I serve an amazing God

[carlfense]

FWIW Mrs. carlfense said that gas is the most likely cause.

[bennychico11]

I had a feeling someone would make that point but I most certainly can say that. Based on my interpretation of what the Bible says, God does not go about answering prayers and intervening in the average man's everyday life at different points in his day...that does not mean that I know how God works, it simply means that I know that he doesn't work in a particular way.

 

So all the verses in the bible of him stating that if you ask in prayer, it shall be given are wrong? http://www.prayingsc...rpromises.shtml

 

If he doesn't act that way...then the OP is incorrect in assuming god helped him. Then it goes to question, what prayers does he answer? Only those of non-average men? Only on special occasions like when Tebow is in trouble during a game?? Why not even more important occasions like when someone is suffering from a terrible illness? Why not all the prayers mega churches tell their congregation to pray for on Sundays..."help for the innocent children suffering in Africa." If it's not everyday prayers he answers...then tell me what non-everyday prayers are?

I don't understand how to build an internal combustion engine but I'm pretty sure my truck doesn't run on nuclear fuel rods.

 

you only know that from current testable, verifiable, repeatable knowledge of car engines. A mechanic can show you the inner workings of a car to show you that it doesn't contain fuel rods.

The inner workings of a god are a little harder to give evidence for

 

 

I don't understand all of x but from the few small things I do understand about x I can rule out a theorized x_y.

 

Ironically...the same can be said about the universe. I don't understand all of the universe, but from the few small things we do know about it, I can rule out a theorized god because none of the universe we've seen so far seems to contain magic in it.

[Excel]

I had a feeling someone would make that point but I most certainly can say that. Based on my interpretation of what the Bible says, God does not go about answering prayers and intervening in the average man's everyday life at different points in his day...that does not mean that I know how God works, it simply means that I know that he doesn't work in a particular way.

 

So all the verses in the bible of him stating that if you ask in prayer, it shall be given are wrong? http://www.prayingsc...rpromises.shtml

 

If he doesn't act that way...then the OP is incorrect in assuming god helped him. Then it goes to question, what prayers does he answer? Only those of non-average men? Only on special occasions like when Tebow is in trouble during a game?? Why not even more important occasions like when someone is suffering from a terrible illness? Why not all the prayers mega churches tell their congregation to pray for on Sundays..."help for the innocent children suffering in Africa." If it's not everyday prayers he answers...then tell me what non-everyday prayers are?

I don't understand how to build an internal combustion engine but I'm pretty sure my truck doesn't run on nuclear fuel rods.

 

you only know that from current testable, verifiable, repeatable knowledge of car engines. A mechanic can show you the inner workings of a car to show you that it doesn't contain fuel rods.

The inner workings of a god are a little harder to give evidence for

 

 

I don't understand all of x but from the few small things I do understand about x I can rule out a theorized x_y.

 

Ironically...the same can be said about the universe. I don't understand all of the universe, but from the few small things we do know about it, I can rule out a theorized god because none of the universe we've seen so far seems to contain magic in it.

 

Since you're now going to scripture then I'll grant to you that the Bible, and most importantly Jesus, does indeed say that a believer's prayers will be answered but given that Jesus gives his followers a very specific prayer to pray addressing your post is quite easy.

 

These two are all I need...

 

1. Luke 11:1-13; And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, "When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."

 

2. Luke 4:12 "It has been said, 'You must not tempt the Lord your God.'"

 

So if you follow Christ you're going to pray the Lord's Prayer stay focused on that, praying that your stomach ache goes away, that you can pay your power bill or for your team to win the Super Bowl is going about it all wrong.

[zoogs]

Based on my interpretation of what the Bible says, God does not go about answering prayers and intervening in the average man's everyday life at different points in his day...that does not mean that I know how God works, it simply means that I know that he doesn't work in a particular way.

 

I don't understand how to build an internal combustion engine but I'm pretty sure my truck doesn't run on nuclear fuel rods.

 

I don't understand all of x but from the few small things I do understand about x I can rule out a theorized x_y.

 

I think this is well said, and a sensible interpretation. I suppose you could never truly know that he doesn't work in this way, but the idea that God is there to answer individual specific prayers and thereby grant the whims of the worthy ... seems to be a relic for more ancient times, like the Frankish king Clovis, a pagan with a Christian wife who (we are told) prayed for victory in battle when all seemed lost, to have the tides later turned. (He subsequently converted to Christianity). Good thing God hated those darn Alemanni.

[Enhance]

] I had a feeling someone would make that point but I most certainly can say that. Based on my interpretation of what the Bible says, God does not go about answering prayers and intervening in the average man's everyday life at different points in his day...that does not mean that I know how God works, it simply means that I know that he doesn't work in a particular way.[/sub]

I like this, because it's something I talked about in the first response to this thread. How can a God pick and choose between who to answer and who to not? How can he cure OP's side pain but let millions die from cancer, for example?

 

I think this is a very reasonable way to approach a God. It's interesting, however, that we have a similar mind set, but arrive at two different conclusions. I believe a "God" exists, just not one that sent his son to die for our sins, has the ability to intervene in our lives, etc. I only think there's a higher power that started the universe and brought us into being. Therefore, it has no real affect on any of our lives. It just exists all around us, all the time.

[Enhance]

That arrogance is one of the things that turns me off to religion. The idea that we have to have a "higher purpose" than other animals. Just because we developed better cognative abilities through evolution is no good reason to believe we're involved in some sort of divinity.

This is exactly what I was talking about, specifically, in reference to our purpose in life. I can't justify us having a greater purpose in the world other than the most basic - continue our species. We're no different than animals outside of the obvious physical appearances and higher brain functions. Our ability to think led to our attempts to explain the world around us. A deer can't do that, therefore, it doesn't see a higher purpose for itself. It just exists, and this is what I feel humanity ultimately does. We just exist, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't see as being more special than anything else, really. We just got lucky on the evolutionary path.

[Excel]

] I had a feeling someone would make that point but I most certainly can say that. Based on my interpretation of what the Bible says, God does not go about answering prayers and intervening in the average man's everyday life at different points in his day...that does not mean that I know how God works, it simply means that I know that he doesn't work in a particular way.[/sub]

I like this, because it's something I talked about in the first response to this thread. How can a God pick and choose between who to answer and who to not? How can he cure OP's side pain but let millions die from cancer, for example?

 

I think this is a very reasonable way to approach a God. It's interesting, however, that we have a similar mind set, but arrive at two different conclusions. I believe a "God" exists, just not one that sent his son to die for our sins, has the ability to intervene in our lives, etc. I only think there's a higher power that started the universe and brought us into being. Therefore, it has no real affect on any of our lives. It just exists all around us, all the time.

We may have come to two different places in our understanding of God but my path has had (and will have) many stops and one of them was where you're at now. Taking a broad look at things and looking at the more scientific narrative it all checks out for me. I mean that both the theories of evolution and the Big Bang make sense, or intelligent people that would know tell me as much, the only problem is the step in between...

 

1. The Big Bang was the first step in the process that led to the formation of the Universe we know today. ✔

2. ??????? Inanimate naturally occurring objects...rocks... suddenly spring to life? X

3. Evolution led to the various forms of life we see today on Earth. ✔

 

...and step two is why I believe there must be a God. I just don't believe that acid, sitting in a deep ocean volcanic water vent gets struck by lightning and comes to life....

 

Sorry for going off on a tangent but maybe one of our more open minded and knowledgeable HB posters can enlighten me on to the currently accepted scientific theory for the origin of life...

[Enhance]

Then, if I may ask, what is your depiction/understanding of God? Are you Christian and do you follow the theology, or no? You don't have to go to into overwhelming detail unless you think it's necessary.

[zoogs]

How life came into being is a great mystery, but there is no account or theory that has it jumping forth from rocks. For one, waters and other elements were present at the supposed inception of life, an atmosphere had formed....which makes it all slightly more imaginable, no? And even then, we're not talking about kangaroos popping out of the sea, we're talking about single-celled organisms, the very basic building blocks. The story of how that all progressed into what we have today is one that I think is incomplete. A lot of mysteries there. We may never know; in fact, it's pretty likely that we will never know, I'd say. But it still doesn't make sense (to me) to invent things to bridge the gaps of our understanding.

 

I mean, it does, but it doesn't make sense (to me) to actually treat that as reality.

 

Life jumping out of rocks seems far fetched and it's why nobody expects life to exist on say, Mars.

[Excel]

Then, if I may ask, what is your depiction/understanding of God? Are you Christian and do you follow the theology, or no? You don't have to go to into overwhelming detail unless you think it's necessary.

 

I consider myself a Christian.

 

The intricacies of my faith are not easily explained in person let alone on HB. My journey to that point is very personal and private...I'm arrogant but not so much so that I think a bunch of posters on a Sports board would care to hear about it.

[TonyStalloni]

An answer that works for me to the question of why God (if he exists and I firmly believe He does) allows some to be healed and others to not be healed is found in understanding the Nature of God. What He values most is having a relationship with us on a daily basis. While I believe He values all of creation, I feel He most loves His final creation....humankind. I read in the Bible of all the steps God took toward us to get us to understand His intentions and finally the last and eternal step He took to show us.

 

I as a parent don't want my three sons to love me because I gave them their every wish growing up. I didn't as they can well tell you. However I know they love me because I showed, guided and disciplined when necessary to get my point across which was for them to become mature adult men capable of raising another generation. I feel God has the same mindset about granting our every prayer. If we knew God would grant His people everything we prayed about including relief from life threatening illnesses then our churches would be full of immature Christians who were there for one purpose. Believe me I have the same pain when I see family and friends go unhealed from serious diseases but I'm not doubting that God can if it be His will.

 

Three weeks ago our Pastor held a healing service. We do this rarely and I have only seen one person healed from a problem that confounded Drs. A friend of mine who has been confined for 4 years to a walker indoors and a powerchair outdoors went forward for prayer in the early service. He finished the service, left to go home with his wife but came back during the end of the 2nd service to show that he was capable of walking and jumping. I worked at his house the week before the healing service and saw how dificult it was for him to walk and heard how he had pain from his neck to his feet. For 2 weeks after he was healed I worked there and saw him clean his garage, load a dumpster and help me push it to the street for pickup, plus walk his dog twice a day. He mentioned to me several times that he doesn't understand why he was healed within minutes of asking and others who were there have yet to be healed. He did say he thinks everyone who prayed got an answer....either yes, or no, or not yet.

 

Yes we do serve a wonderful God!

[hskerprid]

That arrogance is one of the things that turns me off to religion. The idea that we have to have a "higher purpose" than other animals. Just because we developed better cognative abilities through evolution is no good reason to believe we're involved in some sort of divinity.

This is exactly what I was talking about, specifically, in reference to our purpose in life. I can't justify us having a greater purpose in the world other than the most basic - continue our species. We're no different than animals outside of the obvious physical appearances and higher brain functions. Our ability to think led to our attempts to explain the world around us. A deer can't do that, therefore, it doesn't see a higher purpose for itself. It just exists, and this is what I feel humanity ultimately does. We just exist, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't see as being more special than anything else, really. We just got lucky on the evolutionary path.

I grew up beleving in evolution with christianity in the background. But, as I've grown older and thought more about the world around me. I had an epiphany of sorts.

 

If you can walk out in the early morning and gaze over a lake with the sun rising in the background and hear the symphony of nature. If you can take all that in and still believe that we are all here just by accident. That the universe was a cosmic accident then maybe you're right. Maybe you are just an animal. Not trying to be derogitory.

 

I personally believe that "God" gave us a developed mind to ponder and reason. It's all about free will whether or not you choose to believe. He put things on this earth to confuse and give us a reason to execute our free will on whether or not to have faith.

 

Just my .02

[JJ Husker]

The problem in this debate is not necessarily the lack of proof that God exists and does act in his own way in our lives but rather the lack of acceptance of this proof on the part of the non-believers. There have been at least a few examples listed in this thread alone. The OP is convinced he was miraculously healed in answer to his prayers. The non-believers have tried to expain it away as some naturally occuring event. Neither side has provided an airtight case one way or the other. Myself and others are convinced of God's creation and existence through observation of the world around us yet other non-believers think this has all transpired through some one in a trillion (being very generous with the odds) cosmic accident. Once again there is really no definitive proof one way or the other. I myself was healed by the power of God from a condition that doctors were baffled by and had no explanation for. I know what caused it but non-believers still doubt. I saw 2 angels come for my mothers soul when she passed but I have had non-believers, who were not there, tell me I was delusional and only seeing what I wanted to see. There have been many cases of documented near death experiences with varying degrees of acceptablility between the 2 camps of thought. The non-believers expain it away as naturally occuring brain activity when the body is on the verge of death but this is just theory. The non-believers like to argue that it doesn't follow the "scientific method" to ask for proof of non-existence when it really is the flip side of the same issue. I have seen people use some very questionable reasoning and leaps of logic on both sides of the issue. I have seen people assume to think they know how an all powerful creator/father should act in specific cases; why cure the OP's side pain but let millions die from a brutal disease like cancer? I guess it simply boils down to a person choosing to either believe or not believe based on their human interpretation of all the evidence. As the saying goes; you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. If it makes any of you feel better about your own lack of belief to belittle those of us who do believe then please feel free to continue to cast aspertions on our faith. I am in the bag and I know it and it will take something you are unlikely to be able to exhibit to change my mind. If you're in the same boat, on the other side of the fence, all I can say is good luck with whatever purpose you have chosen to drive your 77+/- year life expectancy. If it helps at all, I think you will be ok as long as you try to live a good life and don't purposely destroy every possible chance at God having mercy on your soul.

[knapplc]

JJ, I agree with a lot of what you said there. But the one thing I will disagree with isn't that those of us who do not believe in your god don't want to believe, it's just that there's nothing, nothing at all, that says your god exists. Any of the life experiences you've cited could have happened because Zeus did them. There is no connection to the Christian God other than your belief that there's a connection.

[Comish]

Years ago I had a distinguished collegiate science professor (when pressed by the class) explain the seeming contradiction between his strong faith and his vocational science background.

 

He responded that he (as a mere man) could NOT explain it, but found peace by believing in God and not concerning himself with trying to analyze God’s methods and motives. He simply accepted it.

 

That works for me.