"Not a true Christian"

[The Dude]

2. The Dude, I like your analogy, but it only works if there is not, in fact, evidence of God. I hope you can understand that there is no such thing as objective evidence, there is only perception of evidence, and you can almost always take one observation and have two different people draw two entirely different conclusions from the same observation. That being said, I have seen a very large and wide-ranging amount of evidence towards the God of the Bible, both internal and external, both natural and supernatural.

Such as?

[bennychico11]

Actually the ultimate irony here is that only AFTER eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil would Adam and Even have had a concept of good and evil. The myth is absurd on every point to begin with, but this absurdity out of all of them and the ridiculous nonsense that dribbles down from it (original sin, Hell, etc.) really takes the cake. Only after committing a sin would Adam and Eve be granted an understanding of what they'd done. What a terrible system.

 

+1...glad I read the rest of the thread before posting the same response.

Original sin...or simply punishing the child for the father's sin (or in this case, the child's child's child's child's child's twice removed, etc). Makes no moral sense. If this is morality for this god, I don't think I want to be a part of it.

 

If you really read these stories and think about the tribes and traditions of the time when these stories were written...it really sounds more like the stories were adapted to what the current culture was at the time. Hence why the god of the old testament was a very different god than what he is portrayed in the new testament as.

[bennychico11]

2. The Dude, I like your analogy, but it only works if there is not, in fact, evidence of God. I hope you can understand that there is no such thing as objective evidence, there is only perception of evidence, and you can almost always take one observation and have two different people draw two entirely different conclusions from the same observation. That being said, I have seen a very large and wide-ranging amount of evidence towards the God of the Bible, both internal and external, both natural and supernatural.

 

I would disagree with that. Objective evidence is demonstrable...something that can be independently verified as testable and repeatable. An example: gravity. We have objective evidence that gravity is true. And unfortunately, quoting the Bible isn't evidence that a god is.

 

"If you're positing a god that can and does interact with reality, then there will be evidence for this (otherwise, how would you know any interaction had taken place). We can, and do, test psychics and investigate all sorts of supernatural claims.

If you're positing a god that doesn't interact with reality... why? That which doesn't manifest is indistinguishable from that which doesn't exist."

 

 

3. Hammerhead, if you're asking that question with Christianity in mind, the entire point of what Jesus taught is that we aren't good at all. We are worthless, and are incapable of doing good, and we need the forgiveness and sacrifice of a savior. So the answer to your question is no, you are not a good person, no matter what.

 

Which goes all back to "original sin." Again, NOT a worship-able trait to have as a god. That we are born sinful from the get-go. I don't care what a god says, if I had a child...from that moment that child came into this world, I would say that child is perfect in every absolute way.

[Landlord]

2. The Dude, I like your analogy, but it only works if there is not, in fact, evidence of God. I hope you can understand that there is no such thing as objective evidence, there is only perception of evidence, and you can almost always take one observation and have two different people draw two entirely different conclusions from the same observation. That being said, I have seen a very large and wide-ranging amount of evidence towards the God of the Bible, both internal and external, both natural and supernatural.

Such as?

 

 

Natural

* The creation of the universe (Including the Big Bang, the 1st law of thermodynamics, etc.)

* Complexity and intricacy of life, specifically amino acids/proteins and humans (I'm no creationist, but via evolution as a mechanism, I guess this could be a sub-point of the first one)

* Moral code

* Messianic prophecy

* The fact that the 3-year ministry and teachings of a 30-something year old nobody carpenter from a hick town who claimed He was God incarnate and went toe-to-toe with the religious leaders of the day and who was shamefully murdered, scorned and rejected, have become the predominant faith-based teaching in the entire world and have had immeasurable impact on the 2000+ years since His life.

 

 

Supernatural

 

* Stirring of the Holy Spirit, a sort of "supernatural guiding"

* Consistent prayer (when done with God's will in mind and not selfish desires) yielding results, consistent with God's supposed nature in the Bible

* Believers speaking in tongues

* Visible physical healing (one example would be a woman at camp had her foot smashed, swollen like crazy, black and blue and purple, people started praying and laying hands on her and I saw her foot become healthy)

* Claims of thousands of people throughout time to have glimpsed heaven, audibly heard the Lord, had after-death experiences subsequent to having been resuscitated, etc.

* The general quality, freedom and joy found in my life and the lives of so many people I know personally the closer we supposedly feel to our Lord.

 

 

Just a few examples. I see these things and I see God, you see these things and you see whatever your bias leads you to see. If you live in the desert all your life, and I come to you and tell you of this magical place far away where there is no sand but white snow, freezing temperatures, white bears and frozen water (heck, water in and of itself), of course you won't ever take those claims seriously, because you've never seen any of those things. Similarly, if you live in your own world apart from God, you won't ever find evidence of Him.

[Sub-Husker]

Actually the ultimate irony here is that only AFTER eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil would Adam and Even have had a concept of good and evil. The myth is absurd on every point to begin with, but this absurdity out of all of them and the ridiculous nonsense that dribbles down from it (original sin, Hell, etc.) really takes the cake. Only after committing a sin would Adam and Eve be granted an understanding of what they'd done. What a terrible system.

 

+1...glad I read the rest of the thread before posting the same response.

 

Original sin...or simply punishing the child for the father's sin (or in this case, the child's child's child's child's child's twice removed, etc). Makes no moral sense. If this is morality for this god, I don't think I want to be a part of it.

 

If you really read these stories and think about the tribes and traditions of the time when these stories were written...it really sounds more like the stories were adapted to what the current culture was at the time. Hence why the god of the old testament was a very different god than what he is portrayed in the new testament as.

 

Original Sin is not from the Bible, it came from the fertile mind of Saint Augustine.

[The Dude]

2. The Dude, I like your analogy, but it only works if there is not, in fact, evidence of God. I hope you can understand that there is no such thing as objective evidence, there is only perception of evidence, and you can almost always take one observation and have two different people draw two entirely different conclusions from the same observation. That being said, I have seen a very large and wide-ranging amount of evidence towards the God of the Bible, both internal and external, both natural and supernatural.

Such as?

 

 

Natural

* The creation of the universe (Including the Big Bang, the 1st law of thermodynamics, etc.)

* Complexity and intricacy of life, specifically amino acids/proteins and humans (I'm no creationist, but via evolution as a mechanism, I guess this could be a sub-point of the first one)

* Moral code

* Messianic prophecy

* The fact that the 3-year ministry and teachings of a 30-something year old nobody carpenter from a hick town who claimed He was God incarnate and went toe-to-toe with the religious leaders of the day and who was shamefully murdered, scorned and rejected, have become the predominant faith-based teaching in the entire world and have had immeasurable impact on the 2000+ years since His life.

 

 

Supernatural

 

* Stirring of the Holy Spirit, a sort of "supernatural guiding"

* Consistent prayer (when done with God's will in mind and not selfish desires) yielding results, consistent with God's supposed nature in the Bible

* Believers speaking in tongues

* Visible physical healing (one example would be a woman at camp had her foot smashed, swollen like crazy, black and blue and purple, people started praying and laying hands on her and I saw her foot become healthy)

* Claims of thousands of people throughout time to have glimpsed heaven, audibly heard the Lord, had after-death experiences subsequent to having been resuscitated, etc.

* The general quality, freedom and joy found in my life and the lives of so many people I know personally the closer we supposedly feel to our Lord.

 

 

Just a few examples. I see these things and I see God, you see these things and you see whatever your bias leads you to see. If you live in the desert all your life, and I come to you and tell you of this magical place far away where there is no sand but white snow, freezing temperatures, white bears and frozen water (heck, water in and of itself), of course you won't ever take those claims seriously, because you've never seen any of those things. Similarly, if you live in your own world apart from God, you won't ever find evidence of Him.

The difference between trying to prove to me polar bears exist and god exists, is you could just show me a picture or take me to a zoo and say "look, a polar bear". I'm reasonable enough to say, "gee willikers Landlord, you're right." With a god, there's no physical, testable evidence of any kind. You claim the Big Bang is evidence of a god's existence, but it certainly isn't. God has always been applied to things we don't really understand. Thousands of years ago it was volcanos, thunderstorms, ect. now it's a cosmological event. Where will he hide next? You claim the complexity of life is evidence of a god's existence, but as amazing as it is, doesn't it really just prove that life is really complex?

[Husker_x]

Actually the ultimate irony here is that only AFTER eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil would Adam and Even have had a concept of good and evil. The myth is absurd on every point to begin with, but this absurdity out of all of them and the ridiculous nonsense that dribbles down from it (original sin, Hell, etc.) really takes the cake. Only after committing a sin would Adam and Eve be granted an understanding of what they'd done. What a terrible system.

 

+1...glad I read the rest of the thread before posting the same response.

 

Original sin...or simply punishing the child for the father's sin (or in this case, the child's child's child's child's child's twice removed, etc). Makes no moral sense. If this is morality for this god, I don't think I want to be a part of it.

 

If you really read these stories and think about the tribes and traditions of the time when these stories were written...it really sounds more like the stories were adapted to what the current culture was at the time. Hence why the god of the old testament was a very different god than what he is portrayed in the new testament as.

 

Original Sin is not from the Bible, it came from the fertile mind of Saint Augustine.

 

The term isn't in the bible. However Pauline doctrine, particularly Romans 5, seems to make it pretty clear.

[strigori]

A question I always love to get into is about what happens to members of other faiths when they die.

 

Many Christians will tell you that say, a Buddhist who lived a perfectly moral life will go to hell after they die. I always find this perplexing.

 

There are still tribes in Africa that have no knowledge of how the outside world functions. How would a person born into that society learn of Christianity? Are they doomed to go to hell?

For that matter, what about all of the Native Americans, Asians, Pacific Islanders and so on, who were born after Christ, but do to distance from the Middle east had no knowledge of even the existence of Christianity? Millions of people across centuries all got damned to hell do to where on the planet God chose to put them? Talk about a cruel entity.

[Landlord]

A question I always love to get into is about what happens to members of other faiths when they die.

 

Many Christians will tell you that say, a Buddhist who lived a perfectly moral life will go to hell after they die. I always find this perplexing.

 

There are still tribes in Africa that have no knowledge of how the outside world functions. How would a person born into that society learn of Christianity? Are they doomed to go to hell?

For that matter, what about all of the Native Americans, Asians, Pacific Islanders and so on, who were born after Christ, but do to distance from the Middle east had no knowledge of even the existence of Christianity? Millions of people across centuries all got damned to hell do to where on the planet God chose to put them? Talk about a cruel entity.

 

 

The biblical answer to this is pretty simple. As I mentioned earlier, Romans makes it known that the existence of God is proven and obvious by the world itself, "so that people are without excuse". If you combine this thought with the thought of "Okay, I know there is something or someone that created all this and I desperately desire to know the truth behind and appreciate whatever this is", then God will provide that truth to you, either through other people, divine revelation or any other means, as evidenced in Acts 8. Bilquis Sheikh, Jayapradha Bendela and Sammy Morris all testify to supernatural revelations of God without human intervention.

 

Even if this isn't the answer, there are alternatives. One big thing to note is that the time of Jesus on Earth is irrelevant - people were saved by faith in Him before, during and after He lived on Earth - otherwise everyone that lived before Him would be in Hell as well. All humans came from somewhere, and if God were to exist then that knowledge of Him has existed since the beginning of time and thus since the beginning of humanity, which means that all people all over the Earth have descended from their ancestors who knew God or at the very least, knew of Him.

 

Another alternative would be likening those with zero knowledge of the gospel to children - that is, being blameless due to their circumstances, as the Bible puts forth that children without proper understanding of sin and Jesus will be forgiven.

 

If the idea of the Christian God was incompatible with justice and mercy, why would the Native Americans be so so quick to embrace it with such little resistance when it was brought/introduced to them? Most tribes of Native Americans already had belief in one singular deity as creator, a lot of them believed in a world-wide flood, etc. I've actually witnessed a Native American drama that parallels the Cherokee spiritual history with Biblical elements and truths.

[huskerjack23]

2. The Dude, I like your analogy, but it only works if there is not, in fact, evidence of God. I hope you can understand that there is no such thing as objective evidence, there is only perception of evidence, and you can almost always take one observation and have two different people draw two entirely different conclusions from the same observation. That being said, I have seen a very large and wide-ranging amount of evidence towards the God of the Bible, both internal and external, both natural and supernatural.

Such as?

 

 

Natural

* The creation of the universe (Including the Big Bang, the 1st law of thermodynamics, etc.) How do you know God did it?

* Complexity and intricacy of life, specifically amino acids/proteins and humans (I'm no creationist, but via evolution as a mechanism, I guess this could be a sub-point of the first one) Would a moral and just God create hunger, terminal illness, stillborn deaths?

* Moral code God killed millions of people in the bible, including having a bear maul children because they called a man bald. Slavery was also condoned in the bible.

* Messianic prophecy Based on faith from a 2000 year old book, that hopefully wasn't fabricated to fit the writer's agenda, fulfilling a well-known prophecy for gain.

* The fact that the 3-year ministry and teachings of a 30-something year old nobody carpenter from a hick town who claimed He was God incarnate and went toe-to-toe with the religious leaders of the day and who was shamefully murdered, scorned and rejected, have become the predominant faith-based teaching in the entire world and have had immeasurable impact on the 2000+ years since His life. Just because something is popular, doesn't make it fact.

 

 

Supernatural

 

* Stirring of the Holy Spirit, a sort of "supernatural guiding" Did you think that it might be your own thoughts guiding you?

* Consistent prayer (when done with God's will in mind and not selfish desires) yielding results, consistent with God's supposed nature in the Bible

* Believers speaking in tongues God's nature is of your own determination. Your beliefs aren't different from most Christians but they obviously differ. His will is basically yours. Also, praying has statistically shown to be as good as a coin flip.

* Visible physical healing (one example would be a woman at camp had her foot smashed, swollen like crazy, black and blue and purple, people started praying and laying hands on her and I saw her foot become healthy) Why doesn't God cure an amputee?

* Claims of thousands of people throughout time to have glimpsed heaven, audibly heard the Lord, had after-death experiences subsequent to having been resuscitated, etc. Near-death experiences are shown to be either hallucinating due to drugs or parts of the brain dying, going haywire, etc. Personal experience is also not a great claim of evidence. You wouldn't believe me if I told you I talked to Winston Churchill everyday. You'd need more evidence.

* The general quality, freedom and joy found in my life and the lives of so many people I know personally the closer we supposedly feel to our Lord.

 

 

Just a few examples. I see these things and I see God, you see these things and you see whatever your bias leads you to see. If you live in the desert all your life, and I come to you and tell you of this magical place far away where there is no sand but white snow, freezing temperatures, white bears and frozen water (heck, water in and of itself), of course you won't ever take those claims seriously, because you've never seen any of those things. Similarly, if you live in your own world apart from God, you won't ever find evidence of Him.

[PuegotDaddy]

You know I wondered why Knappic as a moderator would give me a warning for slapping down a Wisconsin troll who posted " tear down Memorial stadium " and then removed a posting of mine that stood up for the NU Gray haired fans , who younger fans are now saying dont yell loud enough. In fact I was told I had STRIKE ONE.

But after reading this post by Knappic I NOW GET IT , Knappic is either an agnostic or an athiest. That explains alot ... As I am famous for sticking up for the bible and our Maker. I was wondering what I had done to get Knappics ire , and now I have figured it out. It just goes to show that ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.

Oh well , I will let Knappic make Anti Christian statements like that , and let him lead his own life like he does , and I will lead my life through Christ , and that is good enough for myself.

I guess what it comes down to is on any board you post on , the mods have their perks and beliefs and instead of exchanging thoughtful talk about it , they cant hang with someone who shoots down their own views on life. Usually what I find is those on these boards who shoot down their own MAKERS rules on life , is that THEY LEAD AN ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE , THAT THE BIBLE AND OUR SOCIETY LOOKS AT AS PERVERSE. Isnt it funny that the ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE CROWD always finds so much wrong with the Bible and their MAKERS RULES , when actually it comes down to Gods and the Bibles views and rules as far as what is NATURAL AND WHAT IS PERVERSE ? Things that make you go hmmmm...

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

So they group together on these websites and try and throw their own perverse lifestyle on others , WHO KNOW BETTER . What a punk ... Great Red One is moving on , hope you all have a great holiday season , and just remember , DONT TAKE THE CHRIST OUT OF CHRISTMAS .... Now go ahead and ban me or whatever makes your day Knappic , cause in the end , ( THE GREAT MODERATOR ) God will deal with you ...

DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER . Oh by the way , Knappic took down a posting of mine that basically said without any foul language that the Blue hairs that bought and paid for Memorial stadium and Husker football are now the ones some are saying should find other places to go . I said that the Blue hairs are responsible for Husker football AS IT IS TODAY , and that every positive thing that has happened to Husker football was a result of their patience and filling up memorial stadium before any of these young punks saw a football game in the 90s. I ended by saying , as far as Husker Football goes , LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Well , Knappic basically told me the same thing so my last words on this board are , I do love God , Family and Husker Football , and as far as LEAVE IT , I will leave the rest of you here with the ALTERNATE LIFESTYLES CROWD and every positive thing THAT WILL GET YOU .

GREAT RED ONE HAS LEFT THE BUILDING ..

 

Who put the Tree in the Garden of Eden? Why even put it there?

 

 

You're changing the subject but I am not intelligent enough to tell you why an all knowing God would do that. That would be conjecture on my part. Only God knows and I think I will wait a little while until I ask him.

 

No, I'm showing you that the concept of a loving God is not possible in the context of the Bible. Simple, unavoidable facts based on Christian theology:

 

God is Omnipotent

God created heaven and earth

There is no sin in heaven

God placed man on earth, NOT heaven

When created, Man had no sin

God placed the Tree in the presence of man

Man then sinned

God said, "You are OUT!" and cast man from the Garden

 

This would be akin to placing an infant next to a fire and saying, don't touch! The infant can't not touch - it's in their nature. The infant can't grasp the danger, can't understand your warning. But you're a loving parent for putting your child next to a fire? No, you're a terrible parent. You'd be convicted in any court for doing this.

 

But it gets even better. Because what you're actually going to do is not simply allow that infant to be burned, you're also going to burn every child that descends from that infant, forever, simply because the first infant burned themselves. Out of the womb, into the fire. Does this sound like the behavior of a loving God? It doesn't to me.

 

If God truly loves each and every man, then why would he ever place man in this position, where we can't earn our way into Heaven, but we can VERY EASILY earn our way into Hell?

 

Would you treat your child like this?

[Sub-Husker]

Original Sin is not from the Bible, it came from the fertile mind of Saint Augustine.

 

The term isn't in the bible. However Pauline doctrine, particularly Romans 5, seems to make it pretty clear.

 

Paul's statement that sin entered the world was stretched by Augustine to attribute all newly born infants with the sins of previous generations. That may be official church dogma, but I don't and can't buy into that.

 

Second, personally I have a major concern with the recognition of Saul/Paul as someone who has any authority to teach about Jesus, His spiritual nature, or what He considered to be sin.

[Sub-Husker]

Another alternative would be likening those with zero knowledge of the gospel to children - that is, being blameless due to their circumstances, as the Bible puts forth that children without proper understanding of sin and Jesus will be forgiven.

 

I find statements like this to be confusing.

 

Are you referring to the Gospel as the actual teachings of Jesus as stated in the four books, or the Gospel as the "good news" redefined and added to by the church?

[knapplc]

You know I wondered why Knappic as a moderator would give me a warning for slapping down a Wisconsin troll who posted " tear down Memorial stadium " and then removed a posting of mine that stood up for the NU Gray haired fans , who younger fans are now saying dont yell loud enough. In fact I was told I had STRIKE ONE.

But after reading this post by Knappic I NOW GET IT , Knappic is either an agnostic or an athiest. That explains alot ... As I am famous for sticking up for the bible and our Maker. I was wondering what I had done to get Knappics ire , and now I have figured it out. It just goes to show that ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.

Oh well , I will let Knappic make Anti Christian statements like that , and let him lead his own life like he does , and I will lead my life through Christ , and that is good enough for myself.

I guess what it comes down to is on any board you post on , the mods have their perks and beliefs and instead of exchanging thoughtful talk about it , they cant hang with someone who shoots down their own views on life. Usually what I find is those on these boards who shoot down their own MAKERS rules on life , is that THEY LEAD AN ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE , THAT THE BIBLE AND OUR SOCIETY LOOKS AT AS PERVERSE. Isnt it funny that the ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE CROWD always finds so much wrong with the Bible and their MAKERS RULES , when actually it comes down to Gods and the Bibles views and rules as far as what is NATURAL AND WHAT IS PERVERSE ? Things that make you go hmmmm...

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

So they group together on these websites and try and throw their own perverse lifestyle on others , WHO KNOW BETTER . What a punk ... Great Red One is moving on , hope you all have a great holiday season , and just remember , DONT TAKE THE CHRIST OUT OF CHRISTMAS .... Now go ahead and ban me or whatever makes your day Knappic , cause in the end , ( THE GREAT MODERATOR ) God will deal with you ...

DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER . Oh by the way , Knappic took down a posting of mine that basically said without any foul language that the Blue hairs that bought and paid for Memorial stadium and Husker football are now the ones some are saying should find other places to go . I said that the Blue hairs are responsible for Husker football AS IT IS TODAY , and that every positive thing that has happened to Husker football was a result of their patience and filling up memorial stadium before any of these young punks saw a football game in the 90s. I ended by saying , as far as Husker Football goes , LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Well , Knappic basically told me the same thing so my last words on this board are , I do love God , Family and Husker Football , and as far as LEAVE IT , I will leave the rest of you here with the ALTERNATE LIFESTYLES CROWD and every positive thing THAT WILL GET YOU .

GREAT RED ONE HAS LEFT THE BUILDING ..

 

 

You got "my ire" because you broke board rules by attacking another member. You have not been banned, you have simply overreacted to a very cordial message that told you to calm down. Further, your post wasn't removed - you posted a rant, then decided that wasn't enough and started another thread where you copied/pasted the wall of text again. I removed the second post (your thread). It was self-aggrandizing nonsense that didn't belong in the football forums, and it certainly didn't need its own thread.

[johnnyrodgers20]

God placed us here to have a personal relationship with him we could have had all we wanted and everlasting life. But Eve decided they were smarter than God and talked Adam into eating from the tree of knowledge (sometimes called the tree of good and evil). You assume he just put us here to suffer. He placed us in the Garden of Eden (Eutopia) but man messed up the contract with God. So we were cast out of Eden much like you would punish your child. Now I believe God is treating us like an adult child, if you have a child who lives on their own now can you protect them every day. Can you tell them how they should act what to do with their money and so on. God is allowing us to have free choice, we know the consequences of our actions. All of the suffering is caused by man's refusal to abide by God and his laws. It is not by God that we are in this cesspool but by our own actions.

 

Unfortunately, this fails at the first sentence. We can't have a personal relationship with God on Earth because he isn't here interacting with us. To have a personal relationship with God we need to go to Heaven, where there is no sin and hence, no separation from God, ever, for anyone. The very fact that we are here on Earth obviates God, who loves us unconditionally, yet places us on Earth, the only place where we can earn our way out of Heaven.

 

We are God's children, correct? Which of your children would you put in a cave, away from every material advantage you could possibly give them, and - more crucially - away from your presence?

 

 

I believe what johnnyrodgers20 is getting at, and I may be wrong so I'm not speaking for him, is that Earth was intended to be our place of dwelling with God, and that Adam and Eve, or the first humans, depending on how you view creation and etc., had intimacy with God and God was present on Earth (you know in Revelation how it talks about the new Earth and the millennial kingdom? Heaven isn't the last stop according to Scripture, Earth is, which leads me to believe Earth was meant to be the only stop originally), but that through the destruction and disease of sin, our physiological and spiritual nature became crippled, denying us the ability to directly and intimately have relationship and fellowship with our creator.

 

 

 

Note: This isn't my argument, although some elements of it I would be prone to using (a lot I'm on the fence with, because it's a good and tough question), I'm just projecting what I believe johnnyrodgers20 to have been getting at.

 

 

 

As far as other things said in this thread, I just have a few quick things.

 

1. The Universal Life Church is dreadful, sinful and heretical, and while it's a sad thing to see stuff like that exist, what's even more sad is that it's in response to the lack of Christ-like love displayed by His followers worldwide - myself included.

 

2. The Dude, I like your analogy, but it only works if there is not, in fact, evidence of God. I hope you can understand that there is no such thing as objective evidence, there is only perception of evidence, and you can almost always take one observation and have two different people draw two entirely different conclusions from the same observation. That being said, I have seen a very large and wide-ranging amount of evidence towards the God of the Bible, both internal and external, both natural and supernatural.

 

Romans 1:20-21 says "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened." So, using your same argument, I could make the point that God is easily and obviously evidence by the world, and it was only by our jaded and selfish desires that we exchanged the truth of God for a lie, but it's okay because it doesn't affect anyone, right? But it does affect everyone; because of the lies of the world people don't know Jesus and haven't received the gift of salvation, and people that do are persecuted all over the world. Like you said, wouldn't it be irresponsible of me to let these lies that have eternal consequences be told and promoted, and go unchallenged? This isn't necessarily directed towards you, unless you fall into the category of people who criticize those of faith for being narrow-minded and intolerant - it's directed towards them.

 

 

 

3. Hammerhead, if you're asking that question with Christianity in mind, the entire point of what Jesus taught is that we aren't good at all. We are worthless, and are incapable of doing good, and we need the forgiveness and sacrifice of a savior. So the answer to your question is no, you are not a good person, no matter what.

 

I am humbled by a more articulate person who defined my thoughts much better than I!!!