tschu Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Boy that whole thing where this hood rat black kid got shot by this guy is crazy, no? Link to comment
Muck Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Boy that whole thing where this hood rat black kid got shot by this guy is crazy, no? Link to comment
The Dude Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Okay, so here's the burning question I have and it has nothing to do with race or even the law in Florida: So, Trayvon assaults Mr. Zimmerman, regardless of the law in Florida, is it even morally right for him, in response to shoot and kill the kid point blank? Generally, if you're minding your own business, and someone assaults you, I see no problem with using lethal force to defend yourself. The thing that makes me think that this specific situation is not okay is it seems that Zimmerman was basically harassing the guy, so he probably deserved to get the sh#t beat out of him. Link to comment
carlfense Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 Plus we know that Martin was armed with nothing more than a bottle of tea and a bag of skittles. ...while carl comes fully loaded with red herring. You forgot to mention he was wearing a hoodie which is how we know it was a racially motivated incident. It's not so much a red herring as it is a fact. Link to comment
Muck Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 It's not so much a red herring as it is a fact. The problem is that you keep repeating it as if it is an overly relevant fact. It isn't. If you are on the ground being beaten and fear for your life, the teddy bear in your assailant's pocket isn't going to help you out any. That is completely aside from the fact that a 20oz glass bottle can be quite effective as a lethal implement in it's own right. There are really only a couple of issues that are relevant in the self defense case of Zimmerman. 1 - Did Zimmerman or Martin instigate the physical confrontation. 2 - Did Zimmerman have a legitimate reason to fear that he may suffer serious injury at the hands of Martin. Ultimately everything else is just noise. Link to comment
carlfense Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 It's not so much a red herring as it is a fact. The problem is that you keep repeating it as if it is an overly relevant fact. It isn't. If you are on the ground being beaten and fear for your life, the teddy bear in your assailant's pocket isn't going to help you out any. That is completely aside from the fact that a 20oz glass bottle can be quite effective as a lethal implement in it's own right. There are really only a couple of issues that are relevant in the self defense case of Zimmerman. 1 - Did Zimmerman or Martin instigate the physical confrontation. 2 - Did Zimmerman have a legitimate reason to fear that he may suffer serious injury at the hands of Martin. Ultimately everything else is just noise. Are you arguing that the items carried by Martin are not relevant to the bold? They most certainly are. Also, there is a quite a bit of difference between "not overly relevant" and "irrelevant." Link to comment
Excel Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Let's listen to a voice of a reason. Let's not post videos like that in the regular forums. That's a woodshed video. - knapplc Link to comment
Mavric Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 It's nice we have such great news coverage to help get out the "facts": NBC to probe its handling of a Trayvon Martin news report I wonder if it was the same NBC editor who "accidentally" edited "Under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance? Link to comment
carlfense Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 It's nice we have such great news coverage to help get out the "facts": NBC to probe its handling of a Trayvon Martin news report I wonder if it was the same NBC editor who "accidentally" edited "Under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance? That's a really bad story. Yikes. The "under god" thing is more understandable. Maybe they just thought it was pre-1954? Link to comment
It'sNotAFakeID Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 It's not so much a red herring as it is a fact. The problem is that you keep repeating it as if it is an overly relevant fact. It isn't. If you are on the ground being beaten and fear for your life, the teddy bear in your assailant's pocket isn't going to help you out any. That is completely aside from the fact that a 20oz glass bottle can be quite effective as a lethal implement in it's own right. There are really only a couple of issues that are relevant in the self defense case of Zimmerman. 1 - Did Zimmerman or Martin instigate the physical confrontation. 2 - Did Zimmerman have a legitimate reason to fear that he may suffer serious injury at the hands of Martin. Ultimately everything else is just noise. Better yet, would Zimmerman, HAD HE LISTENED TO THE AUTHORITIES and NOT FOLLOWED THE KID, even find himself in that situation where the bold becomes relevant. If he didn't follow the kid, chances are Trayvon walks out of his neighborhood and is still alive today. Link to comment
gobiggergoredder Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I made a bad choice a few years back and bought a real nice house that was surrounded by a real bad areas. Later made sense as to why it was cheap. Several houses in our neighborhood started getting broken into. Many in the neighborhood saw individuals they considered suspicious. One morning (real early), on my way to work, I left my home to see a young individual riding a bike. It didn't make a lot of sense to me. As he rode past my house, I grew a little concerned. I got in my car and caught up with him. I politely asked him how he was doing. I told him I hadn't seen him before and asked if he was new in the neighborhood. This conversation went on for about 30 more seconds before there was a gun in my face. Had my neighbor not walked around the corner with her dog, I'd probably be done. He shot at my neighbor and took off running. I have little doubt that she saved my life. All because some teen hood dirtbag was looking for someone/someplace to make trouble. I followed this puke because I left my house with my wife and kids inside it. I took a lot of crap for the way I handled this situation. I had a lot of people ask me why I confronted the kid. I couldn't drive away from my front neighborhood wondering if my family was in danger. You can go and hide or you can address the problem. None of you will ever know what I went through just because I asked what was going on. It is the only time in my life I have seen true hate and anger in someone's eyes. I don't know what happened with Trayvon and Zimmerman, but neither do any of you. I just get a kick out of the media showing every baby faced 13 year old picture of Trayvon they can get their hands on. They fail to add that he is was 6'4" and 17 years old. No problem showing Zimmerman in his jumpsuit. Link to comment
gobiggergoredder Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 For example, you have two sidewalks to walk down in North Omaha on a Friday night. One has three white wannabee gangstas look-a-likes with pants down to their knees, shirts four times too large, gold teeth, and flat billed hats. The other sidewalk has three professional black men with fitted clothes, well groomed looks and lack the other accessories the three white trash dudes have (i.e. hats and gold teeth). Which sidewalk do you choose to walk down? What then? The professional black men. Your attempt to bate me into a racial conundrum shows you missed the point I was getting at. Three white "thugs" intimidate me equally as three black "thugs", given their clothing and mannerisms are constant. It's the culture itself that breads the stereotypes. You left out that you have a black friend. Link to comment
Apathy Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 It appears that Zimmerman did have redness and bruising in the surveillance video that when the video first appeared everybody said you he looked fine w/ no visible head injuries that Zimmerman said he suffered. http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-20120403,0,1817516.story Link to comment
knapplc Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 It appears that Zimmerman did have redness and bruising in the surveillance video that when the video first appeared everybody said you he looked fine w/ no visible head injuries that Zimmerman said he suffered. The original surveillance footage was way too grainy for anyone to make any conclusive reports from. The guy could have had bruising all around his neck and it wouldn't have shown well. Still so much information to come out about this situation. Still way too early to get all up in arms over anything. Link to comment
knapplc Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Speaking of "so much information to come out about this situation," here's an excerpt from the report of the first officer on the scene: "While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head." "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SF was attending to Zimmerman, I overheard him state, 'I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.' At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place." LINK Link to comment
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