Homosexuality, Culture, and Theology

[Ulty]

All of this boils down to "I believe it's true so you should, too" and that's where the problem lies. If I believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster teaches us that we should only eat meatballs for every meal, and anyone who doesn't is a sinner, and I start passing legislation outlawing any other food than meatballs, you're going to start having a problem with that, right?

 

At what point does my meatball zealotry become a non-starter for you? When I talk about it? When I preach that those who don't eat meatballs every meal are sinners? When I post about it incessantly on forums? When I complain about intolerance by those who tell me to STFU about my meatball proselytizing? When I create a series of national laws based on Meatball Acceptance?

 

Or are you saying you're always always always going to support me, even after I get the All-Meatball/All-The-Time legislation passed?

 

Because I'm guessing you're going to start some pushback before we get to the legislation stage.

 

Or have I read you wrong?

 

[tschu]

A couple observations.

 

1- It is apparent that people who do not believe in a higher power or the concept of sin have a problem with anything being considered a sin by others. Not sure why this issue generates so much interest from those folks. This whole issue exists in a realm they don't acknowledge or believe in. But, it does make the conversation much more lively.

 

2- I find it slightly amusing that some people whenever somebody like this Chandler guy tries to explain why some people feel homosexuality is a sin yet the only comeback necessary in these peoples minds is to say "STFU" or there is no such thing as a sin. Newsflash, you're not helping reach any higher level of understanding or tolerance or middle ground by shouting someone down with "STFU" or telling them how their beliefs are mythical and stupid and unenlightened. IMO, that is worse than some of these holier than thou loud mouths who want to do nothing more than dwell on "other" peoples sins.

 

3- Yes it annoys me also that so many of these supposed and so called "Christians" dwell on the issue of homosexuality. I can only say that I personally have much more concerning sins of my own that I commit than to focus on what some other people may or may not be doing. I'll let God decide their fate and whether or not what they're doing is a sin. In the end, his is the only opinion that counts anyway. Sin is a concept of God and only able to be defined as such by him. When mere humans start trying to do God's job for him things are bound to get f'd up.

 

Same-sex marriage is illegal in 33 states. Get back to me when religious views stop influencing the real world.

[NUance]

I always thought Flying Spaghetti Monster was a poor excuse for an argument. Basically it just says, there is no God since I can make up something you can't logically disprove. How lame is that?

[Junior]

I always thought Flying Spaghetti Monster was a poor excuse for an argument. Basically it just says, there is no God since I can make up something you can't logically disprove. How lame is that?

 

Um... isn't that Christianity?

 

The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

[Ulty]

I always thought Flying Spaghetti Monster was a poor excuse for an argument. Basically it just says, there is no God since I can make up something you can't logically disprove. How lame is that?

The FSM actually meets the criteria for any other religion and is just as logically sound. It proves nothing, but it does ironically demonstrate the fallacies of religious belief.

[knapplc]

I always thought Flying Spaghetti Monster was a poor excuse for an argument. Basically it just says, there is no God since I can make up something you can't logically disprove. How lame is that?

 

I will add an extra ladle of sauce to the dish for you tonight, my son.

[zoogs]

1- It is apparent that people who do not believe in a higher power or the concept of sin have a problem with anything being considered a sin by others. Not sure why this issue generates so much interest from those folks. This whole issue exists in a realm they don't acknowledge or believe in. But, it does make the conversation much more lively.

I don't think it's about the concept of sin; that's merely the context within which the discussion most often takes place.

 

This issue is the line people still want to keep drawing, and the effect that attitude has on others. I don't think it's sufficient to say, "But I Love them, just like Christ would". For whom exactly would you not say that? Murderers and rapists are all God's children. "I'm a sinner, too." Yeah, but your matrimony is holy.

 

We're as a society just coming to grips with the normalcy of being gay, and I can understand a lot of good people having trouble with this. There were once similarly good people grappling with their bold, groundbreaking tolerance of black people or interracial marriage or women. The change is happening so fast, driven by a generation that won't accept anything less (which -- bravo).

 

There was a status message on here yesterday that went, there are all these (3) gay couples in my neighborhood, what the hell?! Some guy in the neighborhood saying man, he's done with this s---, he lives there for 30 years but now he wants to move, lol. No dwelling, no condemning, just an off-the-cuff light-hearted comment. My God, can you imagine moving into any neighborhood and knowing that's what people are thinking?

 

That's the world of today, but hopefully, it's not the world of tomorrow.

[Ulty]

Well said, zoogies. That is significantly better than my "STFU".

[JJ Husker]

 

A couple observations.

 

1- It is apparent that people who do not believe in a higher power or the concept of sin have a problem with anything being considered a sin by others. Not sure why this issue generates so much interest from those folks. This whole issue exists in a realm they don't acknowledge or believe in. But, it does make the conversation much more lively.

 

2- I find it slightly amusing that some people whenever somebody like this Chandler guy tries to explain why some people feel homosexuality is a sin yet the only comeback necessary in these peoples minds is to say "STFU" or there is no such thing as a sin. Newsflash, you're not helping reach any higher level of understanding or tolerance or middle ground by shouting someone down with "STFU" or telling them how their beliefs are mythical and stupid and unenlightened. IMO, that is worse than some of these holier than thou loud mouths who want to do nothing more than dwell on "other" peoples sins.

 

3- Yes it annoys me also that so many of these supposed and so called "Christians" dwell on the issue of homosexuality. I can only say that I personally have much more concerning sins of my own that I commit than to focus on what some other people may or may not be doing. I'll let God decide their fate and whether or not what they're doing is a sin. In the end, his is the only opinion that counts anyway. Sin is a concept of God and only able to be defined as such by him. When mere humans start trying to do God's job for him things are bound to get f'd up.

 

All of this boils down to "I believe it's true so you should, too" and that's where the problem lies. If I believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster teaches us that we should only eat meatballs for every meal, and anyone who doesn't is a sinner, and I start passing legislation outlawing any other food than meatballs, you're going to start having a problem with that, right?

 

At what point does my meatball zealotry become a non-starter for you? When I talk about it? When I preach that those who don't eat meatballs every meal are sinners? When I post about it incessantly on forums? When I complain about intolerance by those who tell me to STFU about my meatball proselytizing? When I create a series of national laws based on Meatball Acceptance?

 

Or are you saying you're always always always going to support me, even after I get the All-Meatball/All-The-Time legislation passed?

 

Because I'm guessing you're going to start some pushback before we get to the legislation stage.

 

Or have I read you wrong?

 

I think that can be a problem whenever believers and non-believers begin discussing any issue. Too often the non-believer assumes the believer is demanding acceptance of their beliefs and vice versa. I have argued a bunch of religious issues on this board but I do not believe I have ever once asked for or expected another person to agree with me or to profess the same beliefs I have. I have offered numerous examples of why I feel or believe the way I do on many issues, much like this Chandler guy was doing in the first video (I haven't watched the 2nd one yet), yet all too often people who disagree or don't share the same beliefs revert to a defensive or attacking position and assume that there must be some sinister purpose behind the explanations I have offered.

 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, unless there is some mutual respect for each persons view point, we're never going to get anywhere discussing issues like this. If a person is so opposed to the thought of religion, biblical teachings, existence of a God, etc., then it is futile for them to even begin discussing the issue with a person who believes. Likewise, if people like some of these religious zealots refuse to acknowledge that they can't prove the basis for their beliefs, then yes they might as well stfu.

 

You might have read me wrong???? I am not for laws discriminating against gays. I have no problem with them living their life how they see fit. It's not my job to judge them or to classify anything they do as a sin or not. I have no problem with same sex civil unions or equal rights with men & women who are traditionally married. BUT, if you ask me if I think it's a sin, you may not like the answer. And if you can't accept yes as an answer to that question, instead of me stfu how about not asking the question? If you ask me if I understand how a man can get it on with another man, I have to say I don't get it and I do have trouble accepting it as normal behavior. Just don't jump the gun and assume those answers mean I must want to advance the right wing hard line against homosexuality. I don't. Those people should have all the same rights I do to live their life as they wish. What they do doesn't affect me and therefore it is none of my business. Sorry for the rambling.

[JJ Husker]

 

1- It is apparent that people who do not believe in a higher power or the concept of sin have a problem with anything being considered a sin by others. Not sure why this issue generates so much interest from those folks. This whole issue exists in a realm they don't acknowledge or believe in. But, it does make the conversation much more lively.

I don't think it's about the concept of sin; that's merely the context within which the discussion most often takes place.

 

This issue is the line people still want to keep drawing, and the effect that attitude has on others. I don't think it's sufficient to say, "But I Love them, just like Christ would". For whom exactly would you not say that? Murderers and rapists are all God's children. "I'm a sinner, too." Yeah, but your matrimony is holy.

 

We're as a society just coming to grips with the normalcy of being gay, and I can understand a lot of good people having trouble with this. There were once similarly good people grappling with their bold, groundbreaking tolerance of black people or interracial marriage or women. The change is happening so fast, driven by a generation that won't accept anything less (which -- bravo).

 

There was a status message on here yesterday that went, there are all these (3) gay couples in my neighborhood, what the hell?! Some guy in the neighborhood saying man, he's done with this s---, he lives there for 30 years but now he wants to move, lol. No dwelling, no condemning, just an off-the-cuff light-hearted comment. My God, can you imagine moving into any neighborhood and knowing that's what people are thinking?

 

That's the world of today, but hopefully, it's not the world of tomorrow.

 

Well said. +1

[NUinID]

 

1- It is apparent that people who do not believe in a higher power or the concept of sin have a problem with anything being considered a sin by others. Not sure why this issue generates so much interest from those folks. This whole issue exists in a realm they don't acknowledge or believe in. But, it does make the conversation much more lively.

I don't think it's about the concept of sin; that's merely the context within which the discussion most often takes place.

 

This issue is the line people still want to keep drawing, and the effect that attitude has on others. I don't think it's sufficient to say, "But I Love them, just like Christ would". For whom exactly would you not say that? Murderers and rapists are all God's children. "I'm a sinner, too." Yeah, but your matrimony is holy.

 

We're as a society just coming to grips with the normalcy of being gay, and I can understand a lot of good people having trouble with this. There were once similarly good people grappling with their bold, groundbreaking tolerance of black people or interracial marriage or women. The change is happening so fast, driven by a generation that won't accept anything less (which -- bravo).

 

There was a status message on here yesterday that went, there are all these (3) gay couples in my neighborhood, what the hell?! Some guy in the neighborhood saying man, he's done with this s---, he lives there for 30 years but now he wants to move, lol. No dwelling, no condemning, just an off-the-cuff light-hearted comment. My God, can you imagine moving into any neighborhood and knowing that's what people are thinking?

 

That's the world of today, but hopefully, it's not the world of tomorrow.

 

Well put, for me it is definitely not about religion. I would guess that most people that are somewhat homophobic aren't even that religious. There certainly are those that are but for most it is just something to them that is not "normal". That is how my wife puts it, she has a hard time with homosexuality being viewed as something that is normal, and it really has nothing to do with religion.

 

Personally I don't care of your gay, or not, but I don't want anybody forcing their sexual preference down my throat. I don't care if you are into men, women, beasts or nurses dressed like smurfs. You don't have to be in my face about it.

 

I have worked with several gay people and have never had a problem with it, but they never made a big deal about it either. So because of that we just had nice human relationships like coworkers should have.

[Landlord]

People have very strange ideas of what acceptance and tolerance are.

[knapplc]

 

 

A couple observations.

 

1- It is apparent that people who do not believe in a higher power or the concept of sin have a problem with anything being considered a sin by others. Not sure why this issue generates so much interest from those folks. This whole issue exists in a realm they don't acknowledge or believe in. But, it does make the conversation much more lively.

 

2- I find it slightly amusing that some people whenever somebody like this Chandler guy tries to explain why some people feel homosexuality is a sin yet the only comeback necessary in these peoples minds is to say "STFU" or there is no such thing as a sin. Newsflash, you're not helping reach any higher level of understanding or tolerance or middle ground by shouting someone down with "STFU" or telling them how their beliefs are mythical and stupid and unenlightened. IMO, that is worse than some of these holier than thou loud mouths who want to do nothing more than dwell on "other" peoples sins.

 

3- Yes it annoys me also that so many of these supposed and so called "Christians" dwell on the issue of homosexuality. I can only say that I personally have much more concerning sins of my own that I commit than to focus on what some other people may or may not be doing. I'll let God decide their fate and whether or not what they're doing is a sin. In the end, his is the only opinion that counts anyway. Sin is a concept of God and only able to be defined as such by him. When mere humans start trying to do God's job for him things are bound to get f'd up.

 

All of this boils down to "I believe it's true so you should, too" and that's where the problem lies. If I believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster teaches us that we should only eat meatballs for every meal, and anyone who doesn't is a sinner, and I start passing legislation outlawing any other food than meatballs, you're going to start having a problem with that, right?

 

At what point does my meatball zealotry become a non-starter for you? When I talk about it? When I preach that those who don't eat meatballs every meal are sinners? When I post about it incessantly on forums? When I complain about intolerance by those who tell me to STFU about my meatball proselytizing? When I create a series of national laws based on Meatball Acceptance?

 

Or are you saying you're always always always going to support me, even after I get the All-Meatball/All-The-Time legislation passed?

 

Because I'm guessing you're going to start some pushback before we get to the legislation stage.

 

Or have I read you wrong?

 

I think that can be a problem whenever believers and non-believers begin discussing any issue. Too often the non-believer assumes the believer is demanding acceptance of their beliefs and vice versa. I have argued a bunch of religious issues on this board but I do not believe I have ever once asked for or expected another person to agree with me or to profess the same beliefs I have. I have offered numerous examples of why I feel or believe the way I do on many issues, much like this Chandler guy was doing in the first video (I haven't watched the 2nd one yet), yet all too often people who disagree or don't share the same beliefs revert to a defensive or attacking position and assume that there must be some sinister purpose behind the explanations I have offered.

 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, unless there is some mutual respect for each persons view point, we're never going to get anywhere discussing issues like this. If a person is so opposed to the thought of religion, biblical teachings, existence of a God, etc., then it is futile for them to even begin discussing the issue with a person who believes. Likewise, if people like some of these religious zealots refuse to acknowledge that they can't prove the basis for their beliefs, then yes they might as well stfu.

 

You might have read me wrong???? I am not for laws discriminating against gays. I have no problem with them living their life how they see fit. It's not my job to judge them or to classify anything they do as a sin or not. I have no problem with same sex civil unions or equal rights with men & women who are traditionally married. BUT, if you ask me if I think it's a sin, you may not like the answer. And if you can't accept yes as an answer to that question, instead of me stfu how about not asking the question? If you ask me if I understand how a man can get it on with another man, I have to say I don't get it and I do have trouble accepting it as normal behavior. Just don't jump the gun and assume those answers mean I must want to advance the right wing hard line against homosexuality. I don't. Those people should have all the same rights I do to live their life as they wish. What they do doesn't affect me and therefore it is none of my business. Sorry for the rambling.

 

 

There is a HUGE disconnect on homosexuality. There's some "thing" that makes Christians think they have the right to speak out about it, to judge it, to say something about it.

 

Bottom line is, they don't. It's discriminatory, it's bigotry, it's ridiculous that in 2014 we still have to have conversations pointing this out. And yet, here we are.

 

 

 

Funniest part of your post: "BUT, if you ask me if I think it's a sin, you may not like the answer. And if you can't accept yes as an answer to that question, instead of me stfu how about not asking the question?"

 

Nobody asked the question. A Christian decided it was a good idea to post videos of a bigot being bigoted toward gays, and cloaking it in his religious beliefs.

 

A better question would be, why aren't you telling other Christians to STFU about this subject? Instead of defending their right to be bigots vocally, why not encourage them to keep it to themselves and stop harping on the people telling the bigots they're bigots?

[HeyBurke]

People have very strange ideas of what acceptance and tolerance are.

 

What's your definition, and why should gays have to be tolerated? Why can't you just love and accept your fellow man for what he or she is? People on HuskerBoard tolerate me, because I have a propensity to say some stupid sh#t. Most people on HuskerBoard accept gays for what they are, because there is nothing wrong with being gay. Matt Chandler is promoting tolerance of gays, because their sin is just as sinful as any other sin. That's dumb. The whole idea of sin is dumb, and it's straight insulting to gays to compare their sexuality to something like murder or bestiality. It's just a way to hide hate in a pretty package. Hating gay people is hate, regardless of what the Bible or any other holy book says.

 

How would you feel if the Bible said it was a sin to have sexual relations with someone a year younger than you, but those are the women you're attracted to? How would you feel if 33 states had laws that say you couldn't marry a woman a year younger than you? How would you feel if millions, perhaps billions, of people across the world hated you just because you are attracted to women a year younger than you? You'd probably feel pretty bad, huh?

 

If you can't accept two men because they like to do the dirty with each other, then you just need to grow up. I'm sure they accept you for all the sins you're guilty of.

[JJ Husker]

Knapp- I do wish these outspoken Christians would shut up about it. Why am I not telling them to? Because to my knowledge they aren't in this forum discussing the issue. Why am defending bigots? I'm not. Apparently you are having trouble accepting that some people feel it might be a sin and that little bit of information is all it takes for you to consider them a bigot or bigot friendly. I'm out, because once again it appears that people don't want an honest discussion of why some people feel the way they do and once again I'm being cast as some sort of villain on the issue yet I am sure I am at least as accepting of gay people, if not moreso, than the people I'm arguing with. Get a rope and have a ball.