2020 Quarterback Competition

[Courtesy Flush]

2 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

No

You lectured another member about not providing statistics in their argument with you about defensive improvement. I agreed with you and even gave you a “+1”. Now you have the audacity to show up on a superior statistics post and just say no? @Nebfanatic, I’m so disappointed in you. Try again, this time with statistics... 

 

[DefenderAO]

On 11/30/2019 at 10:23 AM, Nebfanatic said:

Sorry but your experience as a former college athlete doesn't mean jack squat. The coaches put McCaffrey in easy situations. As they should, he is a freshman with little experience at QB. But if Martinez were throwing to a wide open spielman off of a reverse he probably hits him for a TD. If Martinez came in for one play and had mainly been used as a runner all season he would have tossed a TD on that play too. I'm saying THIS SEASON Martinez was our best choice. McCaffrey would have limited the offense even more than it was and probably would have been more mistake prone. That's what happened in practice over hundreds of reps. What makes you think the games against tougher opponents would have went better? 

 

Obviously the competition is wide open for next season but McCaffrey has to get better at throwing the football if he wants to win.

 

Just giving you a perspective from someone who's seen a similar level.  "Easy situations."  Cold sitting on the sideline, frustrated thinking he probably better than the current starter - delivers.  Practice can be overrated.  Adrian is not a gameday player.  He was bad this year.  Really bad.  We lost 7 games.  It would not have been worse with McCaffrey.  Adrian threw a pass right to a defender 5 yards short of a sure TD (Maryland)...but you think he delivers on that throw against Iowa?  Great.  Living in a deluded reality is fine for some.

[DefenderAO]

2 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

No

Mr. Martinez, with all due respect, your son had a very poor year.  We wish him well, truly, but we need better performances to compete at this level.

[Courtesy Flush]

12 minutes ago, DefenderAO said:

Mr. Martinez, with all due respect, your son had a very poor year.  We wish him well, truly, but we need better performances to compete at this level.

I think I peed a little.  This cracked me up. Oh man... too good. 
 

I’ll admit it, I drink about as much Koolaid as @Nebfanatic and typically agree with 95% of what he says about the rest of the team. We just disagree about 2AM. 

[Stumpy1]

The excuse of not having WRs or TEs to stretch the field is BS, same with not having time in the pocket. 

[Nebfanatic]

1 hour ago, ZMagers22 said:

You lectured another member about not providing statistics in their argument with you about defensive improvement. I agreed with you and even gave you a “+1”. Now you have the audacity to show up on a superior statistics post and just say no? @Nebfanatic, I’m so disappointed in you. Try again, this time with statistics... 

 

Statistics don't work the way you think they do. What you have is a very very small sample size and you are claiming those results would bare out over a large sample size with 95% certainty. You would be wrong often if you assumed results over a small sample size will equate to the same results over a large sample. That is basic statistics. None of that takes into account when McCaffrey is on the field his options are much more limited than Martinez. To assume he would perform the same as he did in his incredibly small sample size over the course of the entire season is to assume he was running a full playbook in his small sample size which he did not. If you want I can find you about 100 examples of a player looking really good in a small sample size only to flop when given full usage. 

[Nebfanatic]

1 hour ago, ZMagers22 said:

I think I peed a little.  This cracked me up. Oh man... too good. 
 

I’ll admit it, I drink about as much Koolaid as @Nebfanatic and typically agree with 95% of what he says about the rest of the team. We just disagree about 2AM. 

This isn't even a defense of Martinez, but Luke would not have had a 85+ QBR had he played the whole season, he just wouldn't have. He was put in positions to be successful. He didn't have to make the offense successful. There is a big difference. McCaffrey will be fantastic but he is raw and I am positive if he was given the keys at the start of this season he would have thrown more picks than Martinez. He might have been more exciting, but he needed that RS for his growth at the QB position and I think everyone will be better because of it including him.

[Undone]

9 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

To assume he would perform the same as he did in his incredibly small sample size over the course of the entire season is to assume he was running a full playbook in his small sample size which he did not.

 

Agreed.

 

The argument that McCaffrey comes in and automatically gives better results is I think a function of two big factors:

 

1. It's the classic "the backup QB is the fan's favorite player when things are going wrong" syndrome.

2. Our fan base loves seeing a QB running the ball from a nostalgia standpoint.

 

Legitimately asking because I'm not certain: Did McCaffrey really have any snaps where he stood in the pocket without scrambling/rolling out and made reads and completed a pass this season? I'm not sure that he did. I didn't attend any practices this season and neither did anybody else on this board, but I have a feeling that Luke didn't outperform Adrian in the department of pocket passing. If he had significantly done so, Frost probably would have benched Martinez for Luke.

 

Also, does anybody actually think Luke's freshman frame could have handled shots on 15+ option plays per game all season? I don't.

[runningblind]

1 hour ago, Stumpy1 said:

The excuse of not having WRs or TEs to stretch the field is BS, same with not having time in the pocket. 

Trying to understand...are you saying the WR and TE were perfectly adequate and there was all day to throw, he just didn't do it? Or are you saying he should have been able to perform at an all conference level without WR/TE and no time to throw?

[Undone]

Oh, and I forgot one other factor - When you have a freshman QB who has been scouted as being more of a "run first" guy, defenses are going to blitz all day long. See also: the Minnesota game this year. And how did that one turn out?

 

Luke has a shot at beating Adrian out for 2020. I don't even pretend to know what will happen there, we'll see.

[Nebfanatic]

4 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

Agreed.

 

The argument that McCaffrey comes in and automatically gives better results is I think a function of two big factors:

 

1. It's the classic "the backup QB is the fan's favorite player when things are going wrong" syndrome.

2. Our fan base loves seeing a QB running the ball from a nostalgia standpoint.

 

Legitimately asking because I'm not certain: Did McCaffrey really have any snaps where he stood in the pocket without scrambling/rolling out and made reads and completed a pass this season? I'm not sure that he did. I didn't attend any practices this season and neither did anybody else on this board, but I have a feeling that Luke didn't outperform Adrian in the department of pocket passing. If he had significantly done so, Frost probably would have benched Martinez for Luke.

 

Also, does anybody actually think Luke's freshman frame could have handled shots on 15+ option plays all season? I don't.

I can't think of any but in fairness I listened to a few games on the radio. Was his TD to Noa against Indiana on a rollout? Either way I agree completely with everything you said here. 

[Stumpy1]

4 minutes ago, runningblind said:

Trying to understand...are you saying the WR and TE were perfectly adequate and there was all day to throw, he just didn't do it? Or are you saying he should have been able to perform at an all conference level without WR/TE and no time to throw?

He had time to find the open receivers during games.  His issue was he only went with 1 read and if they were covered, he would try and force it or check down the the RB or safety throw in the flat.  

[Undone]

4 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

I can't think of any but in fairness I listened to a few games on the radio. Was his TD to Noa against Indiana on a rollout? Either way I agree completely with everything you said here. 

 

Yes, it was.

 

 

[Nebfanatic]

3 minutes ago, Husker_Bohunk said:

By all accounts Mike Grant was superb in practice but it was his ineptness on the field during actual games that let Tommy Frazier start half way through his freshman season.

 

I don't care how well Adrian Martinez is getting it done in practices because he certainly isn't getting it done when it counts.

And the coaches clearly don't have confidence that someone will get it done better this season. I'll trust their decision because I'm not of the crowd that thinks the back up would have been better. Both of the backups have their flaws and I'm sure there was a reason why they were backups. Vedral may run the offense well but his physical tools limit the effectiveness. McCaffrey is raw. I don't believe we would have had better results with either of them at the helm full time.

[DefenderAO]

1 hour ago, Nebfanatic said:

Statistics don't work the way you think they do. What you have is a very very small sample size and you are claiming those results would bare out over a large sample size with 95% certainty. You would be wrong often if you assumed results over a small sample size will equate to the same results over a large sample. That is basic statistics. None of that takes into account when McCaffrey is on the field his options are much more limited than Martinez. To assume he would perform the same as he did in his incredibly small sample size over the course of the entire season is to assume he was running a full playbook in his small sample size which he did not. If you want I can find you about 100 examples of a player looking really good in a small sample size only to flop when given full usage. 

 

How's this sample size - 15 losses in two years with Adrian labeled as the leader of this team, almost half as him co-captain.  

 

The last 20 years doesn't need to delude people into loving mediocrity and failure.  Adrian personifies these traits, especially in his 2nd season campaign.  He is not the guy.  Period.  Now will the millionaires who make these choices see this fact?  Unsure.  But I don't think we need to waste seasons due to ego or naivety.