Duck Dynasty star suspended from show

[Alamo City Husker]

 

I'd appreciate specific scriptural references of "all sins are the same to God".

 

 

 

All sins, no matter what they are, result in the same thing...which is death (Romans 6:23). Since they earn the same thing, no one sin is greater than the other for humans...they all get you the same exact result and that is death.

 

Another area that might help is James 2:10 which states "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." NIV. So breaking just one single point of the law is equated to breaking all of it. The authors were attempting to show that a sin is a sin in the eyes of God with no one being greater than the other...all sins are simply humans not in harmony with God. The common Hebrew term translated "sin" is chat·taʼth′; in Greek the usual word is ha·mar·ti′a. In both languages the verb forms (Heb., cha·taʼ′; Gr., ha·mar·ta′no) mean "miss," in the sense of missing or not reaching a goal, way, mark, or right point. That's gives a better working verb to describe sin and shows that God has a plan (bullseye) that we need to follow (hit with our arrow shot) and that we often miss that mark.

 

I would say there is one outlier/caveat for sin and that is if you blaspheme God's Holy Spirit...which is said to be a sin above all others and unforgivable (Mark 3:29). So I suppose all sins EXCEPT that one are treated the same...they all earn the same thing and they are all equally able to be redeemed/forgiven by God provided we stop doing them.

 

So, I misspoke earlier...all sin is not the same to God...99.99% of sins are with the .01% coming in the form of blaspheming the Holy Spirit which is the only sin treated differently.

 

 

Again, respectfully, I disagree.

 

I think it's incorrect to take those parts of scripture and turn them into the statement "all sin is the same in the eyes of God". Because that is not what they say.

 

Sin is the great equalizer, I do agree with you on this. Every person is equally a sinner by nature and by choice and separated from God because of it. I think Romans 6 and James 2 speak towards the penalty of all sin being equal, but not the entirety of sin. And I know there are several places in Scripture that speak towards the uniqueness or differentiation between different kinds of sin:

 

- The sacrificial law of Moses differentiate between different types and severities of sin. That's why a thief paid restitution, an occult practitioner was banished, and a fornicator was put to death. Also why different animal sacrifices were required for different sins.

 

- Numbers 15 differentiates between unintentional sin and sins of the "high hand" which are blatant and intention (think middle finger to the sky)

 

- Deuteronomy 18:12 and 27:15 list specific sins, not the entirety of sin, and call them abominations or cursed

 

- You already mentioned blaspheming the Spirit

 

- Luke 20:47 Jesus says that the Pharisees will receive a greater condemnation because of their self-righteous religious pride "...who devour widows' houses and xfor a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.”

 

- He also told Pilate that Judas had committed a greater sin in John 19:11: "Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore ehe who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

 

- John differentiates between sin that leads to death and sin that doesn't lead to death in his first letter: "If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death. "(1 John 5:16-17, ESV)

 

- In 1 Corinthians 6 Paul differentiates sexual/lustful sin as different than all other sin because it is a sin against a person's own body. Whatever that means.

 

- In Matthew 11 Jesus says that it will be more bearable for for Sodom than Capernaum on the day of judgment because of their refusal to believe and repent.

 

- Luke 12:47-48 speaking in parable about the second coming and judgment, says this: "And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more."

 

 

So I think I understand your point but still disagree and think it is dangerous to say all sin is the same. The Bible speaks of different types of sin, different severity of sin, and more grievous warnings of certain types of sin. Further, not even looking at it from a scriptural standpoint, logically it's obvious that all sin is not the same, just based on immediate effect and consequence. If someone steals a toy, while it's sinful, it does not have any comparable common consequence compared to someone raping a child.

 

 

I think you both have excellent scriptural points. To bad national coalitions of gays and straights can't have civil conversations like you all do! FWIW If people do not delve into the word like you all have, some may NEVER know what they are doing is sinning IMHO. Goes back to the greatest commandment. Once you do that and have that personal relationship, God will convict people's heart and show them what is sin.

[Alamo City Husker]

 

I'd appreciate specific scriptural references of "all sins are the same to God".

 

 

 

All sins, no matter what they are, result in the same thing...which is death (Romans 6:23). Since they earn the same thing, no one sin is greater than the other for humans...they all get you the same exact result and that is death.

 

Another area that might help is James 2:10 which states "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." NIV. So breaking just one single point of the law is equated to breaking all of it. The authors were attempting to show that a sin is a sin in the eyes of God with no one being greater than the other...all sins are simply humans not in harmony with God. The common Hebrew term translated "sin" is chat·taʼth′; in Greek the usual word is ha·mar·ti′a. In both languages the verb forms (Heb., cha·taʼ′; Gr., ha·mar·ta′no) mean "miss," in the sense of missing or not reaching a goal, way, mark, or right point. That's gives a better working verb to describe sin and shows that God has a plan (bullseye) that we need to follow (hit with our arrow shot) and that we often miss that mark.

 

I would say there is one outlier/caveat for sin and that is if you blaspheme God's Holy Spirit...which is said to be a sin above all others and unforgivable (Mark 3:29). So I suppose all sins EXCEPT that one are treated the same...they all earn the same thing and they are all equally able to be redeemed/forgiven by God provided we stop doing them.

 

So, I misspoke earlier...all sin is not the same to God...99.99% of sins are with the .01% coming in the form of blaspheming the Holy Spirit which is the only sin treated differently.

 

 

Again, respectfully, I disagree.

 

I think it's incorrect to take those parts of scripture and turn them into the statement "all sin is the same in the eyes of God". Because that is not what they say.

 

Sin is the great equalizer, I do agree with you on this. Every person is equally a sinner by nature and by choice and separated from God because of it. I think Romans 6 and James 2 speak towards the penalty of all sin being equal, but not the entirety of sin. And I know there are several places in Scripture that speak towards the uniqueness or differentiation between different kinds of sin:

 

- The sacrificial law of Moses differentiate between different types and severities of sin. That's why a thief paid restitution, an occult practitioner was banished, and a fornicator was put to death. Also why different animal sacrifices were required for different sins.

 

- Numbers 15 differentiates between unintentional sin and sins of the "high hand" which are blatant and intention (think middle finger to the sky)

 

- Deuteronomy 18:12 and 27:15 list specific sins, not the entirety of sin, and call them abominations or cursed

 

- You already mentioned blaspheming the Spirit

 

- Luke 20:47 Jesus says that the Pharisees will receive a greater condemnation because of their self-righteous religious pride "...who devour widows' houses and xfor a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.”

 

- He also told Pilate that Judas had committed a greater sin in John 19:11: "Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore ehe who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

 

- John differentiates between sin that leads to death and sin that doesn't lead to death in his first letter: "If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death. "(1 John 5:16-17, ESV)

 

- In 1 Corinthians 6 Paul differentiates sexual/lustful sin as different than all other sin because it is a sin against a person's own body. Whatever that means.

 

- In Matthew 11 Jesus says that it will be more bearable for for Sodom than Capernaum on the day of judgment because of their refusal to believe and repent.

 

- Luke 12:47-48 speaking in parable about the second coming and judgment, says this: "And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more."

 

 

So I think I understand your point but still disagree and think it is dangerous to say all sin is the same. The Bible speaks of different types of sin, different severity of sin, and more grievous warnings of certain types of sin. Further, not even looking at it from a scriptural standpoint, logically it's obvious that all sin is not the same, just based on immediate effect and consequence. If someone steals a toy, while it's sinful, it does not have any comparable common consequence compared to someone raping a child.

 

How "open" will soceity be in the future about a person's "natural" carnal desire.

 

Canadian-specialists-call-pedophilia-a-sexual-orientation

[walksalone]

The Bible says all sins are the same to God.

I think that you're correct . . . but I wonder what percentage of self-identifying christians believe that or agree with it. Even at my most religious I don't think that I actually agreed that a white lie is the same as child rape.

 

 

 

Probably not many.

 

It's hard for people to understand that a sin is a sin because we have an imperfect view of imperfection...while God would have a perfect view of imperfection. It's part of the reason why being a Christian in today's world is a struggle...we can't as you put it agree "that a white lie is the same as child rape". God's view on both of these are probably beyond our comprehension...which is probably why he said to consider all sins as equal so we don't hierarchically categorize them into which ones are worse than others...like I said, it's a struggle to apply the Bible view in today's society...and comes to bear witness that if you're not struggling, you're probably not a Christian.

 

It's hard for me to understand why people will let a book get them all wound up...

[knapplc]

With respect to Landlord's research, the concept of "greater" sin is a myth. Romans 3:23 explains that quite clearly. Much as carlfense said above, Man cannot grasp that a white lie is the same as child rape, but each is Unrighteous, and each forever separates Man from God.

 

To further expound upon this, God was with Man in Eden until Man sinned. Immediately after this an impassable gulf opened between God and Man because God is Righteousness, and Man's sin made him wholly unrighteous. God cannot be Unrighteous by His very nature, therefore Man's sin regardless of the sin separates him from God forever.

 

Jesus spoke to Man in a language Man could easily understand. Man's feeble mind cannot grasp God's Righteousness, therefore Jesus used parables and man-like terms to describe the Kingdom of God to Man. Jesus, in the most basic terms, is the Path by which Man can return to God. Paul provided curbs to that path, explaining in greater detail Jesus' aims and intents.

 

Jesus is the brochure that presents the car you're going to get.

 

Paul is the User Manual.

 

It is a failing of Man, and a further explanation of Man's Unrighteousness, that we constantly try to differentiate sin from sin. It is a conceit, a way to make us feel better: "Sure, I tell little white lies now and then, but at least I don't rape children!" Your sin is not "better" than anyone else's sin. Sin is sin is sin is sin is sin.

 

 

 

Of course, the longer people do not delve into the word, the longer they will continue to live under such misunderstandings. Delving into the world around you, searching stridently to understand it and to grasp the what and the why, is a far more worthwhile pursuit.

 

What good are your eyes if they do not see; or your ears if they do not hear?

[Landlord]

With respect to Landlord's research, the concept of "greater" sin is a myth. Romans 3:23 explains that quite clearly. Much as carlfense said above, Man cannot grasp that a white lie is the same as child rape, but each is Unrighteous, and each forever separates Man from God.

 

To further expound upon this, God was with Man in Eden until Man sinned. Immediately after this an impassable gulf opened between God and Man because God is Righteousness, and Man's sin made him wholly unrighteous. God cannot be Unrighteous by His very nature, therefore Man's sin regardless of the sin separates him from God forever.

 

Jesus spoke to Man in a language Man could easily understand. Man's feeble mind cannot grasp God's Righteousness, therefore Jesus used parables and man-like terms to describe the Kingdom of God to Man. Jesus, in the most basic terms, is the Path by which Man can return to God. Paul provided curbs to that path, explaining in greater detail Jesus' aims and intents.

 

Jesus is the brochure that presents the car you're going to get.

 

Paul is the User Manual.

 

It is a failing of Man, and a further explanation of Man's Unrighteousness, that we constantly try to differentiate sin from sin. It is a conceit, a way to make us feel better: "Sure, I tell little white lies now and then, but at least I don't rape children!" Your sin is not "better" than anyone else's sin. Sin is sin is sin is sin is sin.

 

 

 

Of course, the longer people do not delve into the word, the longer they will continue to live under such misunderstandings. Delving into the world around you, searching stridently to understand it and to grasp the what and the why, is a far more worthwhile pursuit.

 

What good are your eyes if they do not see; or your ears if they do not hear?

 

 

I don't actually disagree with any of your points, and agree and acknowledge that all sin has the same weight and the same eternal effects or implications. But I still think that adhering to that and adhering to "all sin is equal in the eyes of God" are two distinctly separate beliefs, and ignore the immediate and common effects of sin on physical life, which is still part of the equation.

 

So I guess I'd actually like to see counterpoints specifically addressing the scriptures I put forth - especially John's differentiation of sins that do and don't lead towards death. If Scripture is inspired and/or inerrant, I don't see how that's compatible with "all sin is the same."

[knapplc]

So I guess I'd actually like to see counterpoints specifically addressing the scriptures I put forth - especially John's differentiation of sins that do and don't lead towards death. If Scripture is inspired and/or inerrant, I don't see how that's compatible with "all sin is the same."

 

I don't want to dismiss your other point, so maybe we'll have to re-address them later, but this is the crux of the issue for me. We have disparate statements, from the New Testament, from Jesus and Paul, from Paul's epistles and the Gospels.

 

If scripture is inerrant, how can that be? In my research yesterday to post what I posted above I ran into the same roadblock - the source(s) of the New Testament. Following the solid trail of scriptural canon only gets us back to 325 AD, because prior to that there were so many more Gospels.

 

It simply cannot be overstated the impact that Rome had on the Bible. And by "Rome" I don't mean the Vatican or the Popes, I mean the political entity of the Roman Empire, and what it wanted and intended in that time.

[HUSKER 37]

Again, I don't understand why including homosexuals in this has caused so much uproar. He is an idiot because he included this group? Here is a list of everyone he included in his answer to the question:

 

"Everything is blurred on what’s right and what’s wrong. Sin becomes fine," he later added. “Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men. Don’t be deceived. Neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlers -- they won’t inherit the kingdom of God. Don’t deceive yourself. It’s not right."

 

Now, why aren't people pointing out that he included greedy people, slanderers, swindlers, idolaters, male prostitutes, men who sleep with multiple women...etc.

 

It seems like all that was perfectly fine until he included homosexuals. Once that word was uttered......oh Lord....your fired and everyone is shocked.

 

In this quote, he hasn't said anything any different than any minister on Sunday morning and MANY ministers and Christians on TV. However, because this guy wears camo, duck hunts and has a beard, all of a sudden if he says homosexuality is a sin...It's....OH MY GOD THIS GUY IS AN IDIOT!!!!

 

Why? He didn't say they should be second class citizens. He didn't say he couldn't be friends with them or would chastise a family member if they were gay any more than he would if one of his kids had an affair while married.

 

 

For the record I personally am not calling him an idiot.

 

But it's different with homosexuality because the world still, to a decent extent, still sees all those other things as wrong or negative and doesn't see homosexuality the same way. Mostly because greed, drunkenness, prostitution and etc. all have obvious and visible negative consequences. To take a stance that includes homosexuality in that, which outwardly doesn't really seem to harm anybody, starts diving deeper into a faith/spiritual basis of what actually makes it not okay, and people disagree.

 

If I come to your house and call a child rapist a bad person you'll agree with me but if I call your mother a scum-sucking whore you will take offense.

 

I understand your comments.

 

Look, people I know in real life would laugh if anyone thought I was "homophobic" in any way. I learned long ago while working with gay people that they are no different than any of us. I have employed openly gay people. I have supported gay marriage being legal. I have a very good friend who is in his mid 20s who has no relationship with his father because he is gay and he knows he can count on me to be there if he needs someone. So, my comments are not supporting any antigay agenda by waco groups.

 

However, I still don't understand why this is being pulled out of his comments the way it is. I may still believe homosexuality is a sin similar to any other sin. But, I'm not going to treat a gay person any differently than anyone else who has sinned.

 

 

I wonder if some of the hypersensitivities toward the perceived bashing of gay folks is because society as a whole? considers Homosexuality to be something you're born with..or maybe a disease, and not just a bad decision made in the heat of the moment like Adultery, thievery, or just plain lying.

 

I just started watching the show last weekend during A&E's marathon showing of the show..Phill reminds me of an old girlfriend's dad and is probably why he's my favourite character..His brother Cy seems to be a closet queen just waiting to come out.

 

The fact that I find it at all interesting says a lot about the quality of television these days.

 

Back when they were Yuppies?

[HUSKER 37]

With respect to Landlord's research, the concept of "greater" sin is a myth. Romans 3:23 explains that quite clearly. Much as carlfense said above, Man cannot grasp that a white lie is the same as child rape, but each is Unrighteous, and each forever separates Man from God.

 

To further expound upon this, God was with Man in Eden until Man sinned. Immediately after this an impassable gulf opened between God and Man because God is Righteousness, and Man's sin made him wholly unrighteous. God cannot be Unrighteous by His very nature, therefore Man's sin regardless of the sin separates him from God forever.

 

Jesus spoke to Man in a language Man could easily understand. Man's feeble mind cannot grasp God's Righteousness, therefore Jesus used parables and man-like terms to describe the Kingdom of God to Man. Jesus, in the most basic terms, is the Path by which Man can return to God. Paul provided curbs to that path, explaining in greater detail Jesus' aims and intents.

 

Jesus is the brochure that presents the car you're going to get.

 

Paul is the User Manual.

 

It is a failing of Man, and a further explanation of Man's Unrighteousness, that we constantly try to differentiate sin from sin. It is a conceit, a way to make us feel better: "Sure, I tell little white lies now and then, but at least I don't rape children!" Your sin is not "better" than anyone else's sin. Sin is sin is sin is sin is sin.

 

 

 

Of course, the longer people do not delve into the word, the longer they will continue to live under such misunderstandings. Delving into the world around you, searching stridently to understand it and to grasp the what and the why, is a far more worthwhile pursuit.

 

What good are your eyes if they do not see; or your ears if they do not hear?

 

 

I don't actually disagree with any of your points, and agree and acknowledge that all sin has the same weight and the same eternal effects or implications. But I still think that adhering to that and adhering to "all sin is equal in the eyes of God" are two distinctly separate beliefs, and ignore the immediate and common effects of sin on physical life, which is still part of the equation.

 

So I guess I'd actually like to see counterpoints specifically addressing the scriptures I put forth - especially John's differentiation of sins that do and don't lead towards death. If Scripture is inspired and/or inerrant, I don't see how that's compatible with "all sin is the same."

 

Knapp did an excellent job of using scripture to show this...I was mobile this weekend heading to the inlaws so I couldn't reply until now.

 

All sin is the same is not the point...all sin is the same in the eyes of God is the point. That's 2 different concepts. We don't consider all sin the exact same because of societal influences, religious influences, peer pressure, cultural upbringing, etc. When we look at sin, we bring with us all this bias in and sins do not appear to be equal to us. Rest assured that a miss is a miss in God's eyes.

 

If the bullseye on a target was God's path and we missed by hitting outside of it on the 3rd ring...God would not see difference between missing the bullseye on the 3rd ring versus the 4th ring or even missing the target entirely. That's the beauty of God and the beauty of his plan for the redemption of mankind and the sanctification of his name.

 

So there you go...hopefully this shows that all sin IS the same in the eyes of God...a miss is a miss no matter how far off the target it is.

So...The consequences to the sinner might be the same..just not the short term consequences to the sin-ee?