University of Misery

[gobiggergoredder]

Regarding the grad student's wealth, why does that matter? If he, personally can afford it, I promise you that this is not true of every grad student.

 

 

I would suggest to anyone that can not adequately provide for themselves, or that are not satisfied with the terms of their student employment, find something else to do. It's a part time job. Get another one.

[knapplc]

 

if orson wells could see us now...

So true, yet no one knows what you are referring to. Another day on the farm.

 

Err... this is a pretty educated forum, especially in this particular forum. I'd wager that nearly everyone here knows this very obvious reference.

[knapplc]

I'll say this - if it's a hoax, I'm not shocked. We know some of it's true (one of the swastikas), but if glommers-on have glommed on to further their own personal agendas, well congratulations, because you've set race relations back a fair bit.

 

Anyone hoaxing racism should be dealt with harshly. There's real, actual factual racism out there right now, and it's not to be made light of, or used for political gain (COUGH-Al Sharpton-COUGH).

 

I was saddened that there would be racist acts on Missouri's campus. I'd be even more saddened if kids used that as a tool for their own personal gain.

[gobiggergoredder]

 

 

if orson wells could see us now...

So true, yet no one knows what you are referring to. Another day on the farm.

Err... this is a pretty educated forum, especially in this particular forum. I'd wager that nearly everyone here knows this very obvious reference.

Yeah. I own that one. I was thinking Orwell. Can't edit that out.

[Ulty]

Well, everyone wants to keep raising the stakes. Do we really need to draw lines in the sand and either believe that (1) the whole world is racist or (2) all of this is a hoax? There is sure to be embellishment from both sides, that does not mean the problem should not be taken seriously, because the problem most certainly does exist.

 

It is indisputable that racial tensions are inflamed at Mizzou, and that the concerns (embellished or not) were not handled appropriately.

 

Hoax or not, the president did not give any indication that he was even listening to the concerns that were presented to him, and he hid like a turtle when confronted in person. He admitted his own mishandling of the situation. What a leader should do in that situation is show support for the students, immediately condemn any alleged discrimination/intimidation/wrongdoing, promise to fully investigate the incidents, and inviting and listening to a continued dialogue. Failure to respond appropriately allows others to take matters into their own hands: in the form of protests, anger, backlash, embellishment, media firestorms, etc. The state of Missouri (and the whole country) has already had enough of that in the past year or so.

 

Fabricating a claim does nothing to help either side. Neither does discounting someone else's feelings or personal situation. Neither does speculating that certain incidents are hoaxes, especially if those alleged incidents are not the primary source of the escalated tensions, but simply another brick in the wall. Calling something a hoax gives license to doubters to call everything a hoax.

 

There is no denying that the racial tensions are real, no matter how much you criticize individual protesters or incidents. The situation is bigger than any specific claim.

 

So how should we respond? By trying to find a way to understand others a little better and expose hatred and ignorance? Or by turning a blind eye to a festering problem? Or by minimizing the concerns of those who are actually in the midst of it because it doesn't fit our own myopic view? Try to think of an answer and question whether or not your personal response helps or hurts.

[Ulty]

By the way, now that the hoax article has gone viral, there is now an actual police report to substantiate it. Look it up.

 

And yes, anyone who smears feces on a wall most certainly has some mental issues. I have worked with the mental health community and would not discount mental illness in any situation. But to prop that up in place of the racial strife that is going on is a straw man argument. It does nothing to reduce the real tensions that are going on. After all, bigotry can be considered a mental disorder as well.

[knapplc]

A fair argument can be made that anyone who commits a crime has a mental issue. That excuse is a non-starter and was, at best, disappointing.

[White Flash]

A fair argument can be made that anyone who commits a crime has a mental issue. That excuse is a non-starter and was, at best, disappointing.

i mean, there's apparently something "wrong" with em. "mental issues" and all. kind of like the kid that hacked the jogger to death in dallas. i'm sure he has "mental issues", does that make him less guilty? he's just kinda wrong and it isn't his fault? not really wrong even though it's certainly not right? sounds like a truckload of horsestuff to me. of course there's something "wrong" with these people. something in their brain tells them it's okay to kill innocent people or make things up to get people fired/get attention. we could go on all day about what may, or may not, go on in a person's brain. "right" or "wrong", people are what they are and we need to decide if it's ok to be a murderer and/or a liar.

[Creighton Duke]

My bringing up the possibility of mental disorders being in play in a single one of these acts was not intended to divert the entire conversation or to excuse the alleged actions committed.

 

However, those downplaying or marginalizing the very real problems that those suffering from these issues deal with on a daily basis are simply bullies.

 

Those resorting to mob intimidation tactics, assault, and to infringing on First Amendment rights are simply bullies and criminals.

 

Those fabricating threats and reporting false information in the attempt to incite are simply bullies and criminals.

 

Those lofting actual threats and hurtful language towards anyone (including marginalized and minority populations) are simply bullies.

 

The point? Don't be a bully or a criminal.

[knapplc]

My bringing up the possibility of mental disorders being in play in a single one of these acts was not intended to divert the entire conversation or to excuse the alleged actions committed.

 

That's good to hear.

 

 

However, those downplaying or marginalizing the very real problems that those suffering from these issues deal with on a daily basis are simply bullies.

 

 

Wow. That sounds terrible. Who's doing that?

 

 

Those resorting to mob intimidation tactics, assault, and to infringing on First Amendment rights are simply bullies and criminals.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Those fabricating threats and reporting false information in the attempt to incite are simply bullies and criminals.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Those lofting actual threats and hurtful language towards anyone (including marginalized and minority populations) are simply bullies.

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

The point? Don't be a bully or a criminal.

 

This is a pretty controversial stance, but I'm going to conditionally agree with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

See? PEACE IN OUR TIME!

[Creighton Duke]

Deleted

[zoogs]

Absolutely nobody is trying to dismiss the idea of mental care for those suffering. That has nothing to do with also wanting to listen to and address the concerns of those who deal with racism.

 

I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement about support for the mentally ill. I'm sure we're all in agreement about support for the assaulted reporter. I'm sure we're all in agreement about condemnation of hoaxers or embellishers. At some point that agreement seems to disappear (not with you personally, Duke), and that point, in this thread, appears to be with those who are confronted with and speak out about racism.

 

To say "their concerns are not legitimate", "so? he's rich or accomplished or got voted ____", "racism isn't real", and yes "this is ____ problem, not a racism problem", I mean, if that's not downplaying and marginalizing, then nothing is.

[Creighton Duke]

I appreciate that, Zoogs, but as I've said multiple times, the point of my posts has not been to take attention away from the topic at hand. Others have latched onto the mental health topic and have run with it in directions that don't appear to be sensitive to this population's struggles.

 

I don't think anyone wants to marginalize and kind of legitimate oppression, whether in the form of hate speech, discrimination, or any other method. However, it is irresponsible to:

 

NOT scrutinize the validity of the claims being made. Too often it seems as though we blindly take any kind of dissenting word as truth. At times, many still cling to initial statements even in the face of evidence to prove otherwise (see UVA and Colombia case for examples of this).

 

Drop an atomic bomb in response to a gunshot. Looking at the incidents in question (if they prove to all be true), a response and action ARE necessary. However, the demands made by the protesting group do not match the allegations levied, and, in many cases, they do not appear to be demands that would lead to actual, progressive change. To oust a man who has not even in a position of power when many of the levied allegations occurred is incredibly irresponsible and the precedent that this will set for future activity of this kind is irresponsible at best and immoral at worst.

[knapplc]

Thanks.

[zoogs]

and, in many cases, they do not appear to be demands that would lead to actual, progressive change

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, from the beginning, you look at their list of demands and go "......"

 

There seemed to be a lot more anger in there than anything else.

 

Protest is great, and so is activism, but it can also be terribly misapplied. I can still see the argument that a fresh approach was needed, but it's not entirely convincing that the man should have had to resign from his position. I am by nature a pretty status quo guy, though -- and I agree, better to demand specific, substantive changes instead of a sweeping ouster. Activism has to hold itself accountable when it's not being used in the right way.