The Ron Brown Religion & Persecution Thread

[knapplc]

The biggest bonfire of a sports story in years was the Sandusky/Paterno case at Penn State, which reached its media apex when Penn State played Nebraska in its first non-Paterno coached game in decades.

 

ESPN and the national media chose one image to play over and over and over that day, and it was Ron Brown leading both teams in prayer.

 

Whatever the sports and newscasters opined about that moment, it reflected overwhelmingly positive on Ron Brown and the University of Nebraska.

 

So it works both ways, depending on the story. That one was about Ron Brown healing. This one is about Ron Brown damning innocent people to hell.

 

The Ron Brown giveth, and the Ron Brown taketh away.

[carlfense]

Well that piques my curiosity. What changed your mind? We have plenty of people on here who claim they used to be Christian, or otherwise religous, who are now in the agnostic or atheist boat. Can you share what has caused you to move the other direction?

You sound like you doubt the claims.

 

You can peruse my heavily dog ear-ed and footnoted NIV study bible if you'd like. It's still in the very stylish teal nylon zippered cover.

[tschu]

Brown says in his letter to the Lincoln Journal Star that he supports UNL's anti-discrimination policy. Yet he disagrees with an anti-discrimination city ordinance. How's that work, exactly?

 

Simple. Anti-descrimination laws lead to reverse discrimination. It's called affirmative action. Yes, it is a reality.

 

Anti-discrimination laws are not the same as affirmative action.

Correct...but they can often LEAD TO affirmative action.

[knapplc]

I genuinely hate the term "affirmative action." It's used too often to describe something it isn't. The term was first used as a way to explain Title XII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but in modern parlance it seems to have taken on this meaning of "hiring lesser-qualified minorities to fill a quota." Using this definition, AA is illegal (coincidentally, was made illegal by Title XII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964).

 

If Americans forgot the term "affirmative action" tomorrow it wouldn't hurt my feelings. It ranks right up there with "reverse discrimination" for incorrectness.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Admitting you don't know is liberating, and far too rare in the world.

 

We need more cheerful agnostics.

[Enhance]

I genuinely hate the term "affirmative action." It's used too often to describe something it isn't. The term was first used as a way to explain Title XII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but in modern parlance it seems to have taken on this meaning of "hiring lesser-qualified minorities to fill a quota." Using this definition, AA is illegal (coincidentally, was made illegal by Title XII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964).

 

If Americans forgot the term "affirmative action" tomorrow it wouldn't hurt my feelings. It ranks right up there with "reverse discrimination" for incorrectness.

Well what term more accurately describes those kinds of programs then? It's not just limited to jobs, of course. "Affirmative action" plays a big role in getting minorities into college. My entire life I've seen those college programs called "affirmative action", from all levels of society including government, in the media and word-of-mouth.

[JJ Husker]

Well that piques my curiosity. What changed your mind? We have plenty of people on here who claim they used to be Christian, or otherwise religous, who are now in the agnostic or atheist boat. Can you share what has caused you to move the other direction?

You sound like you doubt the claims.

 

You can peruse my heavily dog ear-ed and footnoted NIV study bible if you'd like. It's still in the very stylish teal nylon zippered cover.

 

It's not that I doubt the claims carl but this forum, being what it is, could lead to some fabrications and, quite frankly, I've never frequented a message board or any place for that matter that has so many people claiming disbelief in God or renunciation of the Christian faith (maybe I don't get out often enough). I never totally trust anything posted online by anonymous persons. It wouldn't have seemed right to say "we have plenty of people on here who used to be Christian..." I'll leave it for others to tell their own story and make their own claims. Plus, just to be a smart ass, it is all merely anecdotal anyway. I have posted firsthand accounts of how I was "miraculously" cured of an ailment only to be told that my story was merely anecdotal (which technically I guess it is). So, when another on the board claims they used to Christian, Catholic, whatever, and now aren't, well that is also merely anecdotal.

 

BTW- I don't doubt at all that you have a heavily used study bible but I would have to see that "very stylish teal nylon zippered cover" to believe it was in fact stylish.

[JJ Husker]

I genuinely hate the term "affirmative action." It's used too often to describe something it isn't. The term was first used as a way to explain Title XII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but in modern parlance it seems to have taken on this meaning of "hiring lesser-qualified minorities to fill a quota." Using this definition, AA is illegal (coincidentally, was made illegal by Title XII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964).

 

If Americans forgot the term "affirmative action" tomorrow it wouldn't hurt my feelings. It ranks right up there with "reverse discrimination" for incorrectness.

Kind of a funny side story. I brewed a batch of black india pale ale beer awhile back. I and my brewing buddies always try to come up with a catchy name for our brews. Well since IPA's are usually not a black or dark colored beer, the name I came up with was "Affirmative Action IPA" because it was black but not supposed to be. That's my sick sense of humor in a nutshell right there.

[lo country]

Just a real quick note. Orthodox Jews, do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, there fore they still keep the Mosaic law. Christ was the new covenant or new law if you will.

 

Christ would disagree with you.

 

Unsure if you mean the beliefs of the Jewish people vs Messianic Jews or the law itself.

 

In its wording "Christ came not to abolish the law, but fulfill it. In fulfilling the law, he in fact made the law no longer binding as He was the only one who could truly fulfill the law to perfection. He in fact became the "perfect sacrifice" to fulfill the prophecies. If he did not fulfill it, then Christ followers would be still trying to follow the Mosaic laws and unable to because of our sinful nature..

 

Messianic Jews are those who have acknowledged Christ as the Messiah, the son of God and having been the one who fulfilled all of the Old Testament prophecies.

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html

 

http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/did-jesus-abolish-law-or-not

[knapplc]

I genuinely hate the term "affirmative action." It's used too often to describe something it isn't. The term was first used as a way to explain Title XII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but in modern parlance it seems to have taken on this meaning of "hiring lesser-qualified minorities to fill a quota." Using this definition, AA is illegal (coincidentally, was made illegal by Title XII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964).

 

If Americans forgot the term "affirmative action" tomorrow it wouldn't hurt my feelings. It ranks right up there with "reverse discrimination" for incorrectness.

Well what term more accurately describes those kinds of programs then? It's not just limited to jobs, of course. "Affirmative action" plays a big role in getting minorities into college. My entire life I've seen those college programs called "affirmative action", from all levels of society including government, in the media and word-of-mouth.

 

Ah, wait a second. You're talking about a very different thing. I'm speaking specifically about employment. If you want to talk about school you're going to have to take that up with the Dept. of Education, which is an entirely different animal.

[bhamHusker]

It's not that I doubt the claims carl but this forum, being what it is, could lead to some fabrications and, quite frankly, I've never frequented a message board or any place for that matter that has so many people claiming disbelief in God or renunciation of the Christian faith (maybe I don't get out often enough). I never totally trust anything posted online by anonymous persons. It wouldn't have seemed right to say "we have plenty of people on here who used to be Christian..." I'll leave it for others to tell their own story and make their own claims. Plus, just to be a smart ass, it is all merely anecdotal anyway. I have posted firsthand accounts of how I was "miraculously" cured of an ailment only to be told that my story was merely anecdotal (which technically I guess it is). So, when another on the board claims they used to Christian, Catholic, whatever, and now aren't, well that is also merely anecdotal.

 

BTW- I don't doubt at all that you have a heavily used study bible but I would have to see that "very stylish teal nylon zippered cover" to believe it was in fact stylish.

I'll chime in with my story. I have a religious background, but I wouldn't say that I was ever really a Christian. My family was moderately (and at times very) religious as I grew up. In Lincoln, we were Methodists (St. Paul UMC), but my parents took a turn for the religinutty when we moved here and joined a very conservative, fundamentalist church. We attended services at least once a week, plus Sunday school and Bible studies (the compulsory Bible studies were imposed during my folks' phase of heavier religiosity). I attended a private Christian academy operated by our church from the time we moved down here through my first 2 years of high school. I attended a public high school for my junior and senior years (more on that in a minute).

 

I can't say I was ever really a believer. When I was young, I believed in God in the same way that I had believed in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny - I was told it was true by the adults in my life, and was too young to know otherwise or to question what I was being told. As I got older, it never really made sense to me, and I tended to reject a lot of what my my well intentioned teachers were trying to cram in to my head. I always had a big interest in science, and tended to read a lot, and was a huge fan of NOVA on PBS and Carl Sagan's Cosmos. As I began to realize that the things I was being taught in school didn't match with all of the things I was reading and watching, my questioning of things accelerated. For years, my preferred MO was to "go along to get along," but eventually I couldn't really conceal my contempt for what I had come to see as a mountain of BS. As I began to express opinions that didn't jibe with the church's / school's dogma, I was confronted by concerned staff members. When I was unapologetic in my rejection of their interpretation of 2-6000 year old fables, I was graciously invited not to return the following year, my junior year, and so I finished high school at the local public high school.

 

I've called myself an atheist since I was a teen, and in the 27 years since being given the boot from my old school / church, I have yet to encounter anything that has made me think - even for a second - that my conclusions were wrong.

 

A side note, there was an article quoted / linked earlier in this thread that discussed Ron Brown's friend at Brown University that introduced him to Christianity. That fellow is now the head pastor at the church / school here in Birmingham that I attended. I haven't had anything to do with that place in so long that I don't know if it's better or worse now versus when I was there, but I suspect it's about the same - crazy.

[NUance]

Mad Chatter, May 7 (Ron Brown)

BY DIRK CHATELAIN | 6:42 PM, MONDAY, MAY. 7 | POSTED IN BIG RED TODAY SPORTS BLOG

 

This blog focuses on sports content, not religion or politics or my thoughts on life. I have no intention of changing that. But the biggest local sports story of the weekend was Ron Brown’s decision not to testify this afternoon in front of the Lincoln City Council.

LINK

 

 

The past couple of years I spent a lot of time trying to decide whether Chatelain is an idiot or an a-hole. Until I had a breakthrough, and realized that those categories aren't mutually exclusive.

[Muck]

It's not that I doubt the claims carl but this forum, being what it is, could lead to some fabrications and, quite frankly, I've never frequented a message board or any place for that matter that has so many people claiming disbelief in God or renunciation of the Christian faith (maybe I don't get out often enough).

 

What exactly are you claiming here? That the posters really do believe in YHWH and/or are practicing Christians and are lying about it?!

 

I have posted firsthand accounts of how I was "miraculously" cured of an ailment only to be told that my story was merely anecdotal (which technically I guess it is). So, when another on the board claims they used to Christian, Catholic, whatever, and now aren't, well that is also merely anecdotal.

 

I went to a Catholic school. That really happened. It's verifiable.

 

You believe you were magically cured by a non corporeal being without any supporting evidence that you had an actual illness (or that you no longer have one).

 

Those are not equivalent experiences.

[JJ Husker]

It's not that I doubt the claims carl but this forum, being what it is, could lead to some fabrications and, quite frankly, I've never frequented a message board or any place for that matter that has so many people claiming disbelief in God or renunciation of the Christian faith (maybe I don't get out often enough).

 

What exactly are you claiming here? That the posters really do believe in YHWH and/or are practicing Christians and are lying about it?!

 

I have posted firsthand accounts of how I was "miraculously" cured of an ailment only to be told that my story was merely anecdotal (which technically I guess it is). So, when another on the board claims they used to Christian, Catholic, whatever, and now aren't, well that is also merely anecdotal.

 

I went to a Catholic school. That really happened. It's verifiable.

 

You believe you were magically cured by a non corporeal being without any supporting evidence that you had an actual illness (or that you no longer have one).

 

Those are not equivalent experiences.

You got a +1 for that? lol.

 

OK look, all I did was state a fact "We have plenty of people on here who claim they used to be Christian, or otherwise religous, who are now in the agnostic or atheist boat." That is simply a fact. The word "claim" does not indicate whether I believe the claims or not. I also tried to explain it to carl that I did not doubt any of the claims. Here is an easier example of the context in which I used the word; If you claimed you were a douchebag, would it be more appropriate for me to state "that you claimed you were a douchebag" or "that you were in fact a douchebag"? That is why I used the word claim.

 

And FYI, proving that you went to a Catholic school doesn't mean jack about whether or not a person used to hold Christian beliefs. It merely means they went to Catholic school. If you want to compare apples to apples, prove to me that person really believed. That is an equivelant comparison. Personally I don't care if anyone believes me or not. Do you actually think I am going to get signed affidavits from the neurosurgeon who told me I would definitely have to have surgery only to later tell me he had absolutely no explanation of how my condition simply disappeared? In fact that was over 7 years ago and he assured me I would be back within the year. I haven't been back. Should I post my xrays of before and after just to make some internet message board posters happy? No amount of "verifiable" evidence is going to change someones mind on this. The evidence non-believers are waiting for doesn't exist. Anything I could provide would be insufficient. It's just the nature of the beast. So you can quit acting like you can prove anything more than I can. You want to impress me? Prove that God doesn't exist. (and we've come full circle yet again)

[knapplc]

I'm late to this part of the conversation. My former belief is now being called into question? On what grounds?

 

I think it's pretty easy to verify that I was a staunch Christian. Just go look at some threads in this forum from about two years ago. Husker_x will vouch for how trenchantly I supported Christianity back then, I'm sure.

 

 

 

JJ, you had a medical condition which a neurosurgeon stated would require surgery, and it disappeared? That is great, and I'm very glad for you. But the real question is whether the God you happen to believe in cured it, or some other deity whom you don't know/worship cured it, or your body cured it on its own. If you were born in Tunis, odds are good you'd be crediting your healing to Allah. If you were born in Tel Aviv you'd most likely be giving credit to Yahweh. If you were born in Nepal you'd be crediting Buddha. If you were raised by atheist parents in an atheist culture, odds are good you'd be crediting the healing powers of your own body.