Is it okay to be a gay college athlete?

[Malth]

Feelings and actions are different.

 

People think about killing others, the ones that do it are murderers, the ones that don't, aren't.

 

People think about taking advantage of really drunk or passed out women, the ones that do it are rapists, the ones that don't aren't.

 

These are poor analogies. To be a murderer or a rapist, you have to actually murder or rape someone. To be gay, you don't have to do anything, it's just what your sexual orientation is.

 

Trying to compare a basic human to most things is tricky business. I think it's better to compare it to similar needs, like say, a need for shelter. You could choose to live on a bench in a park, but it's unreasonable to expect anyone to actually do that. It's nowhere near the same as choosing the other thousand things a day that we all do.

[broganreynik]

To me, what it comes down to is if they're ok with what they're going to endure. I'd say it's pretty evident that people (teammates/fans/opponents) will give them crap for being gay. If they can handle that, fine. There's more to it than "I think it's morally acceptable and you don't." You have to measure repercussions, as I would like to think most people do with most any decision, but that's far from the truth. I don't care if a guy or girl is gay. If a guy were to kiss another guy in front of me, that would make me uncomfortable though. But if two ugly people kissed that would too. Because kissing, whether or not it is a simple form of affection, has sexual connotations, however small that may be. So basically anything with sexual connotations is going to bother me if it's not someone I'm sexually attracted to. It's just a matter of comfort. I can deal with it if it happens though, that's on me. But if you are openly acting on your desires or instincts, knowing it will make majority of people uncomfortable, that's on you. You can't just forget about other people either. For instance, I like to listen to some bands my wife doesn't like, so when she's around, for the most part, I try not to listen to them. I didn't make a choice to like Nick Cave's music, I just heard it and was attracted to the music, but that doesn't mean I should forego her desires as well just because I want to act on mine. So coming out, I think is fine if you've weighed the pros and cons and find that it being known that you're gay will work better than keeping it to yourself. But being "openly gay" to the extent of kissing another guy after practice is a completely different ball of worms. If everyone there, or majority of people there are fine with it, by all means, but you can't just say "hey, it's ok to do this anywhere".

 

Also, if you're ragging on someone else for their religious beliefs, that is no better than that person ragging on someone for being gay. Let people believe what they want to believe. It's how and where they practice their beliefs is the issue.

 

I am a Christian, btw, but I believe people make their own decisions. One thing that bothers me is when Christians get all preachy to non-believers of the faith. If they haven't become a Christian in their lives by now, why would they just because you asked them to? Or when Christian ministries send bibles to ravaged areas instead of food. That seems ridiculous.

 

I didn't vote for anything though. I wouldn't want the person booted from the team, but I'm not a person that will fight for gay rights either. I'm kind of indifferent, as it's their prerogative, why should I care? I'm not going to get all upset if it was revealed Jared Crick has a thing for women over 85 or if Carl Pelini likes pickles rubbed all over his feet before he gets it on.

[bigg10]

Ok, if you have never heard it, let me suggest some pink floyd song us and them. Argue that one!!!

[zoogs]

I have not really followed this discussion. But I tend to think being gay is a decision people can make, and they should embrace it and be proud of it. It isn't as if it's some handicap they wish they could have avoided but are stuck with. It's who they want to be.

 

There is no reason to look down on anyone for that. This is one personal choice that has no affect on you if you don't like it, and I strongly disagree with anyone who considers it morally base or inferior to their own standards of being.

 

I absolutely think there are, and have been many, gay athletes. In fact, there have been 3 openly gay athletes in the history of the NFL: 9-year DL Esera Tuaolo, 9-year RB David Kopay, 5-year OL Roy Simmons (all retired and all came out afterwards, I think). Sexuality is something everyone has in their own individual way, and it's really their own damn business, but that's only my opinion.

 

That said, I'm just at all the hoopla and controversy surrounding Joakim Noah's comments. I'm not a fan of the "OMG, don't use that word, it's derogatory and bigoted" crowd. I can understand how it is different for a public figure in the spotlight, but c'mon now...

[The Dude]

I have not really followed this discussion. But I tend to think being gay is a decision people can make, and they should embrace it and be proud of it. It isn't as if it's some handicap they wish they could have avoided but are stuck with. It's who they want to be.

For a lot it's not who they want to be, so much so that some end up killing themselves because they fear what others might think. Or because of self-hatred because they're told what they are is wrong. If they could just decide to be straight, don't you think they'd rather just go that route?

[Lil' Red]

I really don't know why anyone should have a problem with any player being gay. By being gay they are in no way harming anyone and it is noway their choice on what sex they are attracted too. It's fine if you don't agree with it morally but I think you have to at least accept it and respect it. Whether or not a player wants to be openly gay is entirely their decision and by announcing being gay it may rub a few people the wrong way but I think they should at least be respected for it and not discriminated or punished in any way for it.

[bball_backer]

Everyone is talking about how it is their life style, who are we to judge. But if this person was choosing to shoot up heroine in there free time I would definetely judge them. I personally do believe that living a homosexual lifestyle is wrong. But it is just as morally wrong as all the guys out there sleeping around with girls. I would still cheer for him and support him as a husker, but would not support his lifestyle.

 

Shooting heroin is illegal. Being gay is not a crime. You don't have to like the fact that they're gay, but there's nothing wrong with it, and it's not your place or my place to judge. Your morals don't have anything to do with me or the players on the team.

I normally don't have any problems with what you say, knap, but I call B.S. on this one. You may not be judging gays, but you are judging people uncomfortable with that lifestyle hardcore. You repeatedly say it's 'stupid' to be uncomfortable with, you say it's an 'unbased opinion' (Believers will respectfully disagree (see also: Bible)), and you call them (us - I disagree with homosexuality, but a sports forum isn't the place to get into that) 'knuckledraggers.' As far as I can see, you have been the most judgemental person in this thread...

 

As for a player coming out - I won't judge them, it's not my place. I'll continue to cheer for them and support them, but I'll also pray for guidance for them.

[The Dude]

A fictional book written by goat herders thousands of years ago is a terrible reason to be prejudice against someone.

[zoogs]

I have not really followed this discussion. But I tend to think being gay is a decision people can make, and they should embrace it and be proud of it. It isn't as if it's some handicap they wish they could have avoided but are stuck with. It's who they want to be.

For a lot it's not who they want to be, so much so that some end up killing themselves because they fear what others might think. Or because of self-hatred because they're told what they are is wrong. If they could just decide to be straight, don't you think they'd rather just go that route?

 

Hm, good point. I guess I would see it as a conflict between what they want to be, and what they think is permissible in order to live the life they know. I probably don't understand this as well as I could. In the end, this is a much more insignificant point than the main one: they should be accepted and not judged, outcast, or treated the way they have been. It has gotten much better to be sure, but there's probably a long way to go.

 

There's a certain degree of 'can't help it' too, of course. Maybe a bad analogy, but if I could just decide to like healthy food, that'd be great, but I can't help it. My soft spot for orange chicken and doritos just exists, no matter what. Nonetheless I can still choose whether or not to indulge in that, or eat salad greens and whole wheat bread. The difference here is that in this analogy, one of the choices is actually bad and the other good. Sort of see what I mean? Whether there are genetic links or not, that whole angle is overplayed in my opinion, at the disservice of the gay community: it paints it in the "it's base and vile, but these people can't help it because it's hard-coded" sense. Or maybe my impression of the whole argument is wrong.

 

But my point was that people who identify themselves as gay ought to be happy with themselves and not look at it as something they wish they weren't. It's very sad when that happens.

 

As far as what knapp is saying: I agree completely. Sure you can make the argument that anti-anti-gay people are just as judgmental as anti-gay people, but one is a case of people disliking another group of people for whatever reason, and the other is a case of people who protest the disliking of other groups of people. Although it matters more how you treat other groups of people, than how you think of them. I would say the anti-anti-gay folk are just protesting those who contribute to the atmosphere of discrimination and looking-down-upon that gay people face, rather than those who are just squeamish and don't like the thought.

[The Dude]

I have not really followed this discussion. But I tend to think being gay is a decision people can make, and they should embrace it and be proud of it. It isn't as if it's some handicap they wish they could have avoided but are stuck with. It's who they want to be.

For a lot it's not who they want to be, so much so that some end up killing themselves because they fear what others might think. Or because of self-hatred because they're told what they are is wrong. If they could just decide to be straight, don't you think they'd rather just go that route?

But my point was that people who identify themselves as gay ought to be happy with themselves and not look at it as something they wish they weren't. It's very sad when that happens.

Couldn't agree more. It does happen, it will happen, and it is sad. And that kind of ties into the original subject matter of the thread. People argue that having a gay college athlete on a team could have a negative impact on the gay college student because of harrassment or what-have-you. But as I stated earlier it's not ok to institutionalize discrimination in the name of protection from the people who are actually the problem. Punish the people who are actually doing something wrong.

[HUSKER 37]

I dissagree to a certain extent.

I'm probably a bigot, but The icky sex thing is just part of what I hate.

I also hate watching shows like "queer eye for the straight guy" or whatever that show was called, and guys that talk with lisps still bug me most times..the whole "femme" thing bugs me enough that I try to avoid stuff like watching men's figure skating, going to Lady GaGa concerts, or hanging out with interior decorators.

 

I have a handy tip for you that will save you a lot of aggravation - if there's a show on TV that you don't like, change the channel. This amazingly effective trick will prevent you from ever having to spend another evening watching Queer Eye For The Straight Guy, or any show with a guy who talks with a lisp, or any show containing interior decorators.

 

It takes practice, and your thumb may get tired at first, but once you get the hang of changing the channel, you'll never have to watch shows you don't like again.

 

But try using your remote out in public..see how many point and laugh at you for that...I still find myself pretending to hold a remote and hitting the fast forward button when a co-worker goes on and on about food.

 

(BTW, Knap...I bought my 1st percolator last week...Best coffee I've ever had).

 

 

I too would rather avoid gay folks...you never know what you'll catch..(kidding..mostly). "Mommy's allright..Daddy's allright..They just seem a little weird"..-Cheap Trick

 

I'm probably always going to be a work in progress..and I'm fine with that...I even sometimes wonder if my life would be more complete if I had a gay friend or two...I know I'll probably always hate being around the steriotypical cigarette butts, just like I'll probably never date a woman that has a kick-dog..or talks "baby-talk" to her cats.

 

There's several hetero guys that "should be" gay that aren't..My current theory is that it's linked to a mutant strand of one's DNA (as probably the most important factor) in addition to having a distant father figure growing up..for gay males anyway..For Lesbians? I'd just chalk that up to some women having better tastes than to hang around some smelly , hairy guy like me.

 

God once told me that morality is totally man-made..and I think I saw him wink at me when he said something about him never making mistakes.

 

I've tried reaching out to one or two gay posters here..and thankfully, they pretty much ignored me...But I would still "fight for their right to pot-aaay" (exist).

 

 

I do wonder how many of us would recruit an openly gay fella, though.

 

I might...if the team was prewarned/prequalified? ahead of time.

 

 

 

 

 

And all the soap dispensers were properly mounted on the shower walls.

[knapplc]

Everyone is talking about how it is their life style, who are we to judge. But if this person was choosing to shoot up heroine in there free time I would definetely judge them. I personally do believe that living a homosexual lifestyle is wrong. But it is just as morally wrong as all the guys out there sleeping around with girls. I would still cheer for him and support him as a husker, but would not support his lifestyle.

 

Shooting heroin is illegal. Being gay is not a crime. You don't have to like the fact that they're gay, but there's nothing wrong with it, and it's not your place or my place to judge. Your morals don't have anything to do with me or the players on the team.

I normally don't have any problems with what you say, knap, but I call B.S. on this one. You may not be judging gays, but you are judging people uncomfortable with that lifestyle hardcore. You repeatedly say it's 'stupid' to be uncomfortable with, you say it's an 'unbased opinion' (Believers will respectfully disagree (see also: Bible)), and you call them (us - I disagree with homosexuality, but a sports forum isn't the place to get into that) 'knuckledraggers.' As far as I can see, you have been the most judgemental person in this thread...

 

So you're OK with someone (lionsfan93, in the quote above) using their morals to denounce gays, but you're not OK with me using my morals to denounce that stance.

 

Tell me how that's not hypocrisy.

[rawhide]

WTF there are gay mail carriers????????????????????????????????????????

 

 

 

 

 

just in case

 

ya gotta look for it

 

GBR

[agibson95]

Everyone is talking about how it is their life style, who are we to judge. But if this person was choosing to shoot up heroine in there free time I would definetely judge them. I personally do believe that living a homosexual lifestyle is wrong. But it is just as morally wrong as all the guys out there sleeping around with girls. I would still cheer for him and support him as a husker, but would not support his lifestyle.

 

The difference between illegal drug use and being gay is that you choose to be a druggie and you are born gay. Their actions might make you uncomfortable, but its not a choice for them. I personally think sleeping around or cheating on spouses is wrong, but its more acceptable in our society for some reason. I have learned to let people make their own choices and, as long as they dont hurt anyone, support them. I am just thankful I am not gay and that I can have PDA's without the fear of being judged or beaten up.

[Malth]

Everyone is talking about how it is their life style, who are we to judge. But if this person was choosing to shoot up heroine in there free time I would definetely judge them. I personally do believe that living a homosexual lifestyle is wrong. But it is just as morally wrong as all the guys out there sleeping around with girls. I would still cheer for him and support him as a husker, but would not support his lifestyle.

 

The difference between illegal drug use and being gay is that you choose to be a druggie and you are born gay. Their actions might make you uncomfortable, but its not a choice for them. I personally think sleeping around or cheating on spouses is wrong, but its more acceptable in our society for some reason. I have learned to let people make their own choices and, as long as they dont hurt anyone, support them. I am just thankful I am not gay and that I can have PDA's without the fear of being judged or beaten up.

 

Well, there is a gene for addiction. People don't really choose to be addicts. That's what makes it addiction.