QB?

[3rd and long]

I'll get torched for this, but what the heck it's my opinion and how I feel so I'll put my thoughts out there anyway.

 

Does no one see the similarities so far this year to how last year started. My goodness, he was being mentioned in Heisman talk midway into the season, until we ran into high caliber Big X11 defenses with superior athletes. I know he was injured, but he was completely ineffective, and even injured wasn't going to continue with the eye-popping numbers. And yes, I really do know much of that was Watson

 

Yes, his stats look really inpressive, but c'mon, does anyone really think those back footed lobs are going to continue to work when we start playing the big boys with real defenses? We're basing an awfull lot off a throw that Turner adjusted well to and made the catch, and another throw to a wide-open receiver in the corner of the endzone, every QB in the country could have made that throw. The shorter, quicker throws are still more often than not off the mark, usually behind the receiver and not catchable.

 

I realize he's most likely our best option. But for those who state that he is our best QB, no questions asked, how do we know for sure? We haven't even seen Carnes get any meaningful time, and he had option called on I believe five of his six snaps. How can we really know what he might be able to do.

 

I know Martinez is homerun hitter and many of our problems stem from other areas (namely that OL). But I can't believe the amount of people who are completely sold on him as being our answer. If anyone asks a reasonable question that does question him, they get shouted down quickly (I'm expecting mine soon).

 

Yes he's a sophmore, but after two games, does anyone think he has shown improvement over last year? His strenghs are still the same (he's fast and a threat to go all the way) as are his weaknesses (no pocket presence, poor accuracy, horrible ball security). At this point, I think he has a long way to go to being mentioned in the same group as our other QB's (Frost, Frazier, Crouch), and our team around Crouch wasn't anytning to right home about either. I'm just concerned that this year looks an awful lot like last year.

 

Just my thoughts on him. I hope I'm proven completely wrong, and what they worked on in the offseason starts to show itself soon. But at this point, this season looks to me an awfull lot like last year, and nobody liked how that ended.

 

 

Tmart's two game this year....

 

rushing, 34 runs, 301 yds, 8.9 ypc, 5 TDS

 

passing, 21/43, 335 yds, I TD, 2 Int (one was the hail Mary)

 

You're gonna to bench that?

 

That's why I even hesitated to post. I knew someone would fire right back with the stats. Yes, the stats look great, but let me ask you a question. Do you believe those numbers are going to be sustained against the better quality opponents? Do you really believe we're going to get away with the throw it up deep and hope philosophy all through the season?

Did I say anywhere "I want to bench him"? I'm saying I'm concerned about his progress from last year on areas that are obvious weeknesses, that don't appear to anywhere near being fixed. I have no real idea if we have anyone else who can play the position, but how are we ever going to know? I'll tell you what, lets give the heisman out after two, or three, or even four games, then he'll have two and we'll all be happy. It's similar to the guy who hits .400 in spring training. I just don't want this season to end on a dissapointing note like last year.

I'll tell you what, show me the difference, or more importantly, the improvement from last year to this, something reasonable to pin my hopes and expectations on (in this area) and I'll gladly throw in with you and the majority.

If you don't want people to respond, why even post? =/Also, most of your post here is based on the notion we've seen everything the offense is going to do. We just don't know that yet.

 

Because I'm looking for more than his stats, which I knew is what I would get back. I want to see signs of improvement from him over last year. Stats tell only part of the story, we all know that. Rather than just come back at me with his numbers, tell me why this year is going to be different from last year. What's changed.

And saying Bo is going to put the guy out there that gives us the best chance to win....I know that's true, but really, last year at times he shouldn't have even been out there and Bo wouldn't make a change. I just want reason to believe that this year will be different, and after two games, a lot of things look just the same.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm skeptical that Beck has unleashed the entire playbook. Too me, it seems pretty obvious that he's a better passer than he was at this time last year. He only got better as the year went on, until the injuries. And I agree he shouldn't have been out there either. That has a lot more to do with Bo than it does Taylor.

 

That's true, I have to think there is a lot more noboby has seen. I haven't seen the difference in his passing, but I've only gotten to watch on TV, maybe it looks better in person. You're correct, we'll just have to wait and see, and I sincerely hope I am the wrong one in this thread.

[n.e.husker]

I just wish we could have Fresno States play calling and offensive execution.

 

Yea...this is our OCs first year at this position at this level of competion. We will get there, be patient. I know this is hard for a husker fan.

[knapplc]

3rd and long, you're asking people to look into a crystal ball and predict the future. I could sit here and blow sunshine up your backside and tell you that Martinez has seen the light and will be a brilliant QB from here on out, but nobody knows if that's true.

 

All you can do is look at the raw product, acknowledge his potential, and hope he reaches it. Same thing you do with Burkhead, Carnes, Kenny.... anyone.

 

We're all in the same boat you're in, if that makes it any better (probably not, but it's all I got). We're all concerned about Marty's throwing, his decision-making, his durability, everything. The reason some of us are saying he deserves a shot is, folks my age have been around to watch Turner Gill develop from a mistake-prone underclassman to a legit player. Same goes for Tommie Frazier, Steve Taylor, Scott Frost, Zac Taylor, Jammal Lord, Eric Crouch, etc. Nobody looks great as a Sophomore. Sophomores who make no mistakes and win a Brazilian games are very rare.

[3rd and long]

N.E. Husker, you appear to be a voice of calm reasoning...what's up with that? Isn't it born into the blood to pamic right away if you're a Husker fan?

 

I am a panicker (sp?) and a true-blue armchair QB, heck, I wouldn't be happy if I didn't have something to worry or bitch about. I hope it's a real butt kicking on Saturday. Now, lucky me, it's off to watch HS JV volleyball.

[bshirt]

I'll get torched for this, but what the heck it's my opinion and how I feel so I'll put my thoughts out there anyway.

 

Does no one see the similarities so far this year to how last year started. My goodness, he was being mentioned in Heisman talk midway into the season, until we ran into high caliber Big X11 defenses with superior athletes. I know he was injured, but he was completely ineffective, and even injured wasn't going to continue with the eye-popping numbers. And yes, I really do know much of that was Watson

 

Yes, his stats look really inpressive, but c'mon, does anyone really think those back footed lobs are going to continue to work when we start playing the big boys with real defenses? We're basing an awfull lot off a throw that Turner adjusted well to and made the catch, and another throw to a wide-open receiver in the corner of the endzone, every QB in the country could have made that throw. The shorter, quicker throws are still more often than not off the mark, usually behind the receiver and not catchable.

 

I realize he's most likely our best option. But for those who state that he is our best QB, no questions asked, how do we know for sure? We haven't even seen Carnes get any meaningful time, and he had option called on I believe five of his six snaps. How can we really know what he might be able to do.

 

I know Martinez is homerun hitter and many of our problems stem from other areas (namely that OL). But I can't believe the amount of people who are completely sold on him as being our answer. If anyone asks a reasonable question that does question him, they get shouted down quickly (I'm expecting mine soon).

 

Yes he's a sophmore, but after two games, does anyone think he has shown improvement over last year? His strenghs are still the same (he's fast and a threat to go all the way) as are his weaknesses (no pocket presence, poor accuracy, horrible ball security). At this point, I think he has a long way to go to being mentioned in the same group as our other QB's (Frost, Frazier, Crouch), and our team around Crouch wasn't anytning to right home about either. I'm just concerned that this year looks an awful lot like last year.

 

Just my thoughts on him. I hope I'm proven completely wrong, and what they worked on in the offseason starts to show itself soon. But at this point, this season looks to me an awfull lot like last year, and nobody liked how that ended.

 

 

Tmart's two game this year....

 

rushing, 34 runs, 301 yds, 8.9 ypc, 5 TDS

 

passing, 21/43, 335 yds, I TD, 2 Int (one was the hail Mary)

 

You're gonna to bench that?

 

That's why I even hesitated to post. I knew someone would fire right back with the stats. Yes, the stats look great, but let me ask you a question. Do you believe those numbers are going to be sustained against the better quality opponents? Do you really believe we're going to get away with the throw it up deep and hope philosophy all through the season?

Did I say anywhere "I want to bench him"? I'm saying I'm concerned about his progress from last year on areas that are obvious weeknesses, that don't appear to anywhere near being fixed. I have no real idea if we have anyone else who can play the position, but how are we ever going to know? I'll tell you what, lets give the heisman out after two, or three, or even four games, then he'll have two and we'll all be happy. It's similar to the guy who hits .400 in spring training. I just don't want this season to end on a dissapointing note like last year.

I'll tell you what, show me the difference, or more importantly, the improvement from last year to this, something reasonable to pin my hopes and expectations on (in this area) and I'll gladly throw in with you and the majority.

If you don't want people to respond, why even post? =/Also, most of your post here is based on the notion we've seen everything the offense is going to do. We just don't know that yet.

 

Because I'm looking for more than his stats, which I knew is what I would get back. I want to see signs of improvement from him over last year. Stats tell only part of the story, we all know that. Rather than just come back at me with his numbers, tell me why this year is going to be different from last year. What's changed.

And saying Bo is going to put the guy out there that gives us the best chance to win....I know that's true, but really, last year at times he shouldn't have even been out there and Bo wouldn't make a change. I just want reason to believe that this year will be different, and after two games, a lot of things look just the same.

 

Well....yes they look the same in that they're excellent numbers. So you would be happy if they weren't?

[3rd and long]

3rd and long, you're asking people to look into a crystal ball and predict the future. I could sit here and blow sunshine up your backside and tell you that Martinez has seen the light and will be a brilliant QB from here on out, but nobody knows if that's true.

 

All you can do is look at the raw product, acknowledge his potential, and hope he reaches it. Same thing you do with Burkhead, Carnes, Kenny.... anyone.

 

We're all in the same boat you're in, if that makes it any better (probably not, but it's all I got). We're all concerned about Marty's throwing, his decision-making, his durability, everything. The reason some of us are saying he deserves a shot is, folks my age have been around to watch Turner Gill develop from a mistake-prone underclassman to a legit player. Same goes for Tommie Frazier, Steve Taylor, Scott Frost, Zac Taylor, Jammal Lord, Eric Crouch, etc. Nobody looks great as a Sophomore. Sophomores who make no mistakes and win a Brazilian games are very rare.

 

I certainly understand that, and that's all I'm saying. I'm trying to look past those numbers to see the type of things that will help us win games when we're in the meat of our schedule. Absolutey he deserves a shot, he is incredibly talented. Now when that talent combines with refinement is when we hopefully take it to the next level. I'm also looking realistically at what I perceive as faults that need those refinements. And quoting stats from two games doesn't offer that truly realalistic, unskewed view. And now, off to that volleyball game. Hope everyone has a great evening!

[3rd and long]

I'll get torched for this, but what the heck it's my opinion and how I feel so I'll put my thoughts out there anyway.

 

Does no one see the similarities so far this year to how last year started. My goodness, he was being mentioned in Heisman talk midway into the season, until we ran into high caliber Big X11 defenses with superior athletes. I know he was injured, but he was completely ineffective, and even injured wasn't going to continue with the eye-popping numbers. And yes, I really do know much of that was Watson

 

Yes, his stats look really inpressive, but c'mon, does anyone really think those back footed lobs are going to continue to work when we start playing the big boys with real defenses? We're basing an awfull lot off a throw that Turner adjusted well to and made the catch, and another throw to a wide-open receiver in the corner of the endzone, every QB in the country could have made that throw. The shorter, quicker throws are still more often than not off the mark, usually behind the receiver and not catchable.

 

I realize he's most likely our best option. But for those who state that he is our best QB, no questions asked, how do we know for sure? We haven't even seen Carnes get any meaningful time, and he had option called on I believe five of his six snaps. How can we really know what he might be able to do.

 

I know Martinez is homerun hitter and many of our problems stem from other areas (namely that OL). But I can't believe the amount of people who are completely sold on him as being our answer. If anyone asks a reasonable question that does question him, they get shouted down quickly (I'm expecting mine soon).

 

Yes he's a sophmore, but after two games, does anyone think he has shown improvement over last year? His strenghs are still the same (he's fast and a threat to go all the way) as are his weaknesses (no pocket presence, poor accuracy, horrible ball security). At this point, I think he has a long way to go to being mentioned in the same group as our other QB's (Frost, Frazier, Crouch), and our team around Crouch wasn't anytning to right home about either. I'm just concerned that this year looks an awful lot like last year.

 

Just my thoughts on him. I hope I'm proven completely wrong, and what they worked on in the offseason starts to show itself soon. But at this point, this season looks to me an awfull lot like last year, and nobody liked how that ended.

 

 

Tmart's two game this year....

 

rushing, 34 runs, 301 yds, 8.9 ypc, 5 TDS

 

passing, 21/43, 335 yds, I TD, 2 Int (one was the hail Mary)

 

You're gonna to bench that?

 

That's why I even hesitated to post. I knew someone would fire right back with the stats. Yes, the stats look great, but let me ask you a question. Do you believe those numbers are going to be sustained against the better quality opponents? Do you really believe we're going to get away with the throw it up deep and hope philosophy all through the season?

Did I say anywhere "I want to bench him"? I'm saying I'm concerned about his progress from last year on areas that are obvious weeknesses, that don't appear to anywhere near being fixed. I have no real idea if we have anyone else who can play the position, but how are we ever going to know? I'll tell you what, lets give the heisman out after two, or three, or even four games, then he'll have two and we'll all be happy. It's similar to the guy who hits .400 in spring training. I just don't want this season to end on a dissapointing note like last year.

I'll tell you what, show me the difference, or more importantly, the improvement from last year to this, something reasonable to pin my hopes and expectations on (in this area) and I'll gladly throw in with you and the majority.

If you don't want people to respond, why even post? =/Also, most of your post here is based on the notion we've seen everything the offense is going to do. We just don't know that yet.

 

Because I'm looking for more than his stats, which I knew is what I would get back. I want to see signs of improvement from him over last year. Stats tell only part of the story, we all know that. Rather than just come back at me with his numbers, tell me why this year is going to be different from last year. What's changed.

And saying Bo is going to put the guy out there that gives us the best chance to win....I know that's true, but really, last year at times he shouldn't have even been out there and Bo wouldn't make a change. I just want reason to believe that this year will be different, and after two games, a lot of things look just the same.

 

Well....yes they look the same in that they're excellent numbers. So you would be happy if they weren't?

 

Man, I really have to go. Please, please set the stats aside for a while. I surrender!

[knapplc]

I am a panicker (sp?) and a true-blue armchair QB, heck, I wouldn't be happy if I didn't have something to worry or bitch about.

 

You need to pull up a chair and have a cold one. You're going to fit in very well around here. Most of us tend to panic a bit unless we're up by 30 points, and even then we're looking for our next score.

[n.e.husker]

N.E. Husker, you appear to be a voice of calm reasoning...what's up with that? Isn't it born into the blood to pamic right away if you're a Husker fan?

 

I am a panicker (sp?) and a true-blue armchair QB, heck, I wouldn't be happy if I didn't have something to worry or bitch about. I hope it's a real butt kicking on Saturday. Now, lucky me, it's off to watch HS JV volleyball.

 

 

Haha, i dont know about that. I do get extremely emotional/riled up on saturdays and into sundays(ask my girlfriend). I guess ive learned to be patient, re watch games and try to be more optimistic. We are 2-0 and I have no reason to beleave that our staff( while new with 4 new coaches) are going to get the players going in the right direction. Our team should only get better as the season goes on. There is plenty to complain about, but there is more to be optimistic about.

 

GBR

[philko80]

I'm going to agree with a lot of what has already been said and hashed and re-hashed. Yes, T-Mart is our best option right now at QB, and a good one at that. What I'm more curious about is why Carnes has seen game action and Kellogg has not. Is Carnes really that much better of a QB? Wouldn't it make more sense to have your backup QB be one that's been in the system longer? And this is no knock on Carnes or his athletic ability. It just seems that it couldn't hurt to have Kellogg play in some of that garbage time/mop-up duty at the end of games, to see where he's at. If for some reason T-Mart goes down (knock on wood he doesn't) I don't know how I would feel handing over the reins to Carnes over Kellogg, without Kellogg getting a fair shake.

[bshirt]

I'll get torched for this, but what the heck it's my opinion and how I feel so I'll put my thoughts out there anyway.

 

Does no one see the similarities so far this year to how last year started. My goodness, he was being mentioned in Heisman talk midway into the season, until we ran into high caliber Big X11 defenses with superior athletes. I know he was injured, but he was completely ineffective, and even injured wasn't going to continue with the eye-popping numbers. And yes, I really do know much of that was Watson

 

Yes, his stats look really inpressive, but c'mon, does anyone really think those back footed lobs are going to continue to work when we start playing the big boys with real defenses? We're basing an awfull lot off a throw that Turner adjusted well to and made the catch, and another throw to a wide-open receiver in the corner of the endzone, every QB in the country could have made that throw. The shorter, quicker throws are still more often than not off the mark, usually behind the receiver and not catchable.

 

I realize he's most likely our best option. But for those who state that he is our best QB, no questions asked, how do we know for sure? We haven't even seen Carnes get any meaningful time, and he had option called on I believe five of his six snaps. How can we really know what he might be able to do.

 

I know Martinez is homerun hitter and many of our problems stem from other areas (namely that OL). But I can't believe the amount of people who are completely sold on him as being our answer. If anyone asks a reasonable question that does question him, they get shouted down quickly (I'm expecting mine soon).

 

Yes he's a sophmore, but after two games, does anyone think he has shown improvement over last year? His strenghs are still the same (he's fast and a threat to go all the way) as are his weaknesses (no pocket presence, poor accuracy, horrible ball security). At this point, I think he has a long way to go to being mentioned in the same group as our other QB's (Frost, Frazier, Crouch), and our team around Crouch wasn't anytning to right home about either. I'm just concerned that this year looks an awful lot like last year.

 

Just my thoughts on him. I hope I'm proven completely wrong, and what they worked on in the offseason starts to show itself soon. But at this point, this season looks to me an awfull lot like last year, and nobody liked how that ended.

 

 

Tmart's two game this year....

 

rushing, 34 runs, 301 yds, 8.9 ypc, 5 TDS

 

passing, 21/43, 335 yds, I TD, 2 Int (one was the hail Mary)

 

You're gonna to bench that?

 

That's why I even hesitated to post. I knew someone would fire right back with the stats. Yes, the stats look great, but let me ask you a question. Do you believe those numbers are going to be sustained against the better quality opponents? Do you really believe we're going to get away with the throw it up deep and hope philosophy all through the season?

Did I say anywhere "I want to bench him"? I'm saying I'm concerned about his progress from last year on areas that are obvious weeknesses, that don't appear to anywhere near being fixed. I have no real idea if we have anyone else who can play the position, but how are we ever going to know? I'll tell you what, lets give the heisman out after two, or three, or even four games, then he'll have two and we'll all be happy. It's similar to the guy who hits .400 in spring training. I just don't want this season to end on a dissapointing note like last year.

I'll tell you what, show me the difference, or more importantly, the improvement from last year to this, something reasonable to pin my hopes and expectations on (in this area) and I'll gladly throw in with you and the majority.

If you don't want people to respond, why even post? =/Also, most of your post here is based on the notion we've seen everything the offense is going to do. We just don't know that yet.

 

Because I'm looking for more than his stats, which I knew is what I would get back. I want to see signs of improvement from him over last year. Stats tell only part of the story, we all know that. Rather than just come back at me with his numbers, tell me why this year is going to be different from last year. What's changed.

And saying Bo is going to put the guy out there that gives us the best chance to win....I know that's true, but really, last year at times he shouldn't have even been out there and Bo wouldn't make a change. I just want reason to believe that this year will be different, and after two games, a lot of things look just the same.

 

Well....yes they look the same in that they're excellent numbers. So you would be happy if they weren't?

 

Man, I really have to go. Please, please set the stats aside for a while. I surrender!

 

 

lol!

 

No problem my friend....have fun!!

[Saunders]

I have no doubt that Taylor was pressing the first half of that game. Our D was on the field way too long, and he was trying to make plays. Problem is, when the o-line doesn't block, receivers don't catch, and the RB's can't get going, that's when he made mistakes. The halftime chat helped, because he seemed more calm, and less jittery in the pocket. It also helped that his receivers did their job and actually caught the football.

 

Here's the problem. Bo plays the best guys. We know this. It's obvious that TM is our #1 QB. Without him, we quite possibly could be 1-1 with our first loss to a WAC team in 60 years. We have a young O-line, a so-so oline coach, a new OC (jury is out), new WR coach, and a bunch over young skill guys. It's going to take time to gel. There's no realistic chance we go undefeated this year. We're gonna have some bumps, but enjoy the ride of watching this team grow. They could end up being pretty special.

[gobiggergoredder]

 

Here's the problem. Bo plays the best guys. We know this.

 

Not to get off the subject, but why does Tim Marlowe return kicks?.....or play WR.

[krc1995]

I'm going to agree with a lot of what has already been said and hashed and re-hashed. Yes, T-Mart is our best option right now at QB, and a good one at that. What I'm more curious about is why Carnes has seen game action and Kellogg has not. Is Carnes really that much better of a QB? Wouldn't it make more sense to have your backup QB be one that's been in the system longer? And this is no knock on Carnes or his athletic ability. It just seems that it couldn't hurt to have Kellogg play in some of that garbage time/mop-up duty at the end of games, to see where he's at. If for some reason T-Mart goes down (knock on wood he doesn't) I don't know how I would feel handing over the reins to Carnes over Kellogg, without Kellogg getting a fair shake.

Not enough mop up time to go around

[bshirt]

I agree that Taylor is the best qb we have and should be out there all game. It's just frustrating to final get talent like Reed, Bell, Turner, Enunwa, Abdullah, Green, Heard and Cotton and not have anyone who can distribute the ball or is willing to give up some of there own carries in favor of getting other players some touches. I think we'll still win the games I'm just not sure we'll compete for a top five finish until that gets fixed.

 

 

 

ps. Taylor is not the only reason this team seems to have peaked at 10 win seasons instead of thirteen win seasons.

 

 

Where in the world does this "Tmart doesn't want to distribute the ball" horsesh*t come from?? He does what is called and simply makes the best decisions he can. Surely you realize that the reason so many of our wrs are WIDE OPEN is because opponent DC's compromise their defense due to Tmart's runs. Does he "ever" get any credit for that? F*** no. Do you think that just "maybe" if our Oline had any kind of push Super Rex & the triplets would see more action? Nahhhhh...."Tmart is a ball hog!"

 

Look at his passing stats. They're not bad but what if we had wrs who actually cuaght the ball repeatably? Think that might make a difference? Naahhhhh...of course not. His running stats are all-world but so what....."he sucks"!

 

Our running game getting stuffed like sardines is Tmart's fault. Our wrs dropping balls all over the place (last year too) is Tmart's fault. Our Oline can't run block and our wrs can't catch the ball and what do you hear 10,000 times?...of course........"we need another qb!!".

 

Wow.....simply....wow.

It's early, but I just can't see Beck calling about 40% of our runs to TM w/ the backs we have. Look at game 1. Martinez 19 rushes. Rex/Heard/Green/Adbullah 20 rushes. Why are those 4 guys combined barely carrying the ball more than TM? Couple of those were scrambles and/or sacks. But 19? How many of the 19 were called passes where he didn't get past his 1st read before running? How many times do we see him check out of a play to himself? Someone needs to go through the games and see how many times - because I'd bet about 80% of his checks are to his own number. Watch on Saturday before you blow up and cuss at me plz. Same w/ Fresno. The first 3 quarters were even more lopsided towards Martinez, with him having something like 14 rushes to Rex/Abdulla's 10. No wonder he has 75% of the production.

 

I'm in the group that is disapointed at this point w/ our distribution as well. Maybe it's the playcalling (and Martinez certainly has the freedom to adjust that at the line of scrimage so don't just say he runs what is called) - but if anything I'd think the playcalling would swing the OTHER way. Martinez needs to stay healthy because it's obviously he is BY FAR our best QB right now. So why is 75% of our production predicated on him during our scrimmages? Why is this is Abdulla averaging 3 carries a game (all in garbage time), or Rex averaging about 7 in the first 3 quarters?

 

If I told you our backs were going to have about 7-9 rushes in the first 3 quarters against Washington would you be thrilled? How would you gameplan if you were Washington?

 

Another response just for you old friend......here's NU's 1st down results vs the bulldogs from (HTO) on rivals.....

 

1st down rush vs FSW

5 yards

-3 yards

57 yards

2 yards

1 yard (TD so this will be included as a success)

4 yards (although 4 is usually enough, not here as it was 1st & 15)

2 yards

0 yards

38 yards

2 yards (although 2 is not enough, offense gets credit as it was 1st and goal from the 5 - just opposite of the 4 yard gain above - they basically wash each other out)

0 yards

2 yards

-1 yards

2 yards

3 yards

7 yards

2 yards

 

I think you'll see the problem now......the run blocking just isn't there. Not vs stacked boxes anyways.