moiraine]

1 minute ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Yes, Frost does pass a good percentage of the plays

 

 

A good enough % to be ranked #72!