B1G Expansion and more Conference Realignment

[StPaulHusker]

It's just because the B1G only had 5 schools with lacrosse programs and you need 6 to have a conference champion. Evidently no other B1G school was willing to commit to creating a new sport. Although, I am surprised that Minnesota didn't take a run at it. Lacrosse has become the fastest growing varsity sport in the state and kids here are getting looks and offers from East coast colleges to play.

[jaws]

It's just because the B1G only had 5 schools with lacrosse programs and you need 6 to have a conference champion. Evidently no other B1G school was willing to commit to creating a new sport. Although, I am surprised that Minnesota didn't take a run at it. Lacrosse has become the fastest growing varsity sport in the state and kids here are getting looks and offers from East coast colleges to play.

 

I think you will see more schools adding Lacrosse in the near future. In D3, this has been happening Ohio (OAC and NCAC). It will only be time before this starts to filter up to the larger schools.

[StPaulHusker]

It's just because the B1G only had 5 schools with lacrosse programs and you need 6 to have a conference champion. Evidently no other B1G school was willing to commit to creating a new sport. Although, I am surprised that Minnesota didn't take a run at it. Lacrosse has become the fastest growing varsity sport in the state and kids here are getting looks and offers from East coast colleges to play.

 

I think you will see more schools adding Lacrosse in the near future. In D3, this has been happening Ohio (OAC and NCAC). It will only be time before this starts to filter up to the larger schools.

No doubt about colleges adding the sport. The biggest issue with most universities is taking on another non-revenue generating sport for both men and women.

[VectorVictor]

Glad the big ten finally jumped on the partial membership bandwagon.

 

Partial membership for Lacrosse is not the same as football. It is a non revenue sport and this has nothing to do with sports dollars. I doubt their football team is going to jump from D3 to D1. This is nothing like ND and their deals with the Big East in the past and the ACC in the future.

 

As for the research money, I think Johns Hopkins spends the most of any university in the US, at least that has been the case in the past.

 

So is John Hopkins joining the CIC then as well? That would benefit the B1G more than their lacrosse team would...

 

I don't know what to think about anything Gordon Gee says, but he is interesting. I'm pretty sure this is the first time anything has been mentioned about Kansas from anyone who is anyone. I remember the initial rumor being NU, Missourri, Rutgers, Syracuse, and Pitt. Man, that seems like a decade ago.

 

Kansas has been out there, but just nothing recently. We know that back in 2009 that Kansas was looking at joining the 2009 iteration of the Big East (back when Missouri supposedly had a B1G golden ticket), and Kansas' school president came out and publicly said that they were in no way tethered to Kansas State (unlike Oklahoma Lite to Oklahoma and Texas Tech to Texass) and can go where they please. The focus was on football at the time with expansion, though, and Kansas isn't exactly known for that...

 

...now flash forward to 2013 where most of the viable college football schools are behind GORs, IF When Texass leaves the Big XII (likely after ESPN kills their BevoTV cesspool), Kansas will be the only property left from the Big XII worth salvaging.

 

It's not much of a stretch, and Gee pretty much confirmed what a lot of the early scuttlebutt had intimated during the Rutgers/Maryland round of expansion.

[WoodyHayes1951]

I would be in favor of adding Kansas.

 

Few things would disgust me as much as adding Pitt(WVU would but that isn't ever going to be a viable option. At least Pitt is a good academic school)

 

 

Pitt is trash and the only thing that would be pleasing would be to destroy Mark May's alma mater every year.

[HSKR]

Glad the big ten finally jumped on the partial membership bandwagon.

 

Partial membership for Lacrosse is not the same as football. It is a non revenue sport and this has nothing to do with sports dollars. I doubt their football team is going to jump from D3 to D1. This is nothing like ND and their deals with the Big East in the past and the ACC in the future.

 

As for the research money, I think Johns Hopkins spends the most of any university in the US, at least that has been the case in the past.

 

So is John Hopkins joining the CIC then as well? That would benefit the B1G more than their lacrosse team would...

 

I don't know what to think about anything Gordon Gee says, but he is interesting. I'm pretty sure this is the first time anything has been mentioned about Kansas from anyone who is anyone. I remember the initial rumor being NU, Missourri, Rutgers, Syracuse, and Pitt. Man, that seems like a decade ago.

 

Kansas has been out there, but just nothing recently. We know that back in 2009 that Kansas was looking at joining the 2009 iteration of the Big East (back when Missouri supposedly had a B1G golden ticket), and Kansas' school president came out and publicly said that they were in no way tethered to Kansas State (unlike Oklahoma Lite to Oklahoma and Texas Tech to Texass) and can go where they please. The focus was on football at the time with expansion, though, and Kansas isn't exactly known for that...

 

...now flash forward to 2013 where most of the viable college football schools are behind GORs, IF When Texass leaves the Big XII (likely after ESPN kills their BevoTV cesspool), Kansas will be the only property left from the Big XII worth salvaging.

 

It's not much of a stretch, and Gee pretty much confirmed what a lot of the early scuttlebutt had intimated during the Rutgers/Maryland round of expansion.

 

Adding John Hopkins to the CIC would be bigger then Adding ND for athletics.

[QMany]

[EbylHusker]

Lacrosse (both men's and women's) is quickly on the rise. I'm not saying it ever becomes something like football in this country, or even a revenue generating sport (there are only 2 out of all of them), but the Big 10 wants in early on establishing itself in Lacrosse. This is a step it really needed to take, and getting JHU to do it was huge.

 

Edit - Note that there really isn't a "need" (from JHU's perspective) for Johns Hopkins to join the CIC, especially their medical school. JHU doesn't need it by a long shot. When JHU wants to do a collaboration (which they rarely do unless you're in a few select schools), you do it and lick their boots while thanking them for their magnanonimity. I'm not saying they won't join the CIC, just that there isn't much of a benefit for them to do it and there's no real "need" to.

[BOJ]

Lacrosse (both men's and women's) is quickly on the rise. I'm not saying it ever becomes something like football in this country, or even a revenue generating sport (there are only 2 out of all of them), but the Big 10 wants in early on establishing itself in Lacrosse. This is a step it really needed to take, and getting JHU to do it was huge.

 

Edit - Note that there really isn't a "need" (from JHU's perspective) for Johns Hopkins to join the CIC, especially their medical school. JHU doesn't need it by a long shot. When JHU wants to do a collaboration (which they rarely do unless you're in a few select schools), you do it and lick their boots while thanking them for their magnanonimity. I'm not saying they won't join the CIC, just that there isn't much of a benefit for them to do it and there's no real "need" to.

U. of Chicago doesn't need to either, but it still gains from it.

 

*Edit: Actually, I should have stated that none of the CIC schools need the CIC, they are all major research institutions that have no issues with collaboration; however, every school that does join, benefits greatly from it.

[EbylHusker]

Benefits are more marginal than a lot of people like to think. They are there, but they don't live up to the hype most portray. I'm not saying the CIC is a bad thing, it's a good thing, but that's just how it is. A place like JHU is going to look at the CIC and wonder whether it's worth the bother. They may very well join at some point, but JHU will see little benefit from it.

 

Edit - Let me expand by commenting on one of the key features of CIC membership - open library exchange. A friend who worked there recently told me, "Let me put it this way. When I worked and researched at Johns Hopkins, I never had to look for a single resource outside of their own library."

 

That is the state of JHU over everyone else. Their benefit from CIC will be minimal.

[BOJ]

Benefits are more marginal than a lot of people like to think. They are there, but they don't live up to the hype most portray. I'm not saying the CIC is a bad thing, it's a good thing, but that's just how it is. A place like JHU is going to look at the CIC and wonder whether it's worth the bother. They may very well join at some point, but JHU will see little benefit from it.

 

Edit - Let me expand by commenting on one of the key features of CIC membership - open library exchange. A friend who worked there recently told me, "Let me put it this way. When I worked and researched at Johns Hopkins, I never had to look for a single resource outside of their own library."

 

That is the state of JHU over everyone else. Their benefit from CIC will be minimal.

Library exchange is hardly a key feature of the CIC, it is a feature. I never used it either at OSU, don't know anyone that did (but I bet some of the professors and doctorate students doing research do), all the CIC schools have enormous library sources, it would be very rare that someone would have to look outside their own system, so the library thing is minimal if not nonexistent for almost everyone. In fact, I think every other CIC school has a larger library system than JHU (actually went back and looked, it appears only Nebraska and Purdue aren't, both Maryland and Rutgers are).

 

As far as school rankings (if one cares about that), two other CIC schools are ranked above John Hopkins and the other CIC schools start not too far away at all. But far more importantly, according to research university ranking data (here: http://mup.asu.edu/), six other CIC schools are ranked in the top 25 with Johns Hopkins, with Michigan ranked ahead of them. The year before, two were ranked ahead and one was ranked directly behind JHU (none of these was UC). Why you would state "That is the state of JHU over everyone else" is something I don't understand, nor does the data support the premise. Even the schools that JHU is ahead of isn't by much at all (like very little). Most of the CIC does more than the Ivy League (in fact the Ivy League has three schools in the top 25 research institutions, while the CIC has six). In fact, the more I look at the data, I am unsure what you are even basing your argument on. Maybe they wouldn't see the benefit from it, however, JHU is not in some pinnacle position that it cannot benefit the same as the other schools that it swims in the same pond with (again, with many CIC schools right there with it in research university rankings).

 

This all assumes a lot, but frankly, I have no idea if they would ever get an invite (I'm willing to bet the brass would jump at the opportunity, though). In no way am I saying the CIC is the greatest academic consortium one could imagine, but to say JHU has so much going for it that it would be minimal as compared to the other CIC schools just doesn't add up. JHU is in no way shoulders above the rest of the schools, and in fact is behind some of them. Again, the library thing means nothing, its just an added perk if needed.

 

**Edit: One more, just to reiterate, none of the schools in the CIC needs the consortium, it just flat out makes doing research easier, the benefit is there with no downside.

[EbylHusker]

Edit - Oy, nevermind. So not worth it. lmao

 

Good luck.

[BOJ]

What isn't worth it? You made a statement, I rebutted. If you have something that backs up your argument, by all means put it out there. Just curious what you are basing your statements on.

 

Actually, I don't even understand why you gave me the pseudo richard response you did.

 

**Edit - last one dealing with this (I promise) . It would seem that none of this argument matters one way or the other b/c according to a report out of PSU, JHU is contacting the CIC about getting a seat at the table.

 

http://www.gopsuspor.../060313aac.html

[nic]

I read somewhere that Michigan and Wisconsin are the top B1G schools in terms of research dollars, and JHU doubles their $$ amount. That doesn't make JHU better or not want to be part of the CIC. They just get more more research $$ than anyone else. This may give people a false impression that they are #1, but its only one measure.

 

I thought I read that JHU membership is for 5 years at which time they can get out if they wish. I suspect CIC membership would only happen after they commit for good.

[exswoo]

Johns Hopkins is a research juggernaut but reporting wise the numbers are skewed a bit because of the fact that research funding for the Applied Physics Lab (a defense contractor which accounts for half of all research at JHU) is included in the academic research #s because the lab isn't classified as a FFRL. Funding dollars for similar labs at Berkeley, MIT, U. Chicago, etc aren't included in the official numbers because of the FFRL classification. Of course, I think they'll keep the #1 distinction even if you take those numbers away but it won't be the big gap that it currently looks like if you look at the rankings.

 

Either way, CIC may help JHU in increasing non-defense related research.