What is the future of the Republican Party?

[Ulty]

7 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

We know, yet in an earlier post you made a claim it was one of the most read, greatest books when it was actually the graphic novel being spoken about and not The Diary of Anne Frank

Here is what I actually said, acknowledging that it was adapted from one of the most well known books: "This is one of the best known books, ever, about an extremely important topic, adapted into a graphic novel format." The content came directly from the original diary.

 

9 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Again, what’s the lesson plan with what was shown?  Certainly not the realities of the holocaust like you suggest above?

I have no idea what the lesson plan was and neither do you. The hysteria seems to be stemming from a single page, but I would be very surprised if the lesson plan centered around this one page. I might surmise that the purpose of teaching the book altogether was to explore the thoughts and feelings of a middle school aged girl while going through such a harrowing experience, presented in a way that middle school students could identify with. But that's just a guess.

 

14 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

The teacher should not have been fired.  ...
I don’t believe the passage is molestation

 Okay then.

 

15 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Pretty open and shut without hysteria from me.  

15 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

you had to go Indiana Jones and name calling while claiming something I’m not claiming (banning books)

But it was certainly fueled by hysteria. Teachers make questionable pedagogical choices all the time. I'm sure that neither you nor I would choose to teach Anne Frank in the same manner that this teacher did. But the faux outrage over this issue is not driven by pedagogy, it is driven by hysteria, similar to books being removed all across the country for simply discussing race, sex, or LGBTQ issues. You did not directly advocate for banning books, yet you posted note that claimed that the book depicted molestation and that the teacher asked students to discuss molestation. You presented this as "relevant context" even though the claims were hyperbolic and untrue. Posts like this attempt to justify the horrible reaction from the school district. Even you agree that the outcome was ridiculous. 

 

Now, the debate about the appropriateness of the book is reasonable. Your opinion on that matter is not completely off (I disagree, as the content was written by a 14 year old and believe the content is perfectly appropriate for 14 year olds), but again, the main issue to me is a teacher getting fired for this and how the right wingers are justifying it.

 

23 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

cause you couldn’t handle a debate

[Archy1221]

26 minutes ago, Ulty said:

I have no idea what the lesson plan was and neither do you.

Yet you are getting hysterical about another person pointing out their view of it’s inappropriate for that age group.  
 

27 minutes ago, Ulty said:

presented in a way that middle school students could identify with

I’ll have to ask my daughter if her or her friends identified with a friend saying that their boobs should be on display as a show of friendship while she was in middle school and if that would be an important topic to discuss.  I would surmise not but we shall see.  
 

31 minutes ago, Ulty said:

 

Now, the debate about the appropriateness of the book is reasonable. Your opinion on that matter is not completely off (I disagree, as the content was written by a 14 year old and believe the content is perfectly appropriate for 14 year olds), but again, the main issue to me is a teacher getting fired for this and how the right wingers are justifying it.

I agree it’s reasonable, which is why I posted about Ben Collins and yes we both agree the teacher shouldn’t be fired, just coached up a bit on how to teach or move to a higher grade level.   
 

 

serious question here as I get curious about seemingly little things sometimes.  Why do you use an old Greek term almost no one uses outside of some academics instead of just using the words teach or teaching that most people reading would understand? 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Molestation? Whoa. That was a leap. 

 

If someone includes a passage written by an eight-grader that makes them more human and relatable to fellow eight -graders it only helps the true story it tells. That was PG-13 stuff and everyone knows it. 

 

If you are worried about snickering middle school boys, you probably shouldn't be teaching or running a middle school. 

 

The over-reaction makes America look stupid. Guess we are.  

[Ulty]

7 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Yet you are getting hysterical about another person pointing out their view of it’s inappropriate for that age group.

No, I think I said previously that it's fair to have differing thoughts on the appropriateness of it. However, I definitely am getting worked up on the frequency and normalization of censorship and the suppression of uncomfortable topics. We should talk about these things more at school and at home. But too many people are scared or offended by discussing things like sex and race, even though kids are actually ready for it and need these conversations sooner than most adults realize.

 

11 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I’ll have to ask my daughter if her or her friends identified with a friend saying that their boobs should be on display as a show of friendship while she was in middle school and if that would be an important topic to discuss.  I would surmise not but we shall see.  

Very tactful of you. I would guess that if this is how you talk to your daughters about sexuality, they will certainly not be inclined to engage in a healthy dialogue. How about you zoom about a little bit and question whether or not middle school girls would be curious about sexuality. Maybe have your wife ask them instead (unless she is one of the Moms For Liberty).

 

15 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

serious question here as I get curious about seemingly little things sometimes.  Why do you use an old Greek term almost no one uses outside of some academics instead of just using the words teach or teaching that most people reading would understand?

What, pedagogy? Fair question, but I didn't realize it was such an obscure word. My wife is an educational researcher, and I have heard and read the word "pedagogy" in my household thousands of times over the years. I've also written several investigative reports involving faculty members (germane to this conversation, as I have actually had to investigate claims of discrimination or harassment based on the content of an instructor's curriculum) and have used "pedagogy" or "pedagogical" in context for those reports. Although I definitely agree it is better to use clear, simple language whenever possible. 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

9 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 

I’ll have to ask my daughter if her or her friends identified with a friend saying that their boobs should be on display as a show of friendship while she was in middle school and if that would be an important topic to discuss.  I would surmise not but we shall see.  
 

 

It wasn't merely a show of friendship. One adolescent girl desperately wanted to kiss her friend, but didn't know how to go about it, and ultimately didn't. I'll surmise something like this happened at your daughter's middle school slumber parties, like every other adolescent slumber party, although it may not have been talked about.

 

So when it is talked about in a work of literature, many young women and men are thrilled to realize "that is/was me!" and that they are not weird or alone. Even Anne Frank, the incredible hero of this story, had the desires and conflicts of other adolescents. The Diary of Anne Frank is about more than attics and Nazis.

 

The overreaction is extremely sad. 

 

 

[Ulty]

1 hour ago, teachercd said:

It falls under the "definition" of SA

No. 

 

If I am a Title IX Coordinator at a school, and someone brings me this book, opens up to that page, and says they would like to make a sexual assault complaint, this is the response I would give:

 

[teachercd]

2 minutes ago, Ulty said:

No. 

 

If I am a Title IX Coordinator at a school, and someone brings me this book, opens up to that page, and says they would like to make a sexual assault complaint, this is the response I would give:

 

 

Not the book.  The action in the book, which you said the teacher would then have to explain.  So now you have a teacher that has to explain that it is either "okay" to do that or "not okay" and either way, that teacher is wrong.  

 

I agree about it not being SA, I keep agreeing with you, over and over.  I 100% AGREE THAT IT IS NOT SA!  

 

[Archy1221]

10 minutes ago, Ulty said:

30 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 

Very tactful of you. I would guess that if this is how you talk to your daughters about sexuality, they will certainly not be inclined to engage in a healthy dialogue.

Being open and honest and upfront at home is no longer healthy dialogue?  BTW we’ve always had healthy dialogue about any discussion but thanks for parenting advice

 

10 minutes ago, Ulty said:

How about you zoom about a little bit and question whether or not middle school girls would be curious about sexuality. Maybe have your wife ask them instead (unless she is one of the Moms For Liberty).

Well, having had three discussions already about sexuality at home, yes in MS for all three, soooo I think I’ve zoomed out enough.
 

[Ulty]

3 hours ago, teachercd said:

by definition this would fall under SA.

 

1 hour ago, teachercd said:

No no no.  I am saying IT IS NOT SA. 

 

1 hour ago, teachercd said:

It falls under the "definition" of SA

 

35 minutes ago, teachercd said:

I 100% AGREE THAT IT IS NOT SA!  

 

[teachercd]

4 minutes ago, Ulty said:

 

 

 

 

What are you confused about?  By definition it falls under SA.

 

I DON'T think it is SA.  Just like I did not think it was SA when that kid hit the other kids butt while goofing around in the locker room. 

 

But what is depicted in that graphic novel is, by letter of the law, a form of SA.  How do you not understand the difference?  

 

You even said it!  That is what makes it hard, now you want teachers to use that as a teaching moment?  I mean, come on.

 

By definition speeding is agains the law most of us speed and don't think of it as being illegal to go 5 over.  

[Lorewarn]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

Yet you are getting hysterical

 

 

calm down

[teachercd]

2 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

calm down

Ever say that to a girl when she is "not mad"

 

Oh my god...it is pure funniness.

[Archy1221]

2 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

calm down

[Ulty]

9 minutes ago, teachercd said:

What are you confused about?  By definition it falls under SA.

 

 

But what is depicted in that graphic novel is, by letter of the law, a form of SA.  How do you not understand the difference? 

No it is not, stop saying that. I'm quite familiar with sexual assault. You're out of your element, Donnie.

 

Maybe it would be an unwanted advance, and therefore a form of harassment (but not on its own, would be dependent on other factors)?

[teachercd]

1 minute ago, Ulty said:

No it is not, stop saying that. I'm quite familiar with sexual assault. You're out of your element, Donnie.

 

Maybe it would be an unwanted advance, and therefore a form of harassment (but not on its own, would be dependent on other factors)?

Okay...so we agree it is a book depicting sexual harassment.  

 

In a comic book about Anne Frank.  And then you want teachers to use that as a teaching moment to discuss with 8th graders if it is sexual harassment or not.  Again, seems like a lot to toss on the teacher.