Why isn't there as much public outrage with the cop killer...

[ZRod]

Ferguson was a peaceful protest?

[Abdullah the Butcher]

Ferguson was a peaceful protest?

When it fits the narrative.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I'm White. I'm quite qualified to have a discussion on race relations in America. I'm quite qualified to debate racism in America. I have no idea where the idea comes from that Whites can't discuss, from an informed position, race in this country.

 

 

 

@BRI - I can edit that out, but it won't be until this evening.

Some people try to act like their experts on the racism thing. Sorry, I'm not buying it, you aren't an expert because you can copy and paste links to articles from whatever source you feel free to choose whether it's a genuine source or not. The argument being made that you can sympathize with someone who has poor or has cancer is ridiculious because it's not even close to being the same. Anyone can get cancer, anyone can become poor, you aren't going to magically go to bed one night and wake up an African-American. I take the opinions here with a grain of salt. I'll add more weight to an African American's post about the topic the same way I would an expert witness in a trial.

 

 

 

#bluelivesmattertoo

 

 

 

Who the hell said they didn't???

 

You must live in a shell, there are thousands upon thousands of people that hate the police, want us dead now because they think we are "racist pigs that are only here to violate rights" I have a right to an opinion on the matter as well. My profession is being attacked unfairly and you think I'm just going to stand by and not speak up about that? That is laughable, I'm the only cop on the board, so of course I'll get attacked by you folks so you can take your anger out on me over the situation. Facts are facts

 

 

Who is attacking you or taking anger out on you? Again, you're taking things personally. There isn't a single person on here who thinks all cops are racist (and probably not anyone who thinks the majority of cops are racist). Discussing that in general the actions against minorities are disproportionate is not a personal attack on individual cops.

 

The is the first time you've taken part in these discussions that I can remember. I've done it several times here and usually get piled on for those opinions and others choose to not change their opinion on matters. I'm taking the stance now, I'm not changing my opinion either where before, I might depending on the evidence given.

 

 

Statistics can show what you want them to show depending on where you pull your data from.

 

 

No, they can't.

 

Uh, yes they can, again, to each their own, I disagree.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think it was silly, I think it makes sense, to each his own. I think it's silly to read a bunch of white folks opinions on racism in America when they really have no clue. #bluelivesmattertoo

 

 

 

Do you have to be poor to empathize with those in need? Do you have to have cancer to feel sympathy for those who do?

 

Do you have to be black to have empathy for the very real struggles of that community? That's a completely ridiculous stance to take. Absolutely 100% absurd. This country could stand a little more empathy between citizens. Maybe we wouldn't be in this f'ing mess.

 

Don't take your anger out on me, 92% of black folks are killed by other black folks. Again this isn't a racism problem, you people want to take these two incidents and turn it into a racism problem and use these incidents as an excuse. I'm sick of being told every day I'm racist and arrest more black people and show biased towards black people. It's frustrating to see two situations that had nothing to do with racism be twisted to fit agendas and drive a divide in this country. I really don't care if you think it's absurd, I think it's absurd to pull a bunch of random B.S. off of the internet to try and prove a point.

 

 

Who's telling you that? Statistics make inferences on a population in general. Nobody posting statistics (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "random B.S.") is saying that you are racist. You seem incapable of separating yourself and not being defensive about this.

 

That's because you guys don't deal with this stuff on a daily basis, easy to criticize a profession when you aren't part of it. Statistics can show what you want them to show depending on where you pull your data from.

 

 

 

Surely you can understand where the distrust of the law enforcement community comes from, right? Especially in light of the fact that the prosecutor in the Brown case allowed a witness to testify whom he knew to be lying. That isn't good.

 

You're hanging your hat on that, I never said it was a good thing, but don't act like none of the "witnesses" on Brown's side weren't lying cause they were.

 

One can support Police Officers and still denounce the fact that too many unarmed Black men are being shot dead by Police.

58 police officers killed since 2000 by "unarmed" suspects who eventually took the officers weapon and killed them with it.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

You must live in a shell, there are thousands upon thousands of people that hate the police, want us dead now because they think we are "racist pigs that are only here to violate rights"

Those people are morons. AND those people are a small minority of the population.

 

I have a right to an opinion on the matter as well.

No one is saying that you don't have a right to have an opinion.

 

My profession is being attacked unfairly and you think I'm just going to stand by and not speak up about that?

Why do you feel like your profession is being attacked? Also, it's certainly not you vs. the rest of the board or "police" vs. "everyone else."

 

In fact, I think that sort of thinking is pretty dangerous and leads to the sort of circling of the wagons that I alluded to earlier. You can believe that people don't understand what your job entails but if that is the case you'd probably be better off explaining it to them than telling them that they couldn't understand.

 

Ultimately, a large majority of the population has a very high amount of confidence and trust in the police. If you feel like your profession is under some sort of siege you're mistaken.

 

Fair enough, but a LARGE amount of officers are in fear of what's coming. There have been several threats to kill us and our families from across the nation. Then you have the federal gov't, namely the POTUS, deciding to get involved in local law enforcement matters and commenting on them which is causing further divide and distrust among citizens. Never mind civil rights leaders deciding to use these incidents as a soap box to cause further issues. Throw the press in for good measure and you've got an explosion........

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

I'm White. I'm quite qualified to have a discussion on race relations in America. I'm quite qualified to debate racism in America. I have no idea where the idea comes from that Whites can't discuss, from an informed position, race in this country.

 

 

 

@BRI - I can edit that out, but it won't be until this evening.

 

You can only discuss race relations in America if you are an officer of the law. Otherwise, you have no idea.

 

 

Apparently.

 

No one ever said that, you're reaching and making assumptions, I'm a white man, I have no idea what blacks face on a daily basis and I don't try and pretend to know either. But, I don't allow that fact that they are black to be used an excuse as to why someone doesn't want to get off their ass and take responsibility for their own lives. The same can be said for any race or any sexuality, at least that's my opinion.

 

BRI, I'm curious about what you think the problem is. Why does a large portion of the African-American population hate/distrust the police? There's obviously a disconnect somewhere and, as an officer of the law, I would like to hear your input on the matter.

The problem is people looking for excuses for their lawless behavior and looking for handouts and to point fingers. You know Iowa apparently has the largest discrepancy in reference to more blacks being arrested for marijuana usage than whites? At least that's what an article said the other day on MSN.com. I've arrested 10 times as many white people for marijuana than blacks and it's probably a larger gap than that and I've been doing this 13 years.

 

Communication would help solve some problems, but accountability for poor choices would be helpful as well.

 

 

 

One can support Police Officers and still denounce the fact that too many unarmed Black men are being shot dead by Police.

The cops aren't just out there shooting black men for no reason. If you don't want to get shot, don't put yourself in harms way and if a cop says "Hands up" then reach for the sky and do it quick. And that means black, white, yellow, brown or whatever. Lots of bad guys out there and skin color has no boundaries for good or bad.

T_O_B

 

This doesn't explain Tamir Rice's situation. At all.

 

Pretending that Police can do no wrong is not healthy in a Democracy. We should respect the Police for their service, and nearly everyone does. But we should not pretend that every time there's been a fatal shooting by the Police that they did everything right.

 

No one said that every time their is a fatal shooting everything was done right. But in the situation in Missouri, Michael Brown chose his fate that day. The officer did the right thing...........

 

 

 

 

 

Statistics can show what you want them to show depending on where you pull your data from.

No, they can't.

You can manipulate numbers to support any stand you decide to take.

lol. No you can't. Unless you just flat out change the numbers. Statistics are statistics and they say what they say. They're either gathered and interpreted correctly or they aren't.

And you might want to re-read the topic before you reply to my post and talk about pissing and moaning about cops. I've done neither of those things.

It's that gathering and interpretation that is being questioned. Statistics need context as well. In socioeconomic issues statistics can't be used as an end all be all. There are far, far too many variables influencing them. I think they can be used for a guide, but still need to be looked at with an open mind.

 

Thank you for describing this, couldn't have said it better myself.........

 

 

It's that gathering and interpretation that is being questioned. Statistics need context as well. In socioeconomic issues statistics can't be used as an end all be all. There are far, far too many variables influencing them. I think they can be used for a guide, but still need to be looked at with an open mind.

I only agree with 64% of this post. That statistic don't lie.

 

They do if your pool you pull from is skewed. How many burglaries did I prevent last night by patrolling over 100 miles? You can't measure that accurately........

[ZRod]

 

It's that gathering and interpretation that is being questioned. Statistics need context as well. In socioeconomic issues statistics can't be used as an end all be all. There are far, far too many variables influencing them. I think they can be used for a guide, but still need to be looked at with an open mind.

I only agree with 64% of this post. That statistic don't lie.

73.6% percent of statistics are made up

[knapplc]

 

One can support Police Officers and still denounce the fact that too many unarmed Black men are being shot dead by Police.

58 police officers killed since 2000 by "unarmed" suspects who eventually took the officers weapon and killed them with it.

 

And I think to a man (errr... person (sorry, Moiraine)) in this conversation, we'd all say that's a tragedy. In the grand scheme of things, every sane person is on the side of the Police.

 

But a couple of questions:

 

1) Where did you find statistics on how many police officers have been killed in the line of duty with their own weapon since 2000?

 

2) Where can I find statistics on how many unarmed civilians have been killed by police?

 

We can break that data down to 2000-2014 if that's easier.

 

The reason I ask is, that data doesn't appear to be tracked, at least not with any specificity. It would be a bit self-serving of our justice system to produce numbers like "58 police officers killed since 2000," which seems awfully specific, when at best we have to guess at the numbers of unarmed civilians killed by Police.

 

 

This is not to suggest that a tit-for-tat situation exists, or that any officers' deaths are "OK" because "X" number of civilians have been killed by Police. Any way you look at it, those deaths are tragedies.

 

 

 

Regarding race, and my ability to speak knowledgeably about the situation. If, after reading the PM I just sent you, you still persist in that idea, I'd invite you to ignore everyone's voice in this thread, including those who are speaking in favor of you. If I cannot speak from a position of knowledge about the subject of race relations in America, then nobody can empathize with the Police, and any efforts to try to explain to us civilians is wasted. Further, no one who is not or has not been a cop can ever hope to empathize, and any appeals for empathy must fall on deaf ears.

 

What that describes is an inseparable gulf between anyone who is or was a Police Officer and anyone who isn't. And that is simply not true.

[tschu]

One can support Police Officers and still denounce the fact that too many unarmed Black men are being shot dead by Police.

 

BRI, please read this post. Nobody is going to war against the police forces of America. People are protesting because justice and accountability is necessary.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

This article cites data taken from the FBI and officer down memorial page, it's actually 57 according to the article.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2014/08/30/57-police-officers-were-fatally-shot-by-unarmed-suspects/

 

Your opinions are your opinions, I may disagree with them, but that's what makes this country great. I will however stand up and say "bull$hit" if I see it and I expect others to do the same. Despite what's being spread about us I don't go to work on a daily basis thinking, "How can I violate someone's rights today?" "The System" as some have called it, hasn't trained me in a way to be bias and I'm not biased and 99% of the officers out there aren't either. Just like all black people aren't bad, I've met several great black folks and few bad ones. I've met a lot of bad white people though.........

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

One can support Police Officers and still denounce the fact that too many unarmed Black men are being shot dead by Police.

 

BRI, please read this post. Nobody is going to war against the police forces of America. People are protesting because justice and accountability is necessary.

 

My problem lies with how they present their argument. It's a finger pointing blame game towards the police and people don't blame themselves as well and then label all of us. I've dealt with situations since Ferguson where people use that against me and I take offense to that, again facts are facts. Look, I'm passionate about what I do and that's a good and bad thing. This job DOES change your opinions on things and there's no way around that. I'm not looking to insult people and if the disagree that's completely fine. But understand, I have a different perspective to things than some of you do and I do my best to give you the police perspective if to only help give you more information to form a better opinion. I hope you do support us because we need it and we're hurting, scared, pissed, hesitant, etc now because of all of this.

[tschu]

Well, the general population is pretty hurt, scared, pissed, and hesitant too. The difference with your regular citizen is that we don't carry legal authority and a lethal weapon. When I screw up at my job, customers receive incorrect data. When police officers screw up at their job, people end up hurt and dead. That's why there's a demand for justice. And you should want justice and accountability too, BRI, in order to help make your fellow officers better at their job.

[Abdullah the Butcher]

Well, the general population is pretty hurt, scared, pissed, and hesitant too. The difference with your regular citizen is that we don't carry legal authority and a lethal weapon. When I screw up at my job, customers receive incorrect data. When police officers screw up at their job, people end up hurt and dead. That's why there's a demand for justice. And you should want justice and accountability too, BRI, in order to help make your fellow officers better at their job.

A small population is, most people go about their day without ever thinking of police.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Well, the general population is pretty hurt, scared, pissed, and hesitant too. The difference with your regular citizen is that we don't carry legal authority and a lethal weapon. When I screw up at my job, customers receive incorrect data. When police officers screw up at their job, people end up hurt and dead. That's why there's a demand for justice. And you should want justice and accountability too, BRI, in order to help make your fellow officers better at their job.

We do a pretty good job here weeding out the bad ones. Eventually they make themselves known and we push them out the door and say see ya!

[walksalone]

The problem is the general piss poor attitude in this country...

 

Lately it seems like if anything bad happens it's race related. It's not about race, it's about being responsible.

[T_O_Bull]

The problem is the general piss poor attitude in this country...

 

Lately it seems like if anything bad happens it's race related. It's not about race, it's about being responsible.

Its not just our piss poor attitude Walks, its the a$$holes in this world who kill in the name of their god, the a$$holes who kill little girls because they are learning how to read, its the a$$holes who think the color of your skin designates who you are. If I come after you its not because of your skin color or your religion its because you kicked my dog and if you do that your life is in danger because no one kicks my dog. The cops are out there doing a $hitty job that is designed to keep all of us safe. Unfortunately, the only time most of us interact with cops is when we roll through a stop sign or drive 76 in a 65 MPH zone. But tell me this folks, who do you want around when you get mugged in a dark park? And if the cop shoots the SOB who is trying to dig your wallet out of your pocket are you going to cry for the mugger or hug the cop? I know what I'm doin. I'm huggin that cop.

 

I got a little long here Walks but just know I'm with you Brudder.

T_O_B