Biden

[Moiraine]

I was somewhat impressed that he seemed to know a little bit about some of the foreign policy matters.

lol.

 

I just can't fathom how someone could be so staunchly in support of one "side" that they would say something like this. It would never enter my mind to say this, even about the people I consider most stupid. You can't possible be open-minded about any of this so why bother arguing about it?

 

Of course Biden f*ing "knows a little" and I can't decide whether feigning surprise would make the statement more or less annoying. I would never have even said that about the dude in Missouri who thinks rape victims can't get pregnant.

 

I realize this was very mild, but it's why politics are so annoying. People can't seem to discuss them without taking immature shots at the other "team."

[Comish]

Lots of chatter on this thread about Ryan's content, but unless I missed it.....................this seems to have been given a pass

 

Numbers bandied about are tough to quantify in all of their potential permutations during a short oral argument, but when the record proves someone is lying...............seems like it should at least be mentioned...

 

http://www.examiner....s-during-debate

[knapplc]

Lots of chatter on this thread about Ryan's content

 

I posted a link to an article debunking many of the claims from both Biden and Ryan. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm the only person in this thread who's posted bipartisan debunking.

[Comish]

Lots of chatter on this thread about Ryan's content

 

I posted a link to an article debunking many of the claims from both Biden and Ryan. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm the only person in this thread who's posted bipartisan debunking.

Fair enough.......

[huskerXman]

 

 

If it looks like a giraffe, and it walks like a giraffe, and it smells like a giraffe, most folks are sensible enough to see that it's a giraffe.

 

I guess I don't equate one parties spin on an issue with a blatant lie. Most of these issues can be explained from either side by using different studies etc. Heck, even the debate last night looked like a draw to me and many others but there are some who claim it was a huge victory for Biden and yet others who claim Ryan won. Does that mean somebody is lying? No, it doesn't. So, just because you can trot out a list of articles claiming that Biden won or that Ryan lied, doesn't prove anything. I am sure you believe the dems talking point that Romney's economic plan has to result in middle class tax increases. They arrive at that conclusion through some simple math but they fail to consider how it could be possible. Romney has only provided a framework within which to make policy and that framework includes a promise to not raise taxes on the middle class. The democrats consistently fail to acknowledge that eliminating tax loopholes for the rich does in fact increase tax collections from the rich. But that doesn't stop them from claiming Romney is a liar. The main problem is that too many people can't think outside the boxes they have created for their beliefs. If you are trying to convince me that the democrats or Obama are more trustworthy or more truthful, well, that issue is already settled in my mind. And besides that, I was not judging the debate solely by who may have been more truthful. From what I witnessed (mostly style and etiquette) it was a virtual draw. Biden's smirking, interruptions, and mild cases of rudeness were offset in my mind by a lackluster and rather boring performance by Ryan. People can call my perception wrong all they want but that doesn't make their perception of what transpired any more valid than mine. I didn't see a clear win by Biden and I didn't see any more or less spin by either side. The only point that I felt either one of them got nailed on was when Ryan claimed it had been done before, Biden retorted that it had not, Ryan gave the Kennedy example, and Biden's only defense of his own false statement was "Oh, now you're Jack Kennedy". If that is how some determine a debate winner, well good luck to them.

 

You're going to swallow the Republican story hook, line and sinker, we know this. No amount of proof, fact-checking or explanation will change your mind. Romney's economic plans have been widely, bipartisanly, debunked.

 

Continue to believe what you believe. I'm not concerned with changing your mind.

 

Which is no different than those that support the dem party. it would be wise for people to stand up to both parties and say NO MORE! Otherwise this country is done, mark it down. We can't sustain this kind of behavior much longer. They (both sides) will destroy this country (doing a pretty damn good job of it now).

[knapplc]

it would be wise for people to stand up to both parties and say NO MORE! Otherwise this country is done, mark it down. We can't sustain this kind of behavior much longer. They (both sides) will destroy this country (doing a pretty damn good job of it now).

 

Good thing this is exactly what I've been saying this entire election then, huh?

[carlfense]

Lots of chatter on this thread about Ryan's content, but unless I missed it.....................this seems to have been given a pass

 

Numbers bandied about are tough to quantify in all of their potential permutations during a short oral argument, but when the record proves someone is lying...............seems like it should at least be mentioned...

 

http://www.examiner....s-during-debate

Looks like Biden referenced three different things in that quote:

“By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said during the debate. “It came from this man (1) voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, (2) put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, (3) a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.”

 

“I was there, I voted against them,” Biden added. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”

 

Biden did vote against 2 of the 3 things referenced. If "them" refers to only Medicare Part D and the Bush tax cuts then Biden's statement is accurate. If "them" (as it appears) refers to all 3 parts, it's a lie.

 

It's not quite as clear cut as him saying flat-out "I voted against Iraq and Afghanistan" but it is definitely misleading. I'd be astounded if that's the worst lie from Biden during the debate.

[Mavric]

I was somewhat impressed that he seemed to know a little bit about some of the foreign policy matters.

lol.

 

I just can't fathom how someone could be so staunchly in support of one "side" that they would say something like this. It would never enter my mind to say this, even about the people I consider most stupid. You can't possible be open-minded about any of this so why bother arguing about it?

 

Of course Biden f*ing "knows a little" and I can't decide whether feigning surprise would make the statement more or less annoying. I would never have even said that about the dude in Missouri who thinks rape victims can't get pregnant.

 

I realize this was very mild, but it's why politics are so annoying. People can't seem to discuss them without taking immature shots at the other "team."

That seems to describe Biden's performance the other night pretty well.

[knapplc]

That seems to describe Biden's performance the other night pretty well.

 

And Romney's in the first debate.

[Moiraine]

I was somewhat impressed that he seemed to know a little bit about some of the foreign policy matters.

lol.

 

I just can't fathom how someone could be so staunchly in support of one "side" that they would say something like this. It would never enter my mind to say this, even about the people I consider most stupid. You can't possible be open-minded about any of this so why bother arguing about it?

 

Of course Biden f*ing "knows a little" and I can't decide whether feigning surprise would make the statement more or less annoying. I would never have even said that about the dude in Missouri who thinks rape victims can't get pregnant.

 

I realize this was very mild, but it's why politics are so annoying. People can't seem to discuss them without taking immature shots at the other "team."

That seems to describe Biden's performance the other night pretty well.

 

I agree

[Comish]

Lots of chatter on this thread about Ryan's content, but unless I missed it.....................this seems to have been given a pass

 

Numbers bandied about are tough to quantify in all of their potential permutations during a short oral argument, but when the record proves someone is lying...............seems like it should at least be mentioned...

 

http://www.examiner....s-during-debate

Looks like Biden referenced three different things in that quote:

“By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said during the debate. “It came from this man (1) voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, (2) put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, (3) a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.”

 

“I was there, I voted against them,” Biden added. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”

 

Biden did vote against 2 of the 3 things referenced. If "them" refers to only Medicare Part D and the Bush tax cuts then Biden's statement is accurate. If "them" (as it appears) refers to all 3 parts, it's a lie.

 

It's not quite as clear cut as him saying flat-out "I voted against Iraq and Afghanistan" but it is definitely misleading. I'd be astounded if that's the worst lie from Biden during the debate.

Yeah, I agree. Once we have accepted the threshold of parsing as what the meaning of "is" is, it's going to be difficult for opposing viewpoints to agree on the meaning of lying.

[knapplc]

Yeah, I agree. Once we have accepted the threshold of parsing as what the meaning of "is" is, it's going to be difficult for opposing viewpoints to agree on the meaning of lying.

 

Still consider this to be one of the lowest points of politics in my lifetime. What a sad, sad joke that was.

[carlfense]

Yeah, I agree. Once we have accepted the threshold of parsing as what the meaning of "is" is, it's going to be difficult for opposing viewpoints to agree on the meaning of lying.

 

Still consider this to be one of the lowest points of politics in my lifetime. What a sad, sad joke that was.

Indeed.

[carlfense]

Yeah, I agree. Once we have accepted the threshold of parsing as what the meaning of "is" is, it's going to be difficult for opposing viewpoints to agree on the meaning of lying.

Shouldn't be too hard. Show that he was talking specifically about the two wars . . . and then show that he said that he voted against them.

 

Not nearly as ridiculous as arguing the meaning of "is."

[Mavric]

Yeah, I agree. Once we have accepted the threshold of parsing as what the meaning of "is" is, it's going to be difficult for opposing viewpoints to agree on the meaning of lying.

Shouldn't be too hard. Show that he was talking specifically about the two wars . . . and then show that he said that he voted against them.

 

Not nearly as ridiculous as arguing the meaning of "is."

You mean where he didn't object to the Military Force against Iraq once and voted for it once and voted for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq and Afghanistan War Funding three times?