QB Race

[Glendower]

This discussion is really interesting and some veins in it are awfully strange. As someone else point out, if he "got screwed" that means that he was bumped back for reasons other than that he wasn't the best. That would mean that Bo Pelini and or Shawn Watson, adult men who get paid a lot to head a football team consisting of adolescents and young men, burdened with strong demands of success, would risk their season just to stick it to a college student for completely unclear reasons (e.g. Bo doesn't like him)? Does anyone else feel that that line of reasoning and set of assumptions are totally absurd and bordering on insane? The best explanation in here for how he may or may not have gotten screwed is that he didn't get snaps in his underclassman days and didn't get a chance to learn the complex system. But the idea that Bo would hate him and tell Watson to bump him to third string is just crazy when you consider how much of Pelini's and Watson's future ride on the success of the team.

 

The same thing goes for the other side of the same coin, though, that Lee is somehow owed something by the coaching staff and should get played regardless simply because of his seniority. I don't doubt that it would absolutely suck to be passed over by younger players, but just as I find it difficult to believe that the coaches would be petty and punish the team and themselves because a player is, what, arrogant? Unlikable? I don't know... just as I don't believe that, I also would be extremely disappointed if they played someone who was less qualified just because the staff like a guy. They get paid to be and act like professionals and not run some kind of Feelgoodery. They should work their butts off to refine every ounce of potential into practiced talent, and if they fail to do that, then, yes, they are "screwing" their players. But if they do their jobs, the players show up and do theirs, and some players, through a combination of practice, natural talent, and other characteristics are better, then it's up to them to fairly evaluate the players and put them where they belong.

 

This current staff hasn't given me much/any reason to believe that they would play a subjective game of favorites/least favorites just to fulfill some petty impulses. That being said, I don't think that they're robots and that they do have emotions that might lead to poor judgment from time to time, but bumping someone from first to (what appears to be) third string? That doesn't seem like a decision that would be made by a single person or made lightly.

 

So, in short (maybe I could put a *skip to summary* link at the top ) at this point, I believe that they made their decision based on many observations, notes, videos, hours of practice, and long discussions among the staff and not the process of some kind of evil, mustache-twirling, cat-stroking, Champagne-drinking sports movie villain who just has it out for the good-hearted kid.

[GMoose]

When we play KState and Texas I have a feeling that grin is gonna get wiped off pretty quick. If not, he can be a as cocky as he wants.

[Glendower]

God, I hope he's not a Crouch clone. The last thing we need is some guy running home to his HS coach when he's challenged for the starting spot.

[Billyball]

Who cares what a teen QB says after his biggest day on the gridiron. If he is the real deal; Dizzy Dean said it best "if you can do it, it ain't braggin.". If he's not, there will be plenty to be humble about and the young man will figure it out.

[th3r0m]

This discussion is really interesting and some veins in it are awfully strange. As someone else point out, if he "got screwed" that means that he was bumped back for reasons other than that he wasn't the best. That would mean that Bo Pelini and or Shawn Watson, adult men who get paid a lot to head a football team consisting of adolescents and young men, burdened with strong demands of success, would risk their season just to stick it to a college student for completely unclear reasons (e.g. Bo doesn't like him)? Does anyone else feel that that line of reasoning and set of assumptions are totally absurd and bordering on insane? The best explanation in here for how he may or may not have gotten screwed is that he didn't get snaps in his underclassman days and didn't get a chance to learn the complex system. But the idea that Bo would hate him and tell Watson to bump him to third string is just crazy when you consider how much of Pelini's and Watson's future ride on the success of the team.

 

The same thing goes for the other side of the same coin, though, that Lee is somehow owed something by the coaching staff and should get played regardless simply because of his seniority. I don't doubt that it would absolutely suck to be passed over by younger players, but just as I find it difficult to believe that the coaches would be petty and punish the team and themselves because a player is, what, arrogant? Unlikable? I don't know... just as I don't believe that, I also would be extremely disappointed if they played someone who was less qualified just because the staff like a guy. They get paid to be and act like professionals and not run some kind of Feelgoodery. They should work their butts off to refine every ounce of potential into practiced talent, and if they fail to do that, then, yes, they are "screwing" their players. But if they do their jobs, the players show up and do theirs, and some players, through a combination of practice, natural talent, and other characteristics are better, then it's up to them to fairly evaluate the players and put them where they belong.

 

This current staff hasn't given me much/any reason to believe that they would play a subjective game of favorites/least favorites just to fulfill some petty impulses. That being said, I don't think that they're robots and that they do have emotions that might lead to poor judgment from time to time, but bumping someone from first to (what appears to be) third string? That doesn't seem like a decision that would be made by a single person or made lightly.

 

So, in short (maybe I could put a *skip to summary* link at the top ) at this point, I believe that they made their decision based on many observations, notes, videos, hours of practice, and long discussions among the staff and not the process of some kind of evil, mustache-twirling, cat-stroking, Champagne-drinking sports movie villain who just has it out for the good-hearted kid.

 

Actually, it's not all that far out of an idea to put forth (ie favoritism or the lack thereof)

 

In many, if not most, areas of life and business it's not just likely but unfortunately very common that talent and hard work aren't what lead to promotion - it's where you stand politically (ie favored versus unfavored) in the eyes of those with the power to further (or be a detriment to) your career. Not saying that's the case here, but WHO you know usually gets you further than WHAT you know or how hard you work. I know plenty of people who work extremely hard and are extremely knowledgeable who have been passed over many a time for promotion by people less knowledgeable, less qualified and less able to do the job they're promoted to, but who have an "in with the boss."

 

It's my fondest hope that what you say above is true (and it's just as, if not more, likely than not that it is), but many a career has been made, extended or ended because of how someone "feels" about a person rather than the facts.

[HSKRNOKC]

The guy is a home run threat that we have been sorely missing. Talk the talk... walk the walk...

[huskerscott]

Im not claiming to know more. I just dont think we can be as successful against top notch teams with this type of O

 

I agree in the sense that Lee did not have a real shot to prove himself. But in order for me to buy your argument, you need to give me some kind of logical argument as to why you think that we won't be as successful against top notch teams.

 

Let's take a moment to reconsider the NU/ISU game last year. I don't think ISU would qualify as a "top-notch" team. But for whatever reason, Lee was still ineffective in running the offense. I remember feeling nervous every time Lee was pressured in the backfield last season because it would end up as an incompletion or a sack. Martinez seems to have real mobility.

 

I will wait until later in the season to entertain the idea of him being the best running quarterback we have seen since Eric Crouch. With that being said, I see Martinez being a lot more mobile than Lee. Are there any instances from last season where you remember Lee being pressured and taking off down the field? I'm sure it must have happened at some point in the season -- but no particular memory comes to mind.

 

 

Lee wasnt ineffective in running the offense...i think we can all agree that lee was not the problem that game

Lee definiately wasnt the problem that game. We had 380 yards of offense...... but 8 turnovers, like 5 in the redzone.

[gratefullred]

On the note of coachs playing the best QB because their jobs are on the line. How much does yesterday's depth chart of 1 Mart 2 Green have to do with the direction Bo wants to take the offense? He has mentioned needing the depth when the QB is a running threat. Add the recruiting of speed backs Heard and Green.

 

Rich Rod spread. How do you like that?

[huskerscott]

On the note of coachs playing the best QB because their jobs are on the line. How much does yesterday's depth chart of 1 Mart 2 Green have to do with the direction Bo wants to take the offense? He has mentioned needing the depth when the QB is a running threat. Add the recruiting of speed backs Heard and Green.

 

Rich Rod spread. How do you like that?

Gotta admit from what I caught of Michigan game, they didnt look to bad. Some people think UConn could win the BigEast this year.

[I See Red People]

Just curious as to who you all think will start at QB next week.....

[Glendower]

I just watched his post-game comments. I didn't think the "didn't have to work very hard" thing is quite as cocky as it reads in print. He came across as a fairly inarticulate teenager (i.e. a teenager) who was just answering questions using the wording in the questions. It sounded like confidence + paradoxically, nerves + assessment of his abilities + just a situationally limited vocabulary (I don't mean that he's dumb, I mean that he's in front of a lot of press trying to answer questions and maybe a little bit nervous about that). Seriously, go talk to most 18-19 year olds and you won't get a lot of words out of them. Someone asked "How hard did you have to work to get to this point?" and he said, "I didn't have to work very hard to get to this point." He just answered by giving the reporter's own words back to him instead of just leaving it with "I don't know" or "not very" or something like that.

 

He went on to clarify by saying that he hit this level his senior year with his passing and that it was something that he'd already developed. Maybe he doesn't think he's gotten better since he came to NU (though I'd wager that he has and just hasn't noticed his growth because of the talent around him) and thinks that he's been at the same level since HS. Heck, maybe football is just so much fun that it doesn't feel like "work." Again, he probably puts out a boatload of effort in practice but doesn't really think of it as "work."

 

I donno, but I didn't see a lot of arrogance, just someone who isn't very good at choosing his words yet and is honest about his own assessment of his abilities. We'll see how this develops, though. At least he didn't come off the field shouting into the cameras: "To all my critics: y'all ain't nothin'!"

[Husker_x]

The only concern of mine was putting his arms up before crossing the goalline. A stricter officiating crew could easily call a celebration penalty, which by the new rules would annul the TD. Would be a crappy way to lose a big game.

 

As for the interview, it came across as far more awkward than anything else. I think the answer about not having to work hard just came across wrong. He was just trying to say that he had developed his skills his senior year of HS so there wasn't any huge improvement needed as far as running and making good passes.

 

A friend of mine lived on the same floor as Martinez last year and said he was one of the cockiest people he'd ever met and that no one on the floor or on the team liked him. My friend knows one of the walk on players pretty well and he said that Martinez flat out told him and other walk-ons that they didn't deserve to be on the team and that they were basically a waste of space. I would say he's a little cocky. Still, as long as he continues to play like he did last night I don't think anyone really cares.

 

Well, Mr. 2-Post, that's quite a story there. A friend you know heard from some guy he knows that Taylor said walk-ons were a waste of space and nobody liked him.

 

Unencumbered by anything verifiable, or even first-hand information, maybe you shouldn't be ripping a person's character in a public forum.

[gratefullred]

T Mart showed a lot yesterday. He has speed, he can look off a DB, he could be more accurate, and I didnt see him throw deep. A good start for the young man. I hope he is too cocky, all good QBs are.

 

Hes not even close to Eric Crouch comparisons, even though that was the last guy playing QB at NU with that much athleticsm.

[Glendower]

This discussion is really interesting and some veins in it are awfully strange. As someone else point out, if he "got screwed" that means that he was bumped back for reasons other than that he wasn't the best. That would mean that Bo Pelini and or Shawn Watson, adult men who get paid a lot to head a football team consisting of adolescents and young men, burdened with strong demands of success, would risk their season just to stick it to a college student for completely unclear reasons (e.g. Bo doesn't like him)? Does anyone else feel that that line of reasoning and set of assumptions are totally absurd and bordering on insane? The best explanation in here for how he may or may not have gotten screwed is that he didn't get snaps in his underclassman days and didn't get a chance to learn the complex system. But the idea that Bo would hate him and tell Watson to bump him to third string is just crazy when you consider how much of Pelini's and Watson's future ride on the success of the team.

 

The same thing goes for the other side of the same coin, though, that Lee is somehow owed something by the coaching staff and should get played regardless simply because of his seniority. I don't doubt that it would absolutely suck to be passed over by younger players, but just as I find it difficult to believe that the coaches would be petty and punish the team and themselves because a player is, what, arrogant? Unlikable? I don't know... just as I don't believe that, I also would be extremely disappointed if they played someone who was less qualified just because the staff like a guy. They get paid to be and act like professionals and not run some kind of Feelgoodery. They should work their butts off to refine every ounce of potential into practiced talent, and if they fail to do that, then, yes, they are "screwing" their players. But if they do their jobs, the players show up and do theirs, and some players, through a combination of practice, natural talent, and other characteristics are better, then it's up to them to fairly evaluate the players and put them where they belong.

 

This current staff hasn't given me much/any reason to believe that they would play a subjective game of favorites/least favorites just to fulfill some petty impulses. That being said, I don't think that they're robots and that they do have emotions that might lead to poor judgment from time to time, but bumping someone from first to (what appears to be) third string? That doesn't seem like a decision that would be made by a single person or made lightly.

 

So, in short (maybe I could put a *skip to summary* link at the top ) at this point, I believe that they made their decision based on many observations, notes, videos, hours of practice, and long discussions among the staff and not the process of some kind of evil, mustache-twirling, cat-stroking, Champagne-drinking sports movie villain who just has it out for the good-hearted kid.

 

Actually, it's not all that far out of an idea to put forth (ie favoritism or the lack thereof)

 

In many, if not most, areas of life and business it's not just likely but unfortunately very common that talent and hard work aren't what lead to promotion - it's where you stand politically (ie favored versus unfavored) in the eyes of those with the power to further (or be a detriment to) your career. Not saying that's the case here, but WHO you know usually gets you further than WHAT you know or how hard you work. I know plenty of people who work extremely hard and are extremely knowledgeable who have been passed over many a time for promotion by people less knowledgeable, less qualified and less able to do the job they're promoted to, but who have an "in with the boss."

 

It's my fondest hope that what you say above is true (and it's just as, if not more, likely than not that it is), but many a career has been made, extended or ended because of how someone "feels" about a person rather than the facts.

 

I didn't mean to completely disregard that possibility but there is a coaching staff that, you'd think anyway, would question a bad decision. Also, unlike business, the coaches' performance is put on display and monitored every week (at least). This isn't like promoting one doofus to one of many management positions where that doofus's performance can be obfuscated in bureaucracy and layers of other employees (not intending to strawman what you said, I was just picking an example). This is something where we can see a supposed doofus's performance and ask, "What were they thinking?" But I didn't think that yesterday, Martinez performed well and just looked slightly crisper than the other two QBs. I don't think he's leagues ahead and might not be tops on every attribute of what makes a good QB, but he look a little better and might have more potential for growth. So I just find it unlikely that in this instance (I didn't mean every instance of promotion) that the decisions are more transparent to the people that the coaches have to answer to. Watson wouldn't want to look bad by promoting the not-best QB and Pelini wouldn't want to field a team that has a lower likelihood of winning. I'm sure they have favorites, everyone does, but you'd hope that someone else in the staff would call out a decision like that and ask for some good rationale for it.

 

I think that we see more of what you're describing within coaching staffs (Cosgrove, anyone? ).

 

So I feel that what you say is possible in this instance, but seems unlikely. Above all, though, I hope that the coaches aren't too proud to reverse a decision if it doesn't work out after a few games!

[illnino]

Let's wait and see what happens when we play someone that is actually ranked...I don't want to make the mistake of jumping on the band wagon too soon, but I have to admit that I am impressed with what I have seen so far. This is a much better start on offense than we have had in years. But I do have a suspicion that he will be slowed down a little when he faces a defense that actually has some speed themselves. But this is a great start. Good first game, but room for a lot of improvement.

 

 

I think he did a pretty good job yesterday, but it's just WAY too early to start comparing the kid to other great QB's. Let him get a few more games under his belt before proclaiming him the next great Nebraska QB. @ Washington and the Kansas St. games will be some great tests for the kid.