Which team was more talented?

[knapplc]

People have clearly forgotten how dominant and unstoppable Suh was. Wow.

[zoogs]

If Carter quintuples his 2014 catch number this year he will have almost as many catches as Mike McNeil in 2008. Maybe he can. It's not like 32 catches is a lot. But let's see it. There's more to being a college player than athleticism, and McNeil was solid as hell.

 

So was Swift. And DPE -- sure. Maybe he puts some extra distance between this year's WRs in a new system and the veteran 2008 group in a WCO they had been running for years. But he hasn't seen the field yet, so hopefully, if we're using comparative talent as a measure for how concerned we ought to be, we're going to take that into account. Sans the DPE wild card, I'd maybe take 2008 by a nose. Less athletic, more polished.

 

And then, there's the 2008 OL. Should be well ahead of this group. We returned a pretty capable, smoothly running machine on offense -- even if it wasn't top-of-the-line explosive.

[Guy Chamberlin]

People have clearly forgotten how dominant and unstoppable Suh was. Wow.

 

Nobody has forgotten Suh. But it doesn't make your case.

 

Lots of teams can feature an incredible player and a losing record at the same time. Like Suh in 2007.

 

Only in hindsight could you declare the 2007 Huskers loaded with talent just waiting to emerge with a new coach in 2008. We don't have that hindsight on 2015 yet.

 

Suh and Crick entered 2008 less heralded than Valentine and Collins this year. Nothing they did or will do can prevent an opponent from exploiting the weak links in the rest of the talent pool.

 

Put a gun to my head and I'll pick 2008 to defeat 2015 head to head. But I'm not buying the empty cupboard theory. Nobody would have considered this a rebuilding year for Bo Pelini. Too many returners from a 9 win team. Unlike 2008.

 

That Nebraska has dropped out of the elite recruiting classes hasn't been debated for several years.

 

This is a long and counter-intuitive way of saying I remain optimistic about the talent we have, the coach we have, and the talent he will get.

[zoogs]

If people weren't going to consider this a rebuilding year for Pelini, they would have been sorely disappointed. The fact that it was going to be yet another "depth issues, so just wait for the recruiting" is one of several reasons I am really happy they finally made the change.

[NUinID]

 

People have clearly forgotten how dominant and unstoppable Suh was. Wow.

 

Nobody has forgotten Suh. But it doesn't make your case.

 

Lots of teams can feature an incredible player and a losing record at the same time. Like Suh in 2007.

 

Only in hindsight could you declare the 2007 Huskers loaded with talent just waiting to emerge with a new coach in 2008. We don't have that hindsight on 2015 yet.

 

Suh and Crick entered 2008 less heralded than Valentine and Collins this year. Nothing they did or will do can prevent an opponent from exploiting the weak links in the rest of the talent pool.

 

Put a gun to my head and I'll pick 2008 to defeat 2015 head to head. But I'm not buying the empty cupboard theory. Nobody would have considered this a rebuilding year for Bo Pelini. Too many returners from a 9 win team. Unlike 2008.

 

That Nebraska has dropped out of the elite recruiting classes hasn't been debated for several years.

 

This is a long and counter-intuitive way of saying I remain optimistic about the talent we have, the coach we have, and the talent he will get.

 

 

Crick didn't play much in 2008 it was Baker's older brother Ty, who I might add was a very solid player. A little undersized but a motor that wouldn't quit.

 

Nice post Blackshirt316 I agree completely that this team will look a lot different at the end of the season, just like 2008 did. I like the direction of both the offense and the defense. The passing defense will get better people.

[BigRedBuster]

I hope/believe this group will continue to grow over this year and into next fall and after the 2016 year, we will look back and think we have more talent than some on here think we have.

 

[Kiyoat Husker]

I created a line chart that I think gives a good picture of Nebraska's talent level on every team 1990-2015. I used a 4-year rolling average, and recruiting rankings from this article:

 

http://hailvarsity.com/news/college-football-recruiting/a-brief-history-of-husker-recruiting-rankings-1987-2012/2013/01/

 

I had to fill in the last 3 years myself with average class rankings from Rivals, Scout, ESPN, and 247sports.

 

I also included final AP/Coaches Poll rankings to compare team talent level to acheivement.

 

I am unable to post it from this computer, so I will have to do it this evening. I think you guys will have a lot of talking points from it. I was going to start another thread, but it does fit this topic pretty well.

more to come...

[Kiyoat Husker]

Having trouble posting the image, getting the message "you can't post that image extension in this community"

 

I've tried PDF, jpeg, gif, nothing. I can copy/paste images from online, but no dice on this image..

 

 

PM me if you can help.

[BigRedBuster]

Having trouble posting the image, getting the message "you can't post that image extension in this community"

 

I've tried PDF, jpeg, gif, nothing. I can copy/paste images from online, but no dice on this image..

 

 

PM me if you can help.

You have to post it to another website first.

[Kiyoat Husker]

 

finally! Have at it.

 

Mods, if you think this should be in another thread, feel free.

 

Lots of trends here: Osborne consistently over-utilized his talent (duh) ---- Solich was up and down ---- Calahan was just bad (on-field) -- Pelini was right at the talent level

 

Also - Compare Solich's first 3 years with Pelini's.

 

Talent-wise : I think the chart is pretty clear on trends. If Riley gets us ranked this year (and I think he will) it should be considered an over-utilization of talent. He will need some time to rebuild IMO.

[VectorVictor]

It's simply not deniable that the 2008 roster was more complete and more talented -- especially on defense -- than the 2015 roster.

 

Folks seem to forget that Callahan WAS getting things done on the both the recruiting and offensive fronts. His downfall is that he wouldn't replace Cosgrove as DC with someone competent (as well as a couple of the position coaches to boot), and Callahan lost the job because of his DC's ¡Olé! 'Matador' defensive scheme. The talent was there, but the coaching (at least for the defense) was not.

 

I and others have rightfully contended that had Callahan given Cosgrove the boot and replaced him with someone competent, he'd still be coaching at DoNU today, and likely with a few skins on the wall.

 

---

 

That's my concern with Riley and why there are comparisons to Callahan--is he so loyal that, if we continue to have problems next year on defense, that he won't be able to pull the trigger on replacing his buddy at DC? And Banker's resume, like Cosgrove's isn't exactly stellar to begin with.

 

2008's team tells us that success alone on the recruiting trail isn't enough to make this or any defense better. Unfortunately, we're 1.75 seasons away from being able to adequately assess if Banker is the second coming of Cosgrove or not...and if Riley is capable of not making the same mistake his predecessor did in employing his buddies over long-term success.

[suh_fan93]

We don't have anywhere near the talent on this team that we had in 2008.

[GBRedneck]

Folks seem to forget that Callahan WAS getting things done on the both the recruiting and offensive fronts. His downfall is that he wouldn't replace Cosgrove as DC with someone competent (as well as a couple of the position coaches to boot), and Callahan lost the job because of his DC's ¡Olé! 'Matador' defensive scheme. The talent was there, but the coaching (at least for the defense) was not.

 

I and others have rightfully contended that had Callahan given Cosgrove the boot and replaced him with someone competent, he'd still be coaching at DoNU today, and likely with a few skins on the wall.

 

 

This is just so wrong.

 

First off, Cosgrove's defense was the only thing working prior to '07. In '07, the offense hung the D out to dry with too many 3 and outs, low TOP and turnovers.

 

And Callahan's "best" offense in 2007 was a paper tiger. They put up more points in garbage time than any other team in the country. 25% of their production was near the end of blowout games. They essentially didn't even show up against any team with a pulse (until 5 minutes left in the game when they were already down by 4 scores.) Solich's offenses averaged more points per game than Callahan's.

 

And he really wasn't doing that great in recruiting. The touted '05 class turned out to be a disaster. Even with that class's inflated ranking, Callahan's average class ranking on Scout was worse than Solich's.

 

Callahan was a dumpster fire. The biggest mystery is why people are trying to rewrite history to make that hack look better??

[HuskerShark]

 

Folks seem to forget that Callahan WAS getting things done on the both the recruiting and offensive fronts. His downfall is that he wouldn't replace Cosgrove as DC with someone competent (as well as a couple of the position coaches to boot), and Callahan lost the job because of his DC's ¡Olé! 'Matador' defensive scheme. The talent was there, but the coaching (at least for the defense) was not.

 

I and others have rightfully contended that had Callahan given Cosgrove the boot and replaced him with someone competent, he'd still be coaching at DoNU today, and likely with a few skins on the wall.

 

 

This is just so wrong.

 

First off, Cosgrove's defense was the only thing working prior to '07. In '07, the offense hung the D out to dry with too many 3 and outs, low TOP and turnovers.

 

And Callahan's "best" offense in 2007 was a paper tiger. They put up more points in garbage time than any other team in the country. 25% of their production was near the end of blowout games. They essentially didn't even show up against any team with a pulse (until 5 minutes left in the game when they were already down by 4 scores.) Solich's offenses averaged more points per game than Callahan's.

 

And he really wasn't doing that great in recruiting. The touted '05 class turned out to be a disaster. Even with that class's inflated ranking, Callahan's average class ranking on Scout was worse than Solich's.

 

Callahan was a dumpster fire. The biggest mystery is why people are trying to rewrite history to make that hack look better??

 

 

If they would have started Ganz the whole year in '07, it would have been a different story also IMO. Promising the starting position to Keller was another downfall of Callahan.

 

But I'm gonna agree with VectorVictor. I've said it multiple times as well, that if Callahan would have given Cosgrove the boot, he would have had lots of success.

 

Unfortunately, we may have had recruiting violations creep up as well from the things I've heard with the Callahan regime.

 

We're still a program clinging to its past trying to rekindle the fire. I'll always support the head coach at Nebraska, but these first 2 games have given me a lot of doubt and lack of optimism, which is honestly extremely depressing.

[Guy Chamberlin]

 

Folks seem to forget that Callahan WAS getting things done on the both the recruiting and offensive fronts. His downfall is that he wouldn't replace Cosgrove as DC with someone competent (as well as a couple of the position coaches to boot), and Callahan lost the job because of his DC's ¡Olé!™ 'Matador' defensive scheme. The talent was there, but the coaching (at least for the defense) was not.

 

I and others have rightfully contended that had Callahan given Cosgrove the boot and replaced him with someone competent, he'd still be coaching at DoNU today, and likely with a few skins on the wall.

 

 

This is just so wrong.

 

First off, Cosgrove's defense was the only thing working prior to '07. In '07, the offense hung the D out to dry with too many 3 and outs, low TOP and turnovers.

 

And Callahan's "best" offense in 2007 was a paper tiger. They put up more points in garbage time than any other team in the country. 25% of their production was near the end of blowout games. They essentially didn't even show up against any team with a pulse (until 5 minutes left in the game when they were already down by 4 scores.) Solich's offenses averaged more points per game than Callahan's.

 

And he really wasn't doing that great in recruiting. The touted '05 class turned out to be a disaster. Even with that class's inflated ranking, Callahan's average class ranking on Scout was worse than Solich's.

 

Callahan was a dumpster fire. The biggest mystery is why people are trying to rewrite history to make that hack look better??

 

 

When you start with the premise that the 2007 offense hung Kevin Cosgrove's defense out to dry, the rest of your argument is immediately invalid.

 

That is probably the biggest stretch of logic I have ever heard on HuskerBoard.