Trayvon Martin and "Stand Your Ground" in FL

[Excel]

I think that Zimmerman is telling the truth about this kid assaulting him.

 

That could be true. But it's also likely true that Zimmerman probably wouldn't have been assaulted had he not followed Martin, as he was instructed by the 911 operator. It's also likely true that Martin would be alive today if Zimmerman didn't have a gun. Lots and lots and lots of unknowns at this moment, which is why I'm reserving judgment at this time.

1. Zimmerman was an idiot for following this kid.

2. Zimmerman was completely within his rights to follow this kid.

3. I also am reserving my judgement...or at least reserving the right to change my judgement. Not that at matters. Thank god we live live in a country where, for the most part, public opinion can't convict someone. People may despise the "system" and bureaucracy but life would be hell without them.

['SkersRule]

Bucky you're taking the whole "troll" comment, that one person made, a little too far aren't you?

[knapplc]

What does the "Bucky/troll" conversation have to do with this? What am I missing?

['SkersRule]

Just responding to Bucky's sig...

 

[Excel]

Just responding to Bucky's sig...

 

Just embracing the hate.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I didn't say law enforcement should take race into account, I'm saying they do. Claiming that police or any other form of 'security' never use racial bias in making decisions in just naive.

You don't think police or security ever racial profile? We're on the same team BRI . . . but I've seen plenty of scientific and anecdotal evidence that says otherwise.

 

I don't mean that as an attack on the police. The majority of officers that I deal with are consumate professionals.

I can only speak for myself and what I've observed and I've NEVER come across any of my fellow officers who have racially profiled anyone. All the officers I'm around could give **** if your yellow, brown, white, black, red...........whatever. Stupid comes in all colors of the rainbow and if you're stupid enough we'll take you to where your kind hangs out...............the county jail. The whole racial profiling argument is dumb as hell and I get sick and tired of hearing it.

['SkersRule]

Just responding to Bucky's sig...

 

Just embracing the hate.

 

Embrace the love...it costs less, and you're less likely to need therapy.

[Muck]

The professional black men.

 

Your attempt to bate me into a racial conundrum shows you missed the point I was getting at. Three white "thugs" intimidate me equally as three black "thugs", given their clothing and mannerisms are constant. It's the culture itself that breads the stereotypes.

 

The problem is that you started discussing racial profiling and then gave an example that isn't a case of racial profiling. You were discussing avoiding one group because of their skin color but rather because of their outward behavior.

 

While that type of profiling is by far the most prevalent, the type that most people think of in cases like this is more along the lines of the black man driving a nice car being pulled over in a nice neighborhood (with the implication being that a black man in a nice car looks suspicious).

 

 

You're missing the point here, but would you see George Zimmerman walking down the street and say "hey look at that white guy!" Uhhh no

 

You did a poor job making your point. The President isn't 'BLACK' because it fits the agenda of various parties.

 

Zimmerman wouldn't look out of place at all if he were hanging out with my cousins at a family reunion...and our family tree has no roots in the Caribbean, Central or South America. Or to put it another way, stuff Zimmerman into some Realtree or Mossy Oak & plop him down in a Wal-Mart in West Virginia and no one is going to look at him twice.

 

Again that takes us back to where we started ultimately it doesn't matter whether Zimmerman's parents are both of European or Hispanic descent or whether one is from each and which one is from where....the only that matter is whether or not he acted within the law.

[Enhance]

The professional black men.

 

Your attempt to bate me into a racial conundrum shows you missed the point I was getting at. Three white "thugs" intimidate me equally as three black "thugs", given their clothing and mannerisms are constant. It's the culture itself that breads the stereotypes.

 

The problem is that you started discussing racial profiling and then gave an example that isn't a case of racial profiling. You were discussing avoiding one group because of their skin color but rather because of their outward behavior.

 

While that type of profiling is by far the most prevalent, the type that most people think of in cases like this is more along the lines of the black man driving a nice car being pulled over in a nice neighborhood (with the implication being that a black man in a nice car looks suspicious).

True enough. I'll amend my opinion a bit here.

 

It so happens that black people make up the majority of the thug culture. Although my example dealt more with a culture than a specific skin color, I think my overwhelming point still holds true - black citizens have been unfairly stereotyped and criminalized in many cases, but there are thousands of members of the black community who have exemplified these stereotypes, thus making them the subjects of unfair criminalization. People don't think about white thugs often, they think about black thugs, because that's the majority of the culture. I have absolutely no problem with blacks, hispanics, asians, etc., but I have huge problems with the thug/gangster culture (which is, again, dominated by blacks).

 

Take North Omaha, for example - a predominantly black citizen base with a high crime rate and the highest murder rate in America. Fewer white people live in North Omaha than any other part, and every other part of Omaha has far less crime. If a predominantly black part of town has high murder rate, and a predominantly white part of town doesn't, this doesn't fit racial stereotyping.

 

Overall, I'm not saying law enforcement don't make poor decisions based race, but I also don't think they do it as often as some people suggest.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

The professional black men.

 

Your attempt to bate me into a racial conundrum shows you missed the point I was getting at. Three white "thugs" intimidate me equally as three black "thugs", given their clothing and mannerisms are constant. It's the culture itself that breads the stereotypes.

 

The problem is that you started discussing racial profiling and then gave an example that isn't a case of racial profiling. You were discussing avoiding one group because of their skin color but rather because of their outward behavior.

 

While that type of profiling is by far the most prevalent, the type that most people think of in cases like this is more along the lines of the black man driving a nice car being pulled over in a nice neighborhood (with the implication being that a black man in a nice car looks suspicious).

 

 

You're missing the point here, but would you see George Zimmerman walking down the street and say "hey look at that white guy!" Uhhh no

 

You did a poor job making your point. The President isn't 'BLACK' because it fits the agenda of various parties.

 

Zimmerman wouldn't look out of place at all if he were hanging out with my cousins at a family reunion...and our family tree has no roots in the Caribbean, Central or South America. Or to put it another way, stuff Zimmerman into some Realtree or Mossy Oak & plop him down in a Wal-Mart in West Virginia and no one is going to look at him twice.

 

Again that takes us back to where we started ultimately it doesn't matter whether Zimmerman's parents are both of European or Hispanic descent or whether one is from each and which one is from where....the only that matter is whether or not he acted within the law.

 

Exactly. If Zimmerman acted within the law (which I can't yet see how he did by shooting the kid, but we'll have to wait for more evidence to come out for me to make that judgement) then there is no "hate" crime, it was merely out of what I guess would be called self-defense.

 

There could be a couple of reasons why Zimmerman followed Trayvon that evening. For anyone to say it's absolutely 100% definitely for sure without a doubt that because Trayvon was African-American and wearing a hood, that that was the reason Zimmerman followed him, is inaccurate given the evidence shown. It is about as inaccurate as saying he didn't follow him purely because Trayvon was African-American. There could be no racial intent, there could've been racial intent. We don't know.

 

Perhaps it's our nations tendency to view everything along the lines as this incident as racial stereotyping that leads to discussions like these. For example, when someone of a different ethnicity (let's say Hispanic, for sake of ease) is turned down for a job a majority of people close to the friend are going to view it as, "because I'm a Latino." Most often than not it's, "because the other person is more qualified." If you were in the interviewer's position, wouldn't you want to hire the most qualified person regardless of ethnicity?

[johnnyrodgers20]

I think that Zimmerman is telling the truth about this kid assaulting him.

 

That could be true. But it's also likely true that Zimmerman probably wouldn't have been assaulted had he not followed Martin, as he was instructed by the 911 operator. It's also likely true that Martin would be alive today if Zimmerman didn't have a gun. Lots and lots and lots of unknowns at this moment, which is why I'm reserving judgment at this time.

 

While that may be true would Zimmerman be alive today? Many people die from being assaulted without a deadly weapon!!

[carlfense]

Uh oh.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/29/george-zimmerman-video-outrage-where-are-injuries-from-travyon-fight.html

[VectorVictor]

ABC News is the original source that obtained the police video of Zimmerman arriving at the police station after the Trayvon Martin incident.

 

http://abcnews.go.co...llance-16024475

 

Yeah, I'm thinking the whole 'Zimmerman was defending himself' argument just went out the window. If this is indeed video of Zimmerman immediately after the Trayvon Martin incident, it shows nothing of the wet, grass-stained clothing, broken nose, or cuts and bleeding to the back of the head that supposedly existed per the Police Report.

 

I guess the question is...why are the police covering for Zimmerman? No drug/alcohol test, a (likely) falsified police report of the attack, Trayvon's body sitting in the police morgue for three days w/o letting his own parents know while it was drug and alcohol tested.

 

This isn't adding up well.

[carlfense]

<snip>

I guess the question is...why are the police covering for Zimmerman?

<snip>

 

Maybe they are covering for themselves.

[Green Lantern]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/paper-spike-lee-tweeted-incorrect-george-zimmerman-address-possibly-putting-sanford-woman-in-danger/ and now this. could of gotten this woman killed spike. Nice going

 

I tweeted Spike Lee's address. Har.