The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[Jason Sitoke]

1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

But with Paul that's not the case because I have seen some of what he's said on the matter and it's mostly been moronic. I haven't seen a good point from him yet.

I think this is a fairly objective piece on Paul’s exchanges with Fauci. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article250172215.html

[Jason Sitoke]

8 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

May I ask what studies are available to support any of this?

Ultimately, it’s an observation of the case data:

https://covidtracking.com/data/
 

Obviously the ‘why’ is purely speculation on my part and based on anecdotal information.  I was asked what I think, so I obliged. 

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

Ultimately, it’s an observation of the case data:

https://covidtracking.com/data/
 

Obviously the ‘why’ is purely speculation on my part and based on anecdotal information. 

 

How does this data support Paul's stance on masks? ELI5

[Moiraine]

7 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

I think this is a fairly objective piece on Paul’s exchanges with Fauci. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article250172215.html

 

 

There are only like 2 quotes from him in there. The main one that sticks out is contending people with the vaccine don't get it. In the trials people did get it, they just did not have severe symptoms, hospitalization, or death. Therefore it seems they could pass it on.

[Jason Sitoke]

1 minute ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

There are only like 2 quotes from him in there. The main one that sticks out is contending people with the vaccine don't get it. In the trials people did get it, they just did not have severe symptoms, hospitalization, or death. Therefore they can pass it on.

Agreed, if you are experiencing symptoms.  I would argue that if you’re feeling sick, mask or no mask, you shouldn’t be around others. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.com/2021/04/01/its-official-vaccinated-people-dont-transmit-covid-19/amp/

[Scarlet]

Brazilian variant wreaking havoc in BC now.  Younger people getting much more sick than before.  Reinfections are very possible with this variant..  Which makes Rand Paul's comments about immunity after Covid even more short-sighted or dare I say, wrong.

[Jason Sitoke]

6 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

How does this data support Paul's stance on masks? ELI5

Ok, you asked what I was basing MY opinion on in terms of the main causes of the surges, and I linked the data. 
 

The point Paul is making is that the data doesn’t provide a clear indication that different regional mask mandate policies yielded different results. 

[Jason Sitoke]

1 minute ago, Scarlet said:

Brazilian variant wreaking havoc in BC now.  Younger people getting much more sick than before.  Reinfections are very possible with this variant..  Which makes Rand Paul's comments about immunity after Covid even more short-sighted or dare I say, wrong.

Recent study seems to contradict what you’re saying here:  https://www.kxly.com/t-cell-recognizes-covid-variants/

[knapplc]

So a century or two of epidemiology supports mask wearing to curb the spread of contagion. And Rand Paul speaks out against that, and we're supposed to address that soberly because of what now?

 

None of this makes any sense. Have surgeons been wearing masks in vain for more than 100 years?  Has Rand Paul discovered the truth about aerosolized infection?

[Jason Sitoke]

Just now, knapplc said:

So a century or two of epidemiology supports mask wearing to curb the spread of contagion. And Rand Paul speaks out against that, and we're supposed to address that soberly because of what now?

 

None of this makes any sense. Have surgeons been wearing masks in vain for more than 100 years?  Has Rand Paul discovered the truth about aerosolized infection?

Once again, I don’t believe the argument is whether masks work. It’s whether the government was effective in persuading people to follow the rules. I have a real problem with the mask mandate in Colorado...not because masks don’t work, but because police departments openly admitted they weren’t going to enforce it. 
 

If a pandemic shows up next year, I honestly think everything should be on the table to fight it. Flattening the curve seems to have been a bit ambiguous. Total suppression might require draconian measures, but at least its plain and simple.  Not advocating for that, but it’s a way to go. 

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Jason Sitoke said:

Once again, I don’t believe the argument is whether masks work. It’s whether the government was effective in persuading people to follow the rules. I have a real problem with the mask mandate in Colorado...not because masks don’t work, but because police departments openly admitted they weren’t going to enforce it. 
 

If a pandemic shows up next year, I honestly think everything should be on the table to fight it. Flattening the curve seems to have been a bit ambiguous. Total suppression might require draconian measures, but at least its plain and simple.  Not advocating for that, but it’s a way to go. 

 

 

What does Rand Paul have to do with any of this?  

[Jason Sitoke]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

 

What does Rand Paul have to do with any of this?  

I guess I’ll spare you the trouble of going back a page...

Paul tweeted:

’Doesn’t anyone care to know if mask mandates help? The data on mask mandates actually shows an INCREASED rate of COVID cases after the mandates.’

 

He’s questioning whether mask mandates were effective.

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

I guess I’ll spare you the trouble of going back a page...

Paul tweeted:

’Doesn’t anyone care to know if mask mandates help? The data on mask mandates actually shows an INCREASED rate of COVID cases after the mandates.’

 

He’s questioning whether mask mandates were effective.

 

 

What good does that question do other than instill a mindset that masks themselves don't work? Because Paul is not advocating that anyone wears a mask, right? Did I miss his PSA on the more than 100 years of science supporting t's curb of contagion via masks?

 

How did Rand Paul help curb the spread of a virus that has killed more than half a million Americans through his area of expertise?

[Jason Sitoke]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

 

What good does that question do other than instill a mindset that masks themselves don't work? Because Paul is not advocating that anyone wears a mask, right? Did I miss his PSA on the more than 100 years of science supporting t's curb of contagion via masks?

 

How did Rand Paul help curb the spread of a virus that has killed more than half a million Americans through his area of expertise?

So because of the source, you dismiss the question out of hand?  

I see a distinction in the question between mask effectiveness and mandate effectiveness. If you don’t, then we’re probably not gonna get anywhere here in this discussion. 
 

I happen to believe that we should be able to ask these questions without being mortified about how the public message gets shaped. Is Fauci being roasted for encouraging vaccine hesitancy because he still won’t travel, saying he’s ‘still in a high risk age group’?

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Jason Sitoke said:

So because of the source, you dismiss the question out of hand?  

I see a distinction in the question between mask effectiveness and mandate effectiveness. If you don’t, then we’re probably not gonna get anywhere here in this discussion. 
 

I happen to believe that we should be able to ask these questions without being mortified about how the public message gets shaped. Is Fauci being roasted for encouraging vaccine hesitancy because he still won’t travel, saying he’s ‘still in a high risk age group’?

 

 

No, you misunderstand. You are pushing back on the condemnation of Rand Paul's role in fighting the virus. I am asking what he did to help limit its impact. Why should he not be examined with a critical eye for minimizing the effectiveness of masks? 

 

Or, if I have misunderstood, please show me/us how Dr. Paul helped mitigate the impact of this virus.