jmfb Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Recruiting IS coaching Just because you have good talent- doesnt mean you are going to win Look at USC, Georgia, Texas, Notre Dame and all their top ranked classes- then look at their NCs- COACHING MATTERS That's why you see guys turn around programs Saban, like Urban Meyer would win at the college level, no matter where they coach, because coaching matters Yes they run a basic offense- pro style BUT they out fundamental everyone. The way Saban teaches fundys and the attention they pay to detail is simply amazing AND they adapt, some years they run more zone than power, other years more power than zone, depends on the kids he has They play physical- the approach Saban takes to get his kids to play aggressive and physical is quite a bit different than others They dont do a lot, but what they do, they do extremely well Saban pays a great deal of attention to building the mental toughness of his players- it is a significant part of his proccess Bama WINS with great defense and special teams They always figure out a way to get something done on offense- but the win games with D and ST Sabans pursuit/obcession of perfection is near maniacal and that's why Bama has risen from the dead and is dominating the collegiate game today Ive read quite a bit about him and gone to several clinics where he has spoken it, to say it's all about talent or circumstance- is just silly Saban isnt paid the money he gets just because he can recruit well FYI Im NU all the way- but Im a fan of great well coached football no matter where its played Quote Link to comment
lo country Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Recruiting IS coaching Just because you have good talent- doesnt mean you are going to win Look at USC, Georgia, Texas, Notre Dame and all their top ranked classes- then look at their NCs- COACHING MATTERS That's why you see guys turn around programs Saban, like Urban Meyer would win at the college level, no matter where they coach, because coaching matters Yes they run a basic offense- pro style BUT they out fundamental everyone. The way Saban teaches fundys and the attention they pay to detail is simply amazing AND they adapt, some years they run more zone than power, other years more power than zone, depends on the kids he has They play physical- the approach Saban takes to get his kids to play aggressive and physical is quite a bit different than others They dont do a lot, but what they do, they do extremely well Saban pays a great deal of attention to building the mental toughness of his players- it is a significant part of his proccess Bama WINS with great defense and special teams They always figure out a way to get something done on offense- but the win games with D and ST Sabans pursuit/obcession of perfection is near maniacal and that's why Bama has risen from the dead and is dominating the collegiate game today Ive read quite a bit about him and gone to several clinics where he has spoken it, to say it's all about talent or circumstance- is just silly Saban isnt paid the money he gets just because he can recruit well FYI Im NU all the way- but Im a fan of great well coached football no matter where its played Bama is a well disciplined team that plays a "basic" scheme that is based on sound fundamental football. They tackle well in space. They line up correctly and they do not get stupid penalties nor turn the ball over. The staff develops the kids and gets the most out of them. They are not afraid to throw true fresh in the mix. Even with less talent, a sound team that tackles, doesn't get penalties or turn the ball over will do very well. I am a huge Husker fan, but Bo and Co have a lot of work to do to get to the next level. Quote Link to comment
jmfb Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 As to Saban not doing well at MSU- that simply isnt true He did well enough to get LSU to offer 3 of previous 4 years- before he got there, they had a losing record 4 of the 5 years Saban was there- they went to a Bowl Games They never had a losing record under Saban He went 10-2 his final year there. In the ensuing 7 years after he left, MSU had 5 losing seasons SO they were a lot worse before he got there AND after Saban left- which most would conclude he did a pretty bang up job there given the circumstances (the MSU job) Sabans teams dont beat themselves They play excellent fundamental football Things many college football teams DONT do See Sabans face after some of those BIG wins- his team will win a game by 30 points and he's UNHAPPY because he pursues perfection. They play AGAINST themselves, not the other team. Until you get that mindset and forget about being happy about beating some podunk by 3 points on a lucky play- you will never be at the Bama type level. I dont like the SEC Im not even a fan of Saban the person BUT if you are being honest, he is a great coach and his teams are machines- a joy to watch from the football purist viewpoint- like I enjoyed watching the 71 and 95 Husker teams 1 Quote Link to comment
Count 'Bility Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Guys. I cant stand stand Saban and the double standard he gets to live by. Just agree with me for the sake of my own ego, please Quote Link to comment
B.B. Hemingway Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Guys. I cant stand stand Saban and the double standard he gets to live by. Just agree with me for the sake of my own ego, please Being able to get the talent on campus is part of what it takes to be a great college coach.... All things included (ability, recruiting, wins, championships) I think he already is one of the best college coaches ever, and could end up being the best.... (Now, to your ego) I agree with you on one point, there are a number of coaches that could do what he does with the kind of talent that he has.... Not all, but there are some. For the record, I do think that Pelini is one of them... Quote Link to comment
Comish Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Guys. I cant stand stand Saban and the double standard he gets to live by. Just agree with me for the sake of my own ego, please Being able to get the talent on campus is part of what it takes to be a great college coach.... All things included (ability, recruiting, wins, championships) I think he already is one of the best college coaches ever, and could end up being the best.... (Now, to your ego) I agree with you on one point, there are a number of coaches that could do what he does with the kind of talent that he has.... Not all, but there are some. For the record, I do think that Pelini is one of them... How did Saban do at Michigan St when he had talent more in line with his competitors? T.O. schooled him big time.......... Quote Link to comment
B.B. Hemingway Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Guys. I cant stand stand Saban and the double standard he gets to live by. Just agree with me for the sake of my own ego, please Being able to get the talent on campus is part of what it takes to be a great college coach.... All things included (ability, recruiting, wins, championships) I think he already is one of the best college coaches ever, and could end up being the best.... (Now, to your ego) I agree with you on one point, there are a number of coaches that could do what he does with the kind of talent that he has.... Not all, but there are some. For the record, I do think that Pelini is one of them... How did Saban do at Michigan St when he had talent more in line with his competitors? T.O. schooled him big time.......... That is your argument? Nebraska is Nebraska, and Michigan St. was/is Michigan St..... I don't see how anyone can make any kind of legitimate argument that Saban isn't one of the best coaches ever, and in my opinion it is crazy to even try.... The man has 4 national titles! That's two more than Paterno, and Bowden; and one more than Osborne.... To pretend, and try to convince yourself that Saban isn't one of the best college coaches ever is crazy..... Quote Link to comment
Comish Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Guys. I cant stand stand Saban and the double standard he gets to live by. Just agree with me for the sake of my own ego, please Being able to get the talent on campus is part of what it takes to be a great college coach.... All things included (ability, recruiting, wins, championships) I think he already is one of the best college coaches ever, and could end up being the best.... (Now, to your ego) I agree with you on one point, there are a number of coaches that could do what he does with the kind of talent that he has.... Not all, but there are some. For the record, I do think that Pelini is one of them... How did Saban do at Michigan St when he had talent more in line with his competitors? T.O. schooled him big time.......... That is your argument? Nebraska is Nebraska, and Michigan St. was/is Michigan St..... I don't see how anyone can make any kind of legitimate argument that Saban isn't one of the best coaches ever, and in my opinion it is crazy to even try.... The man has 4 national titles! That's two more than Paterno, and Bowden; and one more than Osborne.... To pretend, and try to convince yourself that Saban isn't one of the best college coaches ever is crazy..... It wasn't an argument. It was a question (so indicated by the tell-tale question mark at the end of the sentence). No one is pretending to convince anyone of anything unless you are reading more into this than intended. But to the salient point, do you disagree T.O. schooled Saban? Quote Link to comment
B.B. Hemingway Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Guys. I cant stand stand Saban and the double standard he gets to live by. Just agree with me for the sake of my own ego, please Being able to get the talent on campus is part of what it takes to be a great college coach.... All things included (ability, recruiting, wins, championships) I think he already is one of the best college coaches ever, and could end up being the best.... (Now, to your ego) I agree with you on one point, there are a number of coaches that could do what he does with the kind of talent that he has.... Not all, but there are some. For the record, I do think that Pelini is one of them... How did Saban do at Michigan St when he had talent more in line with his competitors? T.O. schooled him big time.......... That is your argument? Nebraska is Nebraska, and Michigan St. was/is Michigan St..... I don't see how anyone can make any kind of legitimate argument that Saban isn't one of the best coaches ever, and in my opinion it is crazy to even try.... The man has 4 national titles! That's two more than Paterno, and Bowden; and one more than Osborne.... To pretend, and try to convince yourself that Saban isn't one of the best college coaches ever is crazy..... It wasn't an argument. It was a question (so indicated by the tell-tale question mark at the end of the sentence). No one is pretending to convince anyone of anything unless you are reading more into this than intended. But to the salient point, do you disagree T.O. schooled Saban? Comments/weak attempts at humor like that, are usually signs of those lacking intelligence...nice.... You insinuated a lot in your "question", and I won't argue that T.O. didn't school Saban, but look at where they were at those points in their career. Most people, in their careers, evolved to a point that they are much better at what they do than when the originally started. Saban, unarguably, is a much better coach now than he was then.... Quote Link to comment
Comish Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Comments/weak attempts at humor like that, are usually signs of those lacking intelligence...nice.... Wow. You must have skipped the last Mensa meeting. (Quite the contrary, it is those who believe they are of superior intellect who most often jump to insinuations and conclusions about anyone who dares question their assertions). But leaving that for you and Dr. Phil to digest, I'll ignore the hypocrisy and move on to the question at hand.......i.e. whether or not Saban is worthy of the statue you have erected for him. And, for what it's worth, he does have an impressive resume but your argument that he was at a different point in his career is one that could be buttressed by anyone in the discussion. Surely Bo will be a better coach in 5 years than he is now just as surely as T.O. grew on the job. My dispute with your contention is that when he has had "comparable talent", it is not necessarily born out that he has always been the superior coach. That was the sole motivator for my response. However, feel free to expand that to whatever degree you feel is necessary, since you have self-qualified yourself as the arbiter. Woe to any poster who dares feign sarcasm in your zip code. (sign attached for clarification.........weak humor and lacking intelligence you see...... Quote Link to comment
B.B. Hemingway Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Comments/weak attempts at humor like that, are usually signs of those lacking intelligence...nice.... Wow. You must have skipped the last Mensa meeting. (Quite the contrary, it is those who believe they are of superior intellect who most often jump to insinuations and conclusions about anyone who dares question their assertions). But leaving that for you and Dr. Phil to digest, I'll ignore the hypocrisy and move on to the question at hand.......i.e. whether or not Saban is worthy of the statue you have erected for him. And, for what it's worth, he does have an impressive resume but your argument that he was at a different point in his career is one that could be buttressed by anyone in the discussion. Surely Bo will be a better coach in 5 years than he is now just as surely as T.O. grew on the job. My dispute with your contention is that when he has had "comparable talent", it is not necessarily born out that he has always been the superior coach. That was the sole motivator for my response. However, feel free to expand that to whatever degree you feel is necessary, since you have self-qualified yourself as the arbiter. Woe to any poster who dares feign sarcasm in your zip code. (sign attached for clarification.........weak humor and lacking intelligence you see...... More insinuations.... Sarcasm is fine, but your comment was one that would be made by a 16 year old girl, with a C average. It was telling, because you were obviously offended by me questioning of your own assertions (hypocrisy). I'm not going to continue to argue with you over signs of intelligence, or lack there of. Neither you, or that discussion is worth my time. Now, on with the conversation. You're going to penalize a coach for having the ability to bring in superior talent? There isn't a top flight coach out there that doesn't have that ability. Now, does Saban manage to accumulate better talent than most everyone else? Sure he does, but in my opinion that is part of being considered an excellent coach in the college game. I understand what you're saying. Is he the best X's and O's guy? Probably not, but when I turn on an Alabama game I see a well-disciplined team, who is confident, aware, and just damn good.... Personally, I don't think he is the greatest coach ever, but he deserves to be included in the conversation based off of his accomplishments alone.... I think you and I differ on what characteristics make up a "great" coach.... Quote Link to comment
clyde40 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Guys. I cant stand stand Saban and the double standard he gets to live by. Just agree with me for the sake of my own ego, please See the double standard is that people say he has success at Michigan State and his best season was a nine win season. Bo has a ten win season and he's a pathetic coach. Saban also never won a bowl game at MSU. Quote Link to comment
Comish Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Comments/weak attempts at humor like that, are usually signs of those lacking intelligence...nice.... Wow. You must have skipped the last Mensa meeting. (Quite the contrary, it is those who believe they are of superior intellect who most often jump to insinuations and conclusions about anyone who dares question their assertions). But leaving that for you and Dr. Phil to digest, I'll ignore the hypocrisy and move on to the question at hand.......i.e. whether or not Saban is worthy of the statue you have erected for him. And, for what it's worth, he does have an impressive resume but your argument that he was at a different point in his career is one that could be buttressed by anyone in the discussion. Surely Bo will be a better coach in 5 years than he is now just as surely as T.O. grew on the job. My dispute with your contention is that when he has had "comparable talent", it is not necessarily born out that he has always been the superior coach. That was the sole motivator for my response. However, feel free to expand that to whatever degree you feel is necessary, since you have self-qualified yourself as the arbiter. Woe to any poster who dares feign sarcasm in your zip code. (sign attached for clarification.........weak humor and lacking intelligence you see...... More insinuations.... Sarcasm is fine, but your comment was one that would be made by a 16 year old girl, with a C average. It was telling, because you were obviously offended by me questioning of your own assertions (hypocrisy). I'm not going to continue to argue with you over signs of intelligence, or lack there of. Neither you, or that discussion is worth my time. Now, on with the conversation. You're going to penalize a coach for having the ability to bring in superior talent? There isn't a top flight coach out there that doesn't have that ability. Now, does Saban manage to accumulate better talent than most everyone else? Sure he does, but in my opinion that is part of being considered an excellent coach in the college game. I understand what you're saying. Is he the best X's and O's guy? Probably not, but when I turn on an Alabama game I see a well-disciplined team, who is confident, aware, and just damn good.... Personally, I don't think he is the greatest coach ever, but he deserves to be included in the conversation based off of his accomplishments alone.... I think you and I differ on what characteristics make up a "great" coach.... I'm not offended at all. In fact I enjoy a little verbal sparring. (but to be clear, you were the one who felt compelled on the basis of one question to situate someone else on the intellect scale..........16 year old girl c student?). And, any cursory reading of this board offers multiple examples of insinuations, sarcasms, etc. I guess I was under the impression the purpose of the board was to opine and question and dialogue. In any case, I actually agree with your last two statements about not being the greatest coach (yet); but should be in the conversation at some point. We probably don't disagree much on the characteristics making up a great coach. I just tend to leaven my opinion with the fact that he has had tremendous talent to work with. Enjoy the day......... Quote Link to comment
B.B. Hemingway Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Comments/weak attempts at humor like that, are usually signs of those lacking intelligence...nice.... Wow. You must have skipped the last Mensa meeting. (Quite the contrary, it is those who believe they are of superior intellect who most often jump to insinuations and conclusions about anyone who dares question their assertions). But leaving that for you and Dr. Phil to digest, I'll ignore the hypocrisy and move on to the question at hand.......i.e. whether or not Saban is worthy of the statue you have erected for him. And, for what it's worth, he does have an impressive resume but your argument that he was at a different point in his career is one that could be buttressed by anyone in the discussion. Surely Bo will be a better coach in 5 years than he is now just as surely as T.O. grew on the job. My dispute with your contention is that when he has had "comparable talent", it is not necessarily born out that he has always been the superior coach. That was the sole motivator for my response. However, feel free to expand that to whatever degree you feel is necessary, since you have self-qualified yourself as the arbiter. Woe to any poster who dares feign sarcasm in your zip code. (sign attached for clarification.........weak humor and lacking intelligence you see...... More insinuations.... Sarcasm is fine, but your comment was one that would be made by a 16 year old girl, with a C average. It was telling, because you were obviously offended by me questioning of your own assertions (hypocrisy). I'm not going to continue to argue with you over signs of intelligence, or lack there of. Neither you, or that discussion is worth my time. Now, on with the conversation. You're going to penalize a coach for having the ability to bring in superior talent? There isn't a top flight coach out there that doesn't have that ability. Now, does Saban manage to accumulate better talent than most everyone else? Sure he does, but in my opinion that is part of being considered an excellent coach in the college game. I understand what you're saying. Is he the best X's and O's guy? Probably not, but when I turn on an Alabama game I see a well-disciplined team, who is confident, aware, and just damn good.... Personally, I don't think he is the greatest coach ever, but he deserves to be included in the conversation based off of his accomplishments alone.... I think you and I differ on what characteristics make up a "great" coach.... I'm not offended at all. In fact I enjoy a little verbal sparring. (but to be clear, you were the one who felt compelled on the basis of one question to situate someone else on the intellect scale..........16 year old girl c student?). And, any cursory reading of this board offers multiple examples of insinuations, sarcasms, etc. I guess I was under the impression the purpose of the board was to opine and question and dialogue. In any case, I actually agree with your last two statements about not being the greatest coach (yet); but should be in the conversation at some point. We probably don't disagree much on the characteristics making up a great coach. I just tend to leaven my opinion with the fact that he has had tremendous talent to work with. Enjoy the day......... I think we might differ than, on whether that amount of talent should at all tarnish, or alter his perception/standing as a great coach.... Enjoy your day as well.... Quote Link to comment
jmfb Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I for one have never insinuated that Bo was a pathetic coach. I like the guy for the most part Starting from scratch at Michigan State- 0-11 they lost 6 scholarships and lots of negative press over an academic and grade tampering scandal Versus taking over at Nebraska are 2 different things Sabans team in his last year went 10-2 and beat Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame and Penn State AND they won their bowl game over Florida- his team Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.