The 2024 Presidential Election- The LONG General Election

[knapplc]

13 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I didn't watch the debate.  But, from all these clips, I find it interesting that the majority of the crowd boos when criticizing Trump and when Christy is honest about Trump.

 

That's pretty telling.  Trump is the leader of the party and you should not be criticizing him in public.

 

 

 

 

 

Those audiences are hand-picked. I wouldn't be surprised if Fox didn't let Orange Man Bad's supporters in there.

 

Which, to be fair, is the majority of the Republican party. So not necessarily saying there's malfeasance there.

[TGHusker]

Who do you think 'won' the debate last night?   (Doesn't mean you support or will vote for them).

 

 

My thoughts:

Overall   Trump/MAGA wins, America Lost.   When 6 of the 8 raise their hand to support Trump as the nominee  even if convicted - America lost.  To me everything else faded into the background after that.   Mr "I stand with the Constitution" Pense even raised his hand.  The guy who  was the object of Trump's scorn could not keep his hand down.   What kind of mental/spiritual gymnastics does one need to do justify such a stance?

 

Christi on the topic:  “Whether or not you believe that the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of the president of the United States,”  

 

Putting that elephant in the room aside, my opinion: 

Nikki Haley improved her position the most and came across as reasoned and prepared. 

 

Christi gained ground and showed consistency of thought on the legal issues related to Trump and Ukraine

 

Pense - I'm getting tired of his slow overly measured talking style.  He comes across as an overbearing parent.  But generally came across as knowledgeable.  He had perhaps the best moment of the night when all the candidates were asked if they felt Pence did the right thing on J6.  Chrisi was very forward in his praise of Pences action. 

All but 2 were in wholehearted agreement -  DeSantis hedged his answer & begrudgingly gave support.  VR: 100% on Trump side (all I need to know about that guy). 

 

DeSantis - lost ground.  He had the most to lose and he did - he didn't sound presidential or mature and is the opposite of Pense - unmeasured in his responses

 

Tim Scott - I think he'd be a great neighbor.  Wonderful guy - but wall flowers have more passion/initiative.  He was too polite.  He'd probably be a good VP. 

 

VR:  I agree with Christi's quote below.  He his has red meat talking points.  Sounds good in a 20 second sound bite but no depth.  I think Pense and Christi and Haley did a good job of pointing out the lack of depth with VR.  He was called a rookie, young, inexperienced, and all of it is true.  He is a Trump want-a-be.  He was irritating.  He had the most to gain as an unknown - and he probably gained support from the MAGA crowd.

 

ND and ARK governors - just drop out of the race now please.  

 

I think Chrisi had the line of the night  I like this one (which I 100% agree with):  “I’ve had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like ChatGPT standing up here,” 

 

[TGHusker]

19 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I didn't watch the debate.  But, from all these clips, I find it interesting that the majority of the crowd boos when criticizing Trump and when Christy is honest about Trump.

 

That's pretty telling.  Trump is the leader of the party and you should not be criticizing him in public.

 

 

That was a good moment for Christie as he puts down the rookie trump supporting VR. 

[BigRedBuster]

He's so weak he has to look around to see what everyone else is doing before he raises his hand.

 

 

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

Who do you think 'won' the debate last night?   (Doesn't mean you support or will vote for them).

 

 

My thoughts:

Overall   Trump/MAGA wins, America Lost.   When 6 of the 8 raise their hand to support Trump as the nominee  even if convicted - America lost.  To me everything else faded into the background after that.   Mr "I stand with the Constitution" Pense even raised his hand.  The guy who  was the object of Trump's scorn could not keep his hand down.   What kind of mental/spiritual gymnastics does one need to do justify such a stance?

 

Christi on the topic:  “Whether or not you believe that the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of the president of the United States,”  

 

Putting that elephant in the room aside, my opinion: 

Nikki Haley improved her position the most and came across as reasoned and prepared. 

 

Christi gained ground and showed consistency of thought on the legal issues related to Trump and Ukraine

 

Pense - I'm getting tired of his slow overly measured talking style.  He comes across as an overbearing parent.  But generally came across as knowledgeable.  He had perhaps the best moment of the night when all the candidates were asked if they felt Pence did the right thing on J6.  Chrisi was very forward in his praise of Pences action. 

All but 2 were in wholehearted agreement -  DeSantis hedged his answer & begrudgingly gave support.  VR: 100% on Trump side (all I need to know about that guy). 

 

DeSantis - lost ground.  He had the most to lose and he did - he didn't sound presidential or mature and is the opposite of Pense - unmeasured in his responses

 

Tim Scott - I think he'd be a great neighbor.  Wonderful guy - but wall flowers have more passion/initiative.  He was too polite.  He'd probably be a good VP. 

 

VR:  I agree with Christi's quote below.  He his has red meat talking points.  Sounds good in a 20 second sound bite but no depth.  I think Pense and Christi and Haley did a good job of pointing out the lack of depth with VR.  He was called a rookie, young, inexperienced, and all of it is true.  He is a Trump want-a-be.  He was irritating.  He had the most to gain as an unknown - and he probably gained support from the MAGA crowd.

 

ND and ARK governors - just drop out of the race now please.  

 

I think Chrisi had the line of the night  I like this one (which I 100% agree with):  “I’ve had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like ChatGPT standing up here,” 

 

Haley, Burgum (though he didn’t get much time and still looks a bit uneasy on a big stage) and DeSantis had the best performances hands down.  Not much of a close second tier but I guess Vivek got out of it what he wanted which was air time and to be a part of the discussion.  

Pence, not Pense, I would agree with you points about his too slow of a delivery and talking down to people.  he didn’t really help himself a whole lot but didn’t really hurt his position either.  Just kinda blah.  
 

Christie has never had a real chance but he is accomplishing what he really wants and that’s to get hits on DJT and maybe be a VP or in an admin of someone else which is good.  
 

Tim Scott I think is decent on policy but can’t find a way to get traction. 
 

Asa sucks.  Moving on 

 

 

[TGHusker]

27 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

He's so weak he has to look around to see what everyone else is doing before he raises his hand.

 

 

I saw that while watching and thought  - how pathetic can he be?  Overall - that was a disqualifying answer for all 6 who raised their hand. 

How can you have any moral authority at all if you say you would support a convicted felon for president?  Answer: YOU CAN'T.  Only Asa Hutchenson and Chris Christi answered the question correctly and honestly.   I say honestly, because you go to know that the others did it  out of political expediency.   DeSantis makes that very clear in his clownish response.  

[BigRedBuster]

FYI...I switched my vote in the poll to this guy.  Hurd isn't going anywhere and this guy speaks the truth and isn't a scared party hack.

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

It's not a perfect comparison, but in 2008 John McCain was playing the Chris Christie role, the pragmatic realist on a stage full of candidates leaning hard right and tossing red meat. The early money, publicity and consultants were circling around the Guliani, Romney, Huckabee, and even Ron Paul camps, and despite name recognition, McCain was falling out of relevance. Most people called Paul and Romney the winners of the first debate (polls had Paul the winner of virtually every debate, often by a large margin)

 

During that first debate, McCain was asked if he believed in evolution, and discovered it was risky to answer "yes." Three of the candidates proudly declared they did not believe in evolution. McCain was ostracized in a later debate for opposing enhanced interrogation techniques; the crowd and candidates were much more pro-torture. 

 

I wouldn't put any money on Christie pulling a McCain, but he might find more of an audience if he sticks with it. 

[Archy1221]

Does anyone else believe it to be counterproductive to have an audience at these debates.   All they do is distract and take time away from candidates answering or moderators  asking questions.   

[Guy Chamberlin]

4 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Does anyone else believe it to be counterproductive to have an audience at these debates.   All they do is distract and take time away from candidates answering or moderators  asking questions.   

 

The audience tends to be stacked -- or just louder - for a specific candidate. Usually folks with a maverick following like Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, or Donald Trump's designated proxy, Vivek. It does skew the perspective. 

[Archy1221]

10 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

During that first debate, McCain was asked if he believed in evolution, and discovered it was risky to answer "yes." Three of the candidates proudly declared they did not believe in evolution.

Two of those candidates, McCain and Huckabee, pretty much ended up with the same conclusions post debate.   It was a silly question to ask in that format because it didn’t allow for much time to expand on what was meant by the question.   

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

The audience tends to be stacked -- or just louder - for a specific candidate. Usually folks with a maverick following like Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, or Donald Trump's designated proxy, Vivek. It does skew the perspective. 

I would prefer no audience and let the candidates speak and the moderators control the situation more.   FoxNews did a pretty awful job last night IMO, and the moderators weren’t helped at all when they weakly tried to control the talking time and the audience keeps booing or cheering or whatever and it made that job a lot harder for Brett and Martha.   

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Two of those candidates, McCain and Huckabee, pretty much ended up with the same conclusions post debate.   It was a silly question to ask in that format because it didn’t allow for much time to expand on what was meant by the question.   

 

I'm not going to defend stupid moderator questions and restrictive debate formats, but asking whether you believe in evolution warrants a direct answer, and that answer probably tells you more than several minutes of justification.

 

That same debate John McCain felt obliged to add that he "saw the hand of God" when hiking the Grand Canyon at sunset. Huckabee, Brownback and Tancredo went on record as NOT believing in evolution. 

[Archy1221]

16 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I'm not going to defend stupid moderator questions and restrictive debate formats, but asking whether you believe in evolution warrants a direct answer, and that answer probably tells you more than several minutes of justification.

 

That same debate John McCain felt obliged to add that he "saw the hand of God" when hiking the Grand Canyon at sunset. Huckabee, Brownback and Tancredo went on record as NOT believing in evolution. 

Huckabee went on record post debate to say he did believe in evolution but here was a creator that started the process.  
 

McCain ended up where Huckabee was.  Who knows about Brownback and who cares, he sucks.  Tancredo……did anyone really even know or care about him.  

[TGHusker]

5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

FYI...I switched my vote in the poll to this guy.  Hurd isn't going anywhere and this guy speaks the truth and isn't a scared party hack.

 

 

I did the same.  The most important issue we have facing us - he's the only one standing consistently on the right side of the issue.   How can the others say Pence did the right thing and then say they would vote for a felon if   when Trump is convicted?   Cowards.