Scoring the Huskers: Quarterbacks

[runningblind]

1 hour ago, HUSKER 37 said:

 

If these guys all get hurt around midseason, who do we have?  Bunch?

If the sun explodes, is it going to get cold?

 

Do you think the QBs are gonna go hang out with the kickers or something?

[HUSKER 37]

3 minutes ago, runningblind said:

If the sun explodes, is it going to get cold?

 

Do you think the QBs are gonna go hang out with the kickers or something?

I thought the kickers were hanging out too much in the QB room...Hard to tell with the info we release...

Weren't the top 3 injured or playing hindered in 2 or 3 common games last season?

[runningblind]

10 hours ago, HUSKER 37 said:

I thought the kickers were hanging out too much in the QB room...Hard to tell with the info we release...

Weren't the top 3 injured or playing hindered in 2 or 3 common games last season?

True, but part of that was illness I believe. Bunch would be 5th also,  Martinez, Vedral, McCaffrey, Smothers, Bunch.

[N is for nowledge]

19 minutes ago, runningblind said:

True, but part of that was illness I believe. Bunch would be 5th also,  Martinez, Vedral, McCaffrey, Smothers, Bunch.

I thought bunch was in the portal again.  Second, that’s why it’s important to pump the brakes on guys like Luke and Noah.  They sure did run decisive and hard, the end result was two qbs that weren’t right for the rest of the season.  To be successful we need a qb able to run the whole offense, not running the ball 15-20 a game.  I am in the camp that thinks AM struggled mainly because of the supporting cast but who knows.  Hoping for a jump with better athletes around him and upgrades on the oline as well.

[Undone]

Some random thoughts: I think people tend to see Frost as this Chip Kelly clone and that Chip Kelly = passing the ball a lot. But if there's one thing I'm sure of about Scott it's that he's really good at figuring out how to run the ball. 

We started the season with pretty bad offensive line play but still finished 30th in rushing in the country. That's because Frost figures out ways to use the guys he has to run the ball effectively. Imagine if/when we get some of these big, talented linemen really running people over; the rushing element of the offense will be great again.

 

And when that happens, the pressure lightens on the QB position and things like play action/springing tight ends wide open down field emerge, etc., and things get easier for your quarterback. We just didn't have that last year very much at all and Adrian got the brunt of the blame for it, unfortunately.

[84HuskerLaw]

I’m one of those who wants to see a better running game in the offense.   Although I would prefer more traditional running based formations blended into the Frost offensive system I am willing to give him time to find ways to do it. But I’m more interested in seeing run plays in traditional run situations (down and distance etc).  I feel if we are getting 500 yards a game and 275 of those are generated in base run plays (excluding QB scrambles from pass plays) then we win 75% or more of our games with above average defense and special teams. We also score 40+ a game too.   As the rush yards drop though the defense must excell or we start losing the games that matter most.  

[ColoradoHusk]

29 minutes ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

I’m one of those who wants to see a better running game in the offense.   Although I would prefer more traditional running based formations blended into the Frost offensive system I am willing to give him time to find ways to do it. But I’m more interested in seeing run plays in traditional run situations (down and distance etc).  I feel if we are getting 500 yards a game and 275 of those are generated in base run plays (excluding QB scrambles from pass plays) then we win 75% or more of our games with above average defense and special teams. We also score 40+ a game too.   As the rush yards drop though the defense must excell or we start losing the games that matter most.  

What do you consider "traditional" running based formations and run situations?

[Xmas32]

3 hours ago, Undone said:

Some random thoughts: I think people tend to see Frost as this Chip Kelly clone and that Chip Kelly = passing the ball a lot. But if there's one thing I'm sure of about Scott it's that he's really good at figuring out how to run the ball. 

We started the season with pretty bad offensive line play but still finished 30th in rushing in the country. That's because Frost figures out ways to use the guys he has to run the ball effectively. Imagine if/when we get some of these big, talented linemen really running people over; the rushing element of the offense will be great again.

 

And when that happens, the pressure lightens on the QB position and things like play action/springing tight ends wide open down field emerge, etc., and things get easier for your quarterback. We just didn't have that last year very much at all and Adrian got the brunt of the blame for it, unfortunately.

 

Those people who think that are absolute morons.  Kelly's vintage Oregon teams all were run first, they just did it out of unique schemes.  Just for funsies I took a look at those stats again and HOLY SMOKES was LaMichael James awesome.

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/lamichael-james-1.html

 

Rushing & Receiving

 

• * indicates bowl stats included
•  
•  
• Glossary

						Rushing				Receiving				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Oregon					771	5082	6.6	53	51	586	11.5	4	822	5668	6.9	57
*2009	Oregon	Pac-10	FR	RB	13	230	1546	6.7	14	17	168	9.9	0	247	1714	6.9	14
*2010	Oregon	Pac-10	SO	RB	12	294	1731	5.9	21	17	208	12.2	3	311	1939	6.2	24
*2011	Oregon	Pac-12	JR	RB	12	247	1805	7.3	18	17	210	12.4	1	264	2015	7.6	19

[84HuskerLaw]

1 hour ago, ColoradoHusk said:

What do you consider "traditional" running based formations and run situations?

Two or more RBs behind the QB.  Both are there at snap most of the time.  Run blocking by the O line . I formation. Veer.  Bone.  Split T.  Etc.  lead blockers.  Basic run plays.   TE often.  1 WR split wide etc.   

Obviously one can run or pass from almost any formation but it’s hard to get number and or strength  advantage if the defense can stuff the run plays without numbers edge in doing so.  You need to put enough pressure on the defense in the run game to where they underplay the pass and u exploit it.  
I don’t feel like teams respected our run game to open up the pass game or respected our pass game to open up a run.  You need one or the other.  You need enough power run to force defenses into substitution out of a pass defense to stop runs.  
 

[ColoradoHusk]

5 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

Two or more RBs behind the QB.  Both are there at snap most of the time.  Run blocking by the O line . I formation. Veer.  Bone.  Split T.  Etc.  lead blockers.  Basic run plays.   TE often.  1 WR split wide etc.   

Obviously one can run or pass from almost any formation but it’s hard to get number and or strength  advantage if the defense can stuff the run plays without numbers edge in doing so.  You need to put enough pressure on the defense in the run game to where they underplay the pass and u exploit it.  
I don’t feel like teams respected our run game to open up the pass game or respected our pass game to open up a run.  You need one or the other.  You need enough power run to force defenses into substitution out of a pass defense to stop runs.  
 

 

Formations don’t dictate “power” or “finesse”, mindset and philosophy does. O-lines can be plenty powerful without needing an extra fullback or tight end in the formation.

 

I don’t like 2 back sets, with one of those backs being mainly a blocker.  All it does is bring another “big defender” onto the field and IMO makes it more difficult to run. I would rather have versatile players who can run, catch passes, and block well enough so it enables the offense to run and pass effectively and finding mismatches on the field.

[84HuskerLaw]

50 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Formations don’t dictate “power” or “finesse”, mindset and philosophy does. O-lines can be plenty powerful without needing an extra fullback or tight end in the formation.

 

I don’t like 2 back sets, with one of those backs being mainly a blocker.  All it does is bring another “big defender” onto the field and IMO makes it more difficult to run. I would rather have versatile players who can run, catch passes, and block well enough so it enables the offense to run and pass effectively and finding mismatches on the field.

The problem with one small scat back and a QB that is not a real run threat (AM the way he plays and is used ) is teams will just match up and never need the big guy u mention.   You have to threaten power and finesse more than just pass vs run.  You want the defense to have to struggle to substitute in Frost’s tempo game.  But if teams never need the big package cause NU never runs power = big backs + big blocking + overload formations etc) they basically go with the pass defense and dare us to run over them without our power pack.  This is what Frost lacks in my view.   I know this is rather simplistic but it’s the feel I have watching our offense struggle to sustain drives and score points.  Too little feast too much famine. 

[ColoradoHusk]

22 minutes ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

The problem with one small scat back and a QB that is not a real run threat (AM the way he plays and is used ) is teams will just match up and never need the big guy u mention.   You have to threaten power and finesse more than just pass vs run.  You want the defense to have to struggle to substitute in Frost’s tempo game.  But if teams never need the big package cause NU never runs power = big backs + big blocking + overload formations etc) they basically go with the pass defense and dare us to run over them without our power pack.  This is what Frost lacks in my view.   I know this is rather simplistic but it’s the feel I have watching our offense struggle to sustain drives and score points.  Too little feast too much famine. 

 

Did I ever say anything about the single back being a smallish, scat back?  The ideal single back is a combo of speed and size, although I prefer speed over size.  Where has Frost said that he will only use a small, scat back type?

 

Also, sustaining drives and scoring points are not the same thing.  Sustaining drives is done to chew the clock and keep the defense off the field. Scoring points by the best teams are done with chunk plays and quick strike offenses. They aren’t taking 5-7 minutes to plod down the field, because that doesn’t always lead to points. 

[84HuskerLaw]

7 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Did I ever say anything about the single back being a smallish, scat back?  The ideal single back is a combo of speed and size, although I prefer speed over size.  Where has Frost said that he will only use a small, scat back type?

 

Also, sustaining drives and scoring points are not the same thing.  Sustaining drives is done to chew the clock and keep the defense off the field. Scoring points by the best teams are done with chunk plays and quick strike offenses. They aren’t taking 5-7 minutes to plod down the field, because that doesn’t always lead to points. 

Those plodding methodical drives are the best ideal ones that the best teams dream of.   They are will breakers.   They are dominating and over powering. Chunk plays are for the Mike Riley types.  They look good in the total yards stats but teams that aim for chunk plays tend to stall out and pass for 350 yards and score in the upper 20s.  Like NU the past decade or so.  Frost seems to be inclined to play the smaller “fast” RB and seems to recruit them too.  I like bigger RBs 6’ - 210 +  especially when u feature a QB run with non power there.  If Frost were our QB then I’d say yes - use the smaller RB.  

[ColoradoHusk]

29 minutes ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

Those plodding methodical drives are the best ideal ones that the best teams dream of.   They are will breakers.   They are dominating and over powering. Chunk plays are for the Mike Riley types.  They look good in the total yards stats but teams that aim for chunk plays tend to stall out and pass for 350 yards and score in the upper 20s.  Like NU the past decade or so.  Frost seems to be inclined to play the smaller “fast” RB and seems to recruit them too.  I like bigger RBs 6’ - 210 +  especially when u feature a QB run with non power there.  If Frost were our QB then I’d say yes - use the smaller RB.  

You can’t be any more wrong. Mike Riley was the coach who wanted plodding, slow offenses which would wind the clock down and keep his defense off the field.
 

If you look across all of college football, the best teams are scoring quickly with chunk plays out of the running and passing game.  Tom Osborne’s offense was designed to hit big plays. His outside options were the equivalent of Frost’s outside passes. Osborne has said this directly.  Osborne used tight formations, then ran outside to stretch the defense wide. Then he attacked the stretched defense with play action passes and quick fullback traps up the middle.  Nebraska beat Miami in the 1995 Orange Bowl with 3 TD chunk plays (plays longer than 10 yards). NU had big play after big play against Florida in 1996 Fiesta Bowl.

 

In Osborne’s later years, he ran the first glimpses of today’s spread offenses. Look at the offense that Osborne used with Frost to beat Washington. It was a shotgun, single back spread which created big run plays for Frost. Osborne even ran a lot of these concepts with Frazier in 1995. 

You need to get away from the old way of thinking of how a formation or personnel dictates the style of play. Ohio State, LSU, Clemson, Alabama, and Oklahoma all utilize 11 personnel and creating big plays to score points. 

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

The problem with one small scat back and a QB that is not a real run threat (AM the way he plays and is used ) is teams will just match up and never need the big guy u mention.   You have to threaten power and finesse more than just pass vs run.  You want the defense to have to struggle to substitute in Frost’s tempo game.  But if teams never need the big package cause NU never runs power = big backs + big blocking + overload formations etc) they basically go with the pass defense and dare us to run over them without our power pack.  This is what Frost lacks in my view.   I know this is rather simplistic but it’s the feel I have watching our offense struggle to sustain drives and score points.  Too little feast too much famine. 

There are many ways to skin a cat and your idea is one offensive philosophy.  That doesn't mean that's the only way Nebraska can be successful.  I'm looking for an innovative offensive philosophy that incorporates some power, some spread....but more importantly, gets the ball to the play makers in space and gives the defense a lot of things to defend and think about.  Last year we didn't have that.  That's not because last year was Frost's dream offense.  It was because we were hampered by the personal we had to run it.

 

People need to stop judging Frost's system based on one year.  It was not a great year.  But, we still had a QB with a 60% completion rate, almost even rushing yards to passing yards, 30th in the nation in rushing ypg.  We also would have had enough offense to win at least several more games if our defense and special teams were up to snuff.

 

It will continue to get better when we our WR group continues to develop along with our O line.