QB Race

[BigWillie]

 

Game changer vs game manager is one argument, but IMO it's separate from running QB vs pocket passer. Would Bo consider Sam Bradford a game manager to T. Pryor's game-changing abilities? I guess my point is that it doesn't take a running QB to be a game changer - just a good QB. Again with the bias, but I think I'm more on the conservative side here. If Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady are just expert game managers, then that's my preference out of a QB.

 

zoogies, I am one of Zac's biggest defenders on this board mainly for the fact I think he takes insanely too much crap for how our offense last year. But making the connection of Zac as a 'game manager' to Sam Bradford as a 'game manager' is a HUGE stretch. If we had a QB even close to Sam's abilities, this QB contest would have been over months ago.

 

Zac IS the best passer we have on this team. Zac does have a really strong arm. Zac's biggest issue is trusting himself enough as a player to let his gifted arm do work. He doesn't have enough faith in his accuracy to try to fit balls in tight windows, and instead will continue to look for wide open receivers.

 

That's what make Zac a 'game manager' because he will not make the silly turnover, because he will not force passes. But at the same time, you have to deal with him not making big plays either because he is so passive.

 

OTOH, Bradford is like Aikman with his accuracy. Kid was scary with how pinpoint his passes were and how much faith that kid had in his arm.

 

But style of QBs is really irregardless. Bo just prefers a mobile QB because he feels it opens so much more in the way of forcing a defense into bad situations. When you force that extra safety to creep closer to the line to prepare for a mobile QB, the opportunity for big plays open up. Bo loves that flexibility a mobile QB gives.

 

I guess this is why it wouldn't make sense to me at all for Taylor to be the option this year. If it's a given that he's going to make mistakes - and if we have a good option whose only fault is his style of play is more in tune with the OC than with the HC's future vision - why not let Taylor mature for a year and get some game experience without putting everything on his shoulders? The fanbase, for sure, will not be patient, and it just doesn't strike me as the type of situation where we should be taking all the mistakes and building slowly with a freshman QB.

 

I'm nearing the point where I am almost convinced Taylor will start Saturday. But my biggest fear is that Taylor gets baited into a few INTs. Then a slew of people will chime in ..

 

"We cannot have silly turnover like that. If Zac can manage the ball better, that is who we need."

 

If it doesn't happen this weekend, it WILL happen quite a few times this year. But what can anyone do? Those same people will complain regardless and always think the backup is the better QB. It is how it is.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Taylor, at all. But I'm going to cheer the kid on regardless. I know he's going to have his moments, but he's a freshman, and I think we all should temper our expectations on him.

[zoogs]

 

I'm actually pretty sad to hear all of this.

 

Let your offensive coaches do their job.

 

I love Bo's defensive acumen, but this sort of thing is really hard to get on board with.

 

You cannot be a head coach if you just defer. If he respects his coach's opinion, and they know he respects them, he doesn't have to agree with them. His job is to run this team.

 

As long as there exists mutual respect, that's not a problem.

 

I agree with this. After thinking it over, it's not Bo pulling rank that I'm not that stoked about. It's more, I don't trust Bo's judgment on this over Watson's. Who am I to say, right? - it's just, Bo will have to overcome his reputation as a 'just defense' guy. He hasn't yet in my eyes. For instance, can you imagine Frank Solich telling Bo who his starting free safety should be in 2003? It's just a matter of me not agreeing with a certain potential decision and thinking, the offensive coaches might know better.

 

But you're absolutely right, of course. It's not a problem. I just think it could be a mistake.

 

But it probably won't be. In my eyes though, these are the two stat lines I imagine if either QB takes the reins for the whole season:

 

Zac Lee: 207/339, 2680 yds, 20 TD, 9 INT; 55 rush, 215 yards, 0 TD, 2FL (sacks not included in rushing total)

Taylor Martinez: 141/272, 1750 yds, 12 TD, 10 INT; 149 rush, 700 yards, 6 TD, 4 FL

 

 

I'd want to go with option A. Of course, these imaginary statlines are probably wildly inaccurate.

[zoogs]

 

zoogies, I am one of Zac's biggest defenders on this board mainly for the fact I think he takes insanely too much crap for how our offense last year. But making the connection of Zac as a 'game manager' to Sam Bradford as a 'game manager' is a HUGE stretch. If we had a QB even close to Sam's abilities, this QB contest would have been over months ago.

...

But style of QBs is really irregardless. Bo just prefers a mobile QB because he feels it opens so much more in the way of forcing a defense into bad situations. When you force that extra safety to creep closer to the line to prepare for a mobile QB, the opportunity for big plays open up. Bo loves that flexibility a mobile QB gives.

 

Oops, I didn't mean to make the connection in that way. I was making a case in general for the non-"option QB" style of QB that seems to have fallen out of favor. I guess what I don't understand is why Bo wants only a certain kind of QB, to the extent that we would turn away a potential top talent at QB simply because he doesn't make as many plays with his feet. I was thinking that we would get QBs of various styles and pick the best one, no matter if he's fast or not. But I see your point.

 

Zac IS the best passer we have on this team. Zac does have a really strong arm. Zac's biggest issue is trusting himself enough as a player to let his gifted arm do work. He doesn't have enough faith in his accuracy to try to fit balls in tight windows, and instead will continue to look for wide open receivers.

 

That's what make Zac a 'game manager' because he will not make the silly turnover, because he will not force passes. But at the same time, you have to deal with him not making big plays either because he is so passive.

 

OTOH, Bradford is like Aikman with his accuracy. Kid was scary with how pinpoint his passes were and how much faith that kid had in his arm.

 

Thanks for the breakdown; very enlightening.

 

 

 

I'm nearing the point where I am almost convinced Taylor will start Saturday. But my biggest fear is that Taylor gets baited into a few INTs. Then a slew of people will chime in ..

 

"We cannot have silly turnover like that. If Zac can manage the ball better, that is who we need."

 

If it doesn't happen this weekend, it WILL happen quite a few times this year. But what can anyone do? Those same people will complain regardless and always think the backup is the better QB. It is how it is.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Taylor, at all. But I'm going to cheer the kid on regardless. I know he's going to have his moments, but he's a freshman, and I think we all should temper our expectations on him.

 

Curious, what are your thoughts for wins this season (with either QB)? Would it be different scenarios? Since a lot of people seem to think we'll be making a title run. Going to be tough with a freshman QB, or going to be tough either way?

[bshirt]

Hey, it's ok zoogies.

 

We're "all" passionate about the BigRedMachine and want extreme success. We just sometimes disagree about the best way to get there. We're on the same team compadre'!

 

You know damn well we'll all be buying each other 30 beers and having a blast watching NU destroy the BongHorns (again) in the ccg no matter who the qb is.

[knapplc]

You know damn well we'll all be buying each other 30 beers and having a blast watching NU destroy the BongHorns (again) in the ccg no matter who the qb is.

 

Absolutely.

[brophog]

Some of these statements about Bo being paranoid or operating in some kind of underhanded fashion to that regard really bother me. In past years, it was always something else.......the 'Blackshirts' was a big one.......everyone just got in a fit about when they were going to be given out. This year, it's QB. It's always something that gets latched onto that everyone needs to know about and blows into this great big, ground breaking issue.

 

There are several positions we don't know who the starter will be. QB is an important position, and before it is all said and done we'll have that answer. We've seen this staff fiddle with positions throughout the season before and the QB position may just be in a such a shape this year that it can't be completely determined coming out of camp. That happens sometimes. Sometimes you come out of camp in such a hurry to name one guy that you make a mistake and feel obligated to stay with it longer than you want. When you name a guy really early, it's hard to foster competition, particularly if you name him and then proceed to treat him like that guy. Everyone begins settling into their role and you can lose the opportunity for that #2 guy to fill the potential he may have had otherwise. There are advantages and disadvantages to waiting.

 

The reason we didn't have these issues the past few years is because there was no mystery.......there was no depth. When Bo says we're built on a foundation of competition, that's what he means. This isn't coachspeak. This should be the way it really is, and yet there are so, so many people who are name calling out of nothing more than their own greed. It's not about the program, it is about them and what they feel they are obligated to know and on what timeframe.......and that's just petty and unnecessary.

 

None of these things Bo has done that has gotten this backlash has been for anything but the program and the welfare of these athletes. He's not obtuse, he knows these things are being said, and yet he goes up there to field questions every time standing behind the same message, with the same purpose in mind. That's not easy. It would be a whole lot easier to just name that starter and let that player field that avalanche......but he doesn't. He takes it on the chin for what he feels is the best interest of the program. He wants to sell that message to his players that it really is all about competition and every day is an evaluation. Nobody is a finished product and you can be replaced at any time. That's what he believes in, and that's how he's going to build his program. If a media member or fan can't accept that, and they want to put their interests ahead of the program, then he's got to take the steps necessary to protect the program and its athletes.

 

That's all I'm going to say on that.

[n.e.husker]

That's all I'm going to say on that.

 

Forest Gump, is that you. Couldnt help it.

 

I agree with you, Bo will do whats best. We will support him no matter who plays.

[bshirt]

Some of these statements about Bo being paranoid or operating in some kind of underhanded fashion to that regard really bother me. In past years, it was always something else.......the 'Blackshirts' was a big one.......everyone just got in a fit about when they were going to be given out. This year, it's QB. It's always something that gets latched onto that everyone needs to know about and blows into this great big, ground breaking issue.

 

There are several positions we don't know who the starter will be. QB is an important position, and before it is all said and done we'll have that answer. We've seen this staff fiddle with positions throughout the season before and the QB position may just be in a such a shape this year that it can't be completely determined coming out of camp. That happens sometimes. Sometimes you come out of camp in such a hurry to name one guy that you make a mistake and feel obligated to stay with it longer than you want. When you name a guy really early, it's hard to foster competition, particularly if you name him and then proceed to treat him like that guy. Everyone begins settling into their role and you can lose the opportunity for that #2 guy to fill the potential he may have had otherwise. There are advantages and disadvantages to waiting.

 

The reason we didn't have these issues the past few years is because there was no mystery.......there was no depth. When Bo says we're built on a foundation of competition, that's what he means. This isn't coachspeak. This should be the way it really is, and yet there are so, so many people who are name calling out of nothing more than their own greed. It's not about the program, it is about them and what they feel they are obligated to know and on what timeframe.......and that's just petty and unnecessary.

 

None of these things Bo has done that has gotten this backlash has been for anything but the program and the welfare of these athletes. He's not obtuse, he knows these things are being said, and yet he goes up there to field questions every time standing behind the same message, with the same purpose in mind. That's not easy. It would be a whole lot easier to just name that starter and let that player field that avalanche......but he doesn't. He takes it on the chin for what he feels is the best interest of the program. He wants to sell that message to his players that it really is all about competition and every day is an evaluation. Nobody is a finished product and you can be replaced at any time. That's what he believes in, and that's how he's going to build his program. If a media member or fan can't accept that, and they want to put their interests ahead of the program, then he's got to take the steps necessary to protect the program and its athletes.

 

That's all I'm going to say on that.

 

 

Yet another excellent post and good read. Thank you sir.

[Enhance]

Can we all do this, and drop the "T-Magic" name? It sounds really douchey....

 

I'm not a fan of it either, but I'm pretty sure the players are the ones who started the T-Magic thing. I could be wrong though.

[BigWillie]

 

Oops, I didn't mean to make the connection in that way. I was making a case in general for the non-"option QB" style of QB that seems to have fallen out of favor. I guess what I don't understand is why Bo wants only a certain kind of QB, to the extent that we would turn away a potential top talent at QB simply because he doesn't make as many plays with his feet. I was thinking that we would get QBs of various styles and pick the best one, no matter if he's fast or not. But I see your point.

 

Really, they won't turn top pocket passers away because they simply will not recruit them regardless.

 

And really, true pocket passers are becoming less and less common. Coaches from pee-wee to HS all have the same mindset anymore - take your best athlete and put him at QB. More and more you are finding QBs who have little clue on the passing game, while finding kids who are simply great athletes.

 

Alot of that can be attributed to college coaches as well, since so many are going to spread option attacks.

 

 

Curious, what are your thoughts for wins this season (with either QB)? Would it be different scenarios? Since a lot of people seem to think we'll be making a title run. Going to be tough with a freshman QB, or going to be tough either way?

 

TBH, Zac gets a raw deal from the fans and the coaches. Fans think he is awful, even though he played through injuries. Coaches think he is soft, even though he played through injuries. It's as if everyone expected All-Conference production from a beaten down man.

 

I think Zac could be a solid QB, given the FULL opportunity to play QB. I'm not talking about token starts where he is looking over his shoulder constantly either. Easily would expect 10 wins out of the team with him under the helm, if he was given that opportunity.

 

With Taylor, I know he's going to make a ton of plays. But I know he's going to make a ton of bad plays as well that will put us in holes. He's going to be a freshman, and he's going to play like one. In a year where we should expect a ton from this team, do we want to let a freshman be a freshman at the most important position on the field?

 

No matter who is picked, the grass will always be greener. Taylor will make mistakes and people will want Zac for that reason. Zac will not create huge plays consistently, so people will call or Taylor's big play ability. No matter what, people will complain.

 

Personally, I'd use the early season to let Zac build off that 'Zona game. He's the QB we all should want going up to Seattle to square off with Locker. He's been to Columbia in horrible conditions, to Blacksburg, a B12 championship and a bowl game. Given that experience, he would figure to be our best option to get this team where it needs to go for this year. But that's only my opinion.

[HuskerNCo]

Oops, I didn't mean to make the connection in that way. I was making a case in general for the non-"option QB" style of QB that seems to have fallen out of favor. I guess what I don't understand is why Bo wants only a certain kind of QB, to the extent that we would turn away a potential top talent at QB simply because he doesn't make as many plays with his feet. I was thinking that we would get QBs of various styles and pick the best one, no matter if he's fast or not. But I see your point.

 

Really, they won't turn top pocket passers away because they simply will not recruit them regardless.

 

And really, true pocket passers are becoming less and less common. Coaches from pee-wee to HS all have the same mindset anymore - take your best athlete and put him at QB. More and more you are finding QBs who have little clue on the passing game, while finding kids who are simply great athletes.

 

Alot of that can be attributed to college coaches as well, since so many are going to spread option attacks.

 

 

Curious, what are your thoughts for wins this season (with either QB)? Would it be different scenarios? Since a lot of people seem to think we'll be making a title run. Going to be tough with a freshman QB, or going to be tough either way?

 

TBH, Zac gets a raw deal from the fans and the coaches. Fans think he is awful, even though he played through injuries. Coaches think he is soft, even though he played through injuries. It's as if everyone expected All-Conference production from a beaten down man.

 

I think Zac could be a solid QB, given the FULL opportunity to play QB. I'm not talking about token starts where he is looking over his shoulder constantly either. Easily would expect 10 wins out of the team with him under the helm, if he was given that opportunity.

 

With Taylor, I know he's going to make a ton of plays. But I know he's going to make a ton of bad plays as well that will put us in holes. He's going to be a freshman, and he's going to play like one. In a year where we should expect a ton from this team, do we want to let a freshman be a freshman at the most important position on the field?

 

No matter who is picked, the grass will always be greener. Taylor will make mistakes and people will want Zac for that reason. Zac will not create huge plays consistently, so people will call or Taylor's big play ability. No matter what, people will complain.

 

Personally, I'd use the early season to let Zac build off that 'Zona game. He's the QB we all should want going up to Seattle to square off with Locker. He's been to Columbia in horrible conditions, to Blacksburg, a B12 championship and a bowl game. Given that experience, he would figure to be our best option to get this team where it needs to go for this year. But that's only my opinion.

 

 

 

Well BigWillie, I'm with you for all the reasons you posted above. Can't wait for the meltdown that will happen when T-Magic-if he starts- fails to meet expectations. Me, I'm just ready for some Husker football. Go Big Red!!!!! Oh, and thank you for all your insight and information. I like reading what you post.

 

 

[Husker_x]

If the decision were mine, I would also pick Lee. I can't maintain honesty and say I'm not excited to see what Taylor can do, but I'm staring at a schedule ripe for the picking for a title run. We have what should be a premier defense, a nice trio of running backs, experienced receivers, arguably the deepest line in a decade, and a chip on our shoulder. The one thing you need the quarterback to do is not throw games. Zac played lights out against 'Zona. He rushed well, passed well, and had enough help to make enough plays to roll a team that had a respectable defense.

 

To put it very simply: Who here thinks a title run is possible with a redshirt freshman QB?

 

Now if the running game steps up and the defense stays somewhere in the neighborhood of where it was last year, you might still see a BCS run with a young guy at the helm, but I do not like the idea of rolling the dice when there is a very realistic path to the MNC. I trust the staff and their decision. I don't think Bo would sacrifice this season for the future, but nobody knows how this kid is going to preform on the road or when everything is on the line. With Lee, at least you know what you have. You know he's capable of making plays when he's sort-of healthy. For me, I'm not a gambler. I bet on what I have. I still find a way to get Martinez on the field this year––no reason to waste that kind of athlete. Unless we're all vastly underestimating just how explosive this kid is, I don't see the logic in giving him the nod.

[GSG]

Can we all do this, and drop the "T-Magic" name? It sounds really douchey....

 

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[RtRock084]

Whoever Bo chooses, can we please assume that,

 

 

A. Bo is closer to the situation that anyone, and

 

B. Bo understands football better than any of us,

 

 

 

and unite behind him?

 

It's the kind of fan we huskers supposedly are, and I believe we are the best fans in college football.

 

Even if it is Taylor and he doesn't perform well, we owe Bo and the team our loyalty and class that makes our tradition so important to all of us. My parents were a part of that tradition and It's up to us to make sure it continues.

 

Since this season is out last in the Big 12, it's a good time to remember who we are and how we got here.

 

GBR.

[GMoose]

Whoever Bo chooses, can we please assume that,

 

 

A. Bo is closer to the situation that anyone, and

 

B. Bo understands football better than any of us,

 

 

 

and unite behind him?

 

It's the kind of fan we huskers supposedly are, and I believe we are the best fans in college football.

 

Even if it is Taylor and he doesn't perform well, we owe Bo and the team our loyalty and class that makes our tradition so important to all of us. My parents were a part of that tradition and It's up to us to make sure it continues.

 

Since this season is out last in the Big 12, it's a good time to remember who we are and how we got here.

 

GBR.

I think I know just as much about football as Bo...especially defense