Who wins 2016 Presidency?

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

People weren't against Bush for the sake of being against Bush. In the end, he was considered untouchable even by his own party.

Still is, for the most part.

 

By who? I don't know many Republicans that would support everything Bush did.

 

 

I think you misunderstood what I meant. Perhaps it was poor wording on my part. Untouchable as in no one wants anything to do with him.

 

That's how I read it.

 

Ahhh....I thought you meant "untouchable" meaning nobody is willing to criticize him.

[Hooked on Huskers]

Al Gore defeated Chimp in 2000 popular votes. Electoral vote ...... outdated law a long time ago.

 

I'm somewhat surprised Gore had disappeared in political arena.

[JJ Husker]

 

 

 

I won't try to make the argument that things are anywhere close to the same now as they were when Reagan took over from Carter. Sure there were differences of opinion and policy but nothing like when Obama was elected. It is shortsighted and easy to try to place all the blame on the obstructionist repubs Obama has experienced but, that doesn't really tell the story of where and how the schism all began. As I recall, things started getting especially contentious when Gore lost to W in 2000, and then escalated to bizarro land when Kerry lost to W in 2004. That pretty much sent the dem party over the edge IMO. We can all blame this and blame that based on our own political preferences but really the repubs reaction to Obama getting elected was simply an extension, a one upping, of the attitude the dems had already begun through the back to back disappointments of Gore & Kerry. I'm not saying this alleviates any of what the obstructionist repubs have done but, I am saying it was basically inevitable and just part of a perfect political storm. If anyone thinks that it would be any different with a dem congress and a repub in the WH, I think you're screwy. Our system is broke and it ain't going to work itself out anytime soon. The only thing that will set it on the right track now is some good old fashioned revolution and rebellion in the streets. However, I believe our people are too apathetic to begin that process before it is way too late. The fuse has been lit and it is just a matter of time until it burns it's way to the powder keg. The timing just depends on how tolerant we are of the bullsh#t going on in DC. Radical changes are needed.

 

 

There's a whole lot of revisionist history going on there.

 

And what pray tell might the revised parts be? Settle in folks (or better yet-put on your hip waders), this is about to get real interesting me thinks.

 

 

You are essentially saying that this whole thing is the fault of Democrats following the 2000 election. You forget that Bush had essentially unanimous political support following 9/11. He could have done a lot of things at that point to help the country and shape his own policy. Instead he used that backing to lie to Congress and the country getting us into a war for which we are still seeing the effects of. People weren't against Bush for the sake of being against Bush. In the end, he was considered untouchable even by his own party.

 

No, actually I said no such thing. There is plenty of blame to go around; repubs, dems, bush, etc. All I was attempting to do was more broadly frame how and why we got to the point of such a blatantly obstructionist congress. It is not as simple as a black Obama was elected and the repubs decided to go racist & retarded. Too often it is portrayed that simply.

[carlfense]

It is not as simple as a black Obama was elected and the repubs decided to go racist & retarded. Too often it is portrayed that simply.

I completely agree that most repubs obstruction wasn't purely racially motivated. That's a gross oversimplification.

[NUinID]

 

 

 

Interestingly, what made Reagan a good President was that he came into office in a time very similar to today. Americans had been beat to a pulp and nobody had a good feeling about anything. Politically, Washington was split similar to now.

 

What he brought was the ability to bring the nation together and make people feel good about themselves and the nation. He was then able to actually work with Tip O'neill and accomplish things. He was able to show people that Washington can work again even though the other party controlled congress.

Washington was not even remotely as polarized in 1980 as they are today. The affront of a Black president has shaken a significant segment of our population to their very core, so much so that they're willing to abandon reason entirely and be taken off on ridiculous irrelevant tangents (birth certificates, secret Muslim, etc). I have seen this not only in the media, but in personal conversations with friends & (most sadly) family. There were differences in 1980. There are outright schisms today.

 

The good things about Reagan are that he made the nation feel good about themselves again. He was charismatic and a fantastic figurehead. I didn't really know any Democrats back then, but near as I recollect, while he wasn't "their guy" necessarily, they respected him. They even voted for him (although neither Carter nor Mondale were very palatable options, but still).

 

The other main thing about Reagan was the bold in your quote above. Reagan was tough as nails, but he was willing to work with Tip - but the crucial flip side to that is, Tip was willing to work with Reagan. While they had different ideologies, neither was willing to burn the country to the ground rather than compromise with the other. The cooperation was mutual, not forced by Reagan nor by Tip O'Neill.

 

Today, Obama doesn't have that willingness on the flip side. In fact, he's had exactly the opposite, and it's shown in the half-disaster this country has become in the last six years. The complete unwillingness to in any way work with this president has put a huge, unnecessary strain on this country. The economy isn't nearly as healthy as it could be, jobs aren't where they should be, incomes are down, cynicism is sky-high, and we're more divided now than we were when Obama was elected the first time.

 

The Cantor upset is a HUGE red flag that things aren't going the way they should for the Republicans. This is the presumptive Speaker of the House being defeated by a political nobody. If that doesn't slap the Republicans upside the head and make them rethink this obstructionist agenda, nothing will.

 

I disagree, you put all the unwillingness to work together on the GOP. It is a two way street. Obama is as unbending as any in the GOP.

 

The Dems were the same way when GWB was president.

 

It not working because both parties are unwilling to work and compromise together.

 

Did you even read the article I linked?

 

You mean the article from the Huffington Report you linked? Yeah, I looked at it. Look, it's my opinion, you can think I am wrong all you want. I don't think either side is going out of their way to compromise and work with each other.

[strigori]

 

It goes back just a little farther into the Clinton years really. I mean we had impeachment proceedings over oral sex. And most of the gridlock you can tie right into Newt Gingrich led Contract With America, where the GOP effectively merged itself with Christian conservatives, injecting the fanaticism and fervor into politics that was not that heavily represented at the time. The GOP lost its statesmen, and they were replaced by ideologues. Bush V Gore only added fuel to the fire. I really don't think the Dems were ever that upset over Kerry.

It wasn't impeachment over oral sex. It was impeachment over perjury and obstruction of justice.

 

Yes, because somewhere a guy lying about getting a BJ ended up being 'obstruction of justice' and if oral sex was to count as 'sex' "Obstructing justice" where no crime had been committed. It was a witch hunt, plain and simple, they couldnt find anything to get him with over whitewater, so it was this. A total embarrassment of the entire nation.

[tschu]

For the next president, all I want is someone to spearhead the tax code. Increase the top marginal rates and make all income taxed the same. Stay out of the world's back yard for four years and see if anyone misses us. Easy enough, right?

 

Amen brother. Doubt it happens, one or both of the houses of Congress are likely to be Red

[tschu]

No, actually I said no such thing. There is plenty of blame to go around; repubs, dems, bush, etc. All I was attempting to do was more broadly frame how and why we got to the point of such a blatantly obstructionist congress. It is not as simple as a black Obama was elected and the repubs decided to go racist & retarded. Too often it is portrayed that simply.

 

 

The right has been racist and retarded long before Obama became president. Obama being elected has nothing to do with it.

[BigRedBuster]

Al Gore defeated Chimp in 2000 popular votes. Electoral vote ...... outdated law a long time ago.

 

I'm somewhat surprised Gore had disappeared in political arena.

 

 

He went total whack job after he lost.

[HUSKER FREAK]

Ha Ha Ha I was just going to post that Big red Buster. Except he was a total whack job when he was running. He would of been a disaster for a president and would have been even worse then what we have now.

[knapplc]

 

Did you even read the article I linked?

You mean the article from the Huffington Report you linked? Yeah, I looked at it. Look, it's my opinion, you can think I am wrong all you want. I don't think either side is going out of their way to compromise and work with each other.

 

This, right here, is why we continue to elect the same gridlock-producing nincompoops we've been electing these past several decades.

 

Actually read the article. Think about what that meeting meant. Think how infuriated you'd if it was publicized that on the night a Republican was inaugurated the biggest power brokers in the Democratic party met to openly plan how to obstruct every single thing that president did, simply because he's Republican.

 

Because if that doesn't enrage you, whether it's a Democrat or a Republican doing it, then you're not an "American," you're a "Republican" or a "Democrat."

 

And I would counsel you to stop identifying with any of these parties, register Independent, truly research the candidates, and vote for the ones who actually want to fix things.

[carlfense]

He would of been a disaster for a president and would have been even worse then what we have now.

What makes you say that he would have been a disaster? I'm wondering how many more Americans would still be alive today if that election hadn't been called by the SCOTUS . . .

[HUSKER FREAK]

The amount of spending he would have done on becoming green, and not to the extent we are seeing now but increased by about 100% or more, would have drove prices and the cost of living to an unlivable amount. His views were just way to extreme for what this country could handle all at once. It just would have been a disaster. I am sorry as far as a Commander in Chief for our Military we could not have had a pu&&y like him for leader. I know I will get blasted for the last comment but I just cant see how anyone could prove to me that he wouldn't have been.

[knapplc]

I am sorry as far as a Commander in Chief for our Military we could not have had a pu&&y like him for leader. I know I will get blasted for the last comment but I just cant see how anyone could prove to me that he wouldn't have been.

I'm no Algore supporter, but I'm pretty certain you can't prove that he would have been, either.

 

And while he's an annoying git about climate change, he's being proved more and more right every day. Which is terrifying.

[HUSKER FREAK]

I never said he was wrong about some clamate change things going on then and now. But, what I said for how extreme he was then and how fast he was ready to move would have been catastrophic for the American people.