Affordable Care Act / ObamaCare

['SkersRule]

Why do you wonder why? I don't think the posts I've made on it are complete drivel but you seem to gloss over them every time, so I guess I'll give up posting them so you can keep wondering.

 

I haven't "glossed over" anything. Wait, I'm sorry...I should just realize that when I'm conversing with someone who is on the left whatever they say is automatically 100% correct and I should simply nod my head in blind agreement.

 

Obamacare is the greatest legislation ever produced and only the elite liberal left know what's best for me. Happy?

[krc1995]

I just want confirmation by those so opposed to this bill that they were equally opposed to the Patriot Act back when Bush ramrodded that through congress. Yes? No hypocrisy, right?

 

This is all about big government, not about Democrats vs. Republicans, correct?

the patriot act was a terrible policy, but two wrongs(or more) don't make a right. I do not support the Patriot Act, but to me there is an important distinction. Policies like car insurance(you used that earlier) and the patriot act protect one person's actions from others. Mandated health care and social security taxes assume that the government can take care of you better then you. I am not fully republican so I do not like the partisian split that seems inevitable for every debate. For me, it all comes down to not telling someone else how to live their lives.

[knapplc]

And the answer is because it really wasn't about health care. It's about federal power and health care was simply the vehicle.

 

And it was about "power" when Mitt Romney rammed Romneycare down Massachusetts' throat, right?

[knapplc]

Also, I'll just leave this here.

[Moiraine]

Why do you wonder why? I don't think the posts I've made on it are complete drivel but you seem to gloss over them every time, so I guess I'll give up posting them so you can keep wondering.

 

I haven't "glossed over" anything. Wait, I'm sorry...I should just realize that when I'm conversing with someone who is on the left whatever they say is automatically 100% correct and I should simply nod my head in blind agreement.

 

Obamacare is the greatest legislation ever produced and only the elite liberal left know what's best for me. Happy?

 

You did skip it. You made five or so posts before even bothering to address the points I made and continually asked the same question which I believed I answered. You finally just now replied about them and made a decent enough point. But then you posted this little number. I'm an independent. This great post of yours is more evidence that you skimmed my posts. I already said that I think the bill will increase insurance rates which is something I'm not for.

[AR Husker Fan]

Also, I'll just leave this here.

And that plan, similar to the Affordable Care Act, first originated with the Nixon Administration in 1974, which lacked the individual mandate, but had an employer mandate.

 

LINK

[knapplc]

Also, I'll just leave this here.

And that plan, similar to the Affordable Care Act, first originated with the Nixon Administration in 1974, which lacked the individual mandate, but had an employer mandate.

 

LINK

 

Exactly. There was no uproar from Republicans when Nixon broached the subject 40 years ago. There was no Republican uproar when they brought it up again in 1993. There was no Republican uproar when one of their own Governors passed legislation in 2006.

 

But now that a Democrat has passed a law similar to the ones they've had in the works for decades? End of the world. Big Government. Individual Rights.

 

Makes perfect sense that this is NOT about political affiliation, and is ONLY about what's right and wrong. It's so clear.

[Yossarian]

Also, I'll just leave this here.

And that plan, similar to the Affordable Care Act, first originated with the Nixon Administration in 1974, which lacked the individual mandate, but had an employer mandate.

 

LINK

 

 

 

But now that a Democrat has passed a law similar to the ones they've had in the works for decades? End of the world. Big Government. Individual Rights.

 

 

 

Passing a law and having one "in the works for decades" are two different things.

 

Still, I have decided that it really doesn't matter what happens between now and November - everyone has decided. Do you want more of the same Obama policies or something else. The Obama administration passed the ACA, but has done very little else, and if the 2010 elections are a measure, "something else" might just take the WH, and the Senate, and add to the Republican majority in the House. But then, rejection of the ACA as unconstitutional was supposed to be a slam-dunk, and we know how that turned out. I just want football season to get here.

[walksalone]

I can say with certainty, that this issue has made Americans, on both sides of the aisle, look really stupid...

[krill]

There was no Republican uproar when they brought it up again in 1993. There was no Republican uproar when one of their own Governors passed legislation in 2006.

 

In all fairness John Chafee and his son Lincoln were pretty much the last of the Rockefeller Republicans, economic moderates and socially liberal. I have no idea what the atmosphere was like in 1993, but I'm sure there were plenty of Republicans that were not really interested in reform, yet felt compelled to be part of an alternative to Hilary's plan to look like they were doing something. When reform was accomplished in Massachusetts, there were conservative groups that liked it for Massachusetts, but there was never a push to go national or anything like that. Now they are all worried about tea party backed candidates in primary challenges or pissing off Rush Limbaugh. So there's code talk, like Romney's "plan" being exactly what the ACA does, minus the individual mandate and plus tort reform, without mentioning that is a minefield as difficult as health care reform itself.

[Lil' Red]

I don't quite understand all the outrage at the government's involvement in the health care system. The U.S. is in the small minority of developed countries without some form of universal health care because we, unlike others, aren't able to recognize that health care is an essential public commodity. Many more deaths can be attributed to an absence of health insurance than from terrorist attacks so it is illogical to place a higher priority and grant more leeway on combating terrorism than reforming the health care system.

[knapplc]

Passing a law and having one "in the works for decades" are two different things.

 

This is true. Just ask Mitt Romney, father of Romneycare.

[lo country]

Passing a law and having one "in the works for decades" are two different things.

 

This is true. Just ask Mitt Romney, father of Romneycare.

 

States rights vs the federal government.

 

Have you read the Mass version? I haven't. If we are to truly say that Romney authored in Obamacare, I would like to read significantly more than just the op ed pieces from "journalists". That's just me.

 

Having read audit reports, John Coryns flow chart http://www.ourmoney.net/news-commentary/president-obama-cant-deliver-to-americans-as-promised/

and I just think Rep or Dem passed we lose. Not to mention non partisian CBO reports.

 

With 14.7% real unemployment, 52.4% of recent college grads under or not employed not to mention the housing market collapse I feel there are better ways to spend the money. The latests economic report from the WSJ shows that 75% of Obamacare will be paid for by people making less than 120k per year. A lot less than the promised 250k.

 

This legislation would not have passed except for Stepanak (and approx 40 Blue Dog Dems) crossing over after being promised Federal funds would not be used for abortions. With the current uproar by religious groups it is easy to see how that worked out.

 

Look at the stimulus package....... Started under GW and carried on by Obama. 837 BILLION dollars and no real job creation. The Solandara bailout to bankruptcy. IIRC, the fed Govt owns 16 billion in GM stock. That is the only thing keeping them solvent. Thrown in the govt run monopoly that is the US Postal Service operating yearly (for a significant amount of years) in the red and you see my skepticism about the govt managing my health care. In a free market economy, competition ie desire to make a profit trumps all. How can you compete with the govt? They are not it in to turn a profit. They will soon have a monopoly on insurance. You go with them or paid sky high rates somewhere else. Good luck. You think unemployment is bad now?

 

I like some of what is in the bill. I just can't believe that people truly believe that you can have millions more added to a program and the end users costs won't go up or your services won't go down.

 

Regardless of what is said, by the SCOTUS ruling, it is a tax. If it were not a tax it would have been deemed unconstitutional. Folks can't have it both ways ie a penalty or fine and it being Constitutional.

[knapplc]

Yeah, I can sit here and poke fun at some of the partisan rancor going on, but the reality is - and I think we all know this - this isn't the bill America needs. And I think all but the most hardcore left-wingers among us want smaller, more efficient government.

[Comish]

Passing a law and having one "in the works for decades" are two different things.

 

This is true. Just ask Mitt Romney, father of Romneycare.

Knappic, you seem to have this seething animus toward Romney that is clouding your responses in a way that is different from your usually reasoned analysis.

 

I can't speak for others, but for me the question of what Romney proposed for a STATE model differs greatly from applying it to a FEDERAL model.

 

My biggest complaint is federal over-reach and I've tried to make that clear. You want to make this a D vs. R entity. I am a conservative (not the same thing as a republican) and there are plenty of rinos out there that I could never trust, so it's for me it's not just D vs R.

 

Regardless, it seems as if the entire thread has devolved into a ......"well....your guy did this, so there!" type of thing and I don't see much leeway granted for making points or see many minds being changed.

 

Personally, I enjoy the banter and counter-arguments and welcome the opportunity to listen to the "other" side. (Occasionally an adversary's argument makes me "smarter" - not difficult to do ). Unfortunately, this thread seems to be a microcosm mirroring the split in the country and little listening OR convincing is being accomplished.