Donald Trump vs. The Pope

[QMany]

 

If the Pope can't question someone's Christianity, who can?

Donald Trump.

 

[BigRedBuster]

 

If the Pope can't question someone's Christianity, who can?

Donald Trump.

 

Trump wil say what ever he thinks will get him votes at the moment. It doesn't matter if he's contradicting something he said less than a week ago.

[NUance]

 

 

For the most part I think The Don is an egotistical buffoon and lacks the diplomacy skills necessary to be an effective political leader. But I do agree with this part of his quote:

 

For a religious leader to question a person’s faith is disgraceful. I am proud to be a Christian and as President I will not allow Christianity to be consistently attacked and weakened, unlike what is happening now, with our current President. No leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man’s religion or faith. They are using the Pope as a pawn and they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so, especially when so many lives are involved and when illegal immigration is so rampant.

 

 

 

How is Christianity being consistently attacked and weakened? Is that Obama's doing?

 

I mostly meant that it's disgraceful for a religious leader to question a person’s faith. But I don't disagree with his comment that Christianity is being attacked and weakened. I don't really want to get into the thorny issues concerning gay marriage and the separation of church/state in this thread. So let's just look at our foreign policy—a aspect of our federal government that is largely under the control of the executive branch. Some people think that Obama, and our government in general, provides more support for Jews in the Middle East than for Christians. Consider the Syrian refugee crisis where Christians are being targeted and slaughtered by the hundreds. Last year the Obama administration allowed only 31 Syrian Christian refugees into the U.S. That's about 1.5% of the 2015 Syrians immigrants to the U.S. And we've been providing about a half billion $$ per year to assist the Syrian Christian crisis for the past five years or so. At the same time we send around ten times that much—about $5 billion per year—to their neighbors down the road, Israel. If you ask me I'd say the folks in Syria are in more dire need of aid money than Israel. But I guess the Israeli lobby has more clout and lines more pockets in Washington DC than the Christians from Syria who are being slaughtered.

 

 

Who is "They" that is using the Pope as a pawn? Is "They" Obama who Trump has repeatedly implied is Muslim?

 

I got the impression that he was talking about the Mexican government. That they think things will go bad for them if Trump is elected.

 

 

Obama, who may or not be a Muslim, is controlling the Pope as his pawn while consistently attacking and weakening Christianity at the same time? Do I have that right?

 

Ha ha! Obama is not a Muslim. Where do you get this stuff anyway?

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

For the most part I think The Don is an egotistical buffoon and lacks the diplomacy skills necessary to be an effective political leader. But I do agree with this part of his quote:

 

For a religious leader to question a person’s faith is disgraceful. I am proud to be a Christian and as President I will not allow Christianity to be consistently attacked and weakened, unlike what is happening now, with our current President. No leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man’s religion or faith. They are using the Pope as a pawn and they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so, especially when so many lives are involved and when illegal immigration is so rampant.

 

 

 

How is Christianity being consistently attacked and weakened? Is that Obama's doing?

 

I mostly meant that it's disgraceful for a religious leader to question a person’s faith. But I don't disagree with his comment that Christianity is being attacked and weakened. I don't really want to get into the thorny issues concerning gay marriage and the separation of church/state in this thread. So let's just look at our foreign policy—a aspect of our federal government that is largely under the control of the executive branch. Some people think that Obama, and our government in general, provides more support for Jews in the Middle East than for Christians. Consider the Syrian refugee crisis where Christians are being targeted and slaughtered by the hundreds. Last year the Obama administration allowed only 31 Syrian Christian refugees into the U.S. That's about 1.5% of the 2015 Syrians immigrants to the U.S. And we've been providing about a half billion $$ per year to assist the Syrian Christian crisis for the past five years or so. At the same time we send around ten times that much—about $5 billion per year—to their neighbors down the road, Israel. If you ask me I'd say the folks in Syria are in more dire need of aid money than Israel. But I guess the Israeli lobby has more clout and lines more pockets in Washington DC than the Christians from Syria who are being slaughtered.

 

 

Who is "They" that is using the Pope as a pawn? Is "They" Obama who Trump has repeatedly implied is Muslim?

 

I got the impression that he was talking about the Mexican government. That they think things will go bad for them if Trump is elected.

 

 

Obama, who may or not be a Muslim, is controlling the Pope as his pawn while consistently attacking and weakening Christianity at the same time? Do I have that right?

 

Ha ha! Obama is not a Muslim. Where do you get this stuff anyway?

 

 

 

To your bottom 2 responses, he's being sarcastic and mocking Trump. To the bolded paragraph... no no no no no.

 

Can you even imagine what the Republicans would say if we started sending as much money to support anyone in a Muslim country as we send to Israel? Obama is already constantly being criticized for not supporting Israel. You'd have to be living under a rock to not hear this. If Obama slowed the flow of money to Israel which has been going on for decades things would explode. Furthermore, the Republican leadership is the group that is most opposed to us letting in ANY Syrian refugees. That's another thing you'd have to be living under a rock to not hear. He LITERALLY can't do anything right, apparently.

 

There is no attack on Christianity in the U.S. Christians just have a tendency to a) feel persecuted or b) want to feel persecuted.

 

What you listed is not persecution in the U.S. And I know you said you don't want to bring it up, but letting gays get married is not persecuting Christians. Keeping government separate from religion is not persecuting Christians.

 

 

One more thing about Israel - they are surrounded by enemies. Without our aid they would have been obliterated by now.

[knapplc]

I mostly meant that it's disgraceful for a religious leader to question a person’s faith.

 

 

 

If religious leaders can't, who can?

[NUance]

 

 

 

 

For the most part I think The Don is an egotistical buffoon and lacks the diplomacy skills necessary to be an effective political leader. But I do agree with this part of his quote:

 

For a religious leader to question a person’s faith is disgraceful. I am proud to be a Christian and as President I will not allow Christianity to be consistently attacked and weakened, unlike what is happening now, with our current President. No leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man’s religion or faith. They are using the Pope as a pawn and they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so, especially when so many lives are involved and when illegal immigration is so rampant.

 

 

 

How is Christianity being consistently attacked and weakened? Is that Obama's doing?

 

I mostly meant that it's disgraceful for a religious leader to question a person’s faith. But I don't disagree with his comment that Christianity is being attacked and weakened. I don't really want to get into the thorny issues concerning gay marriage and the separation of church/state in this thread. So let's just look at our foreign policy—a aspect of our federal government that is largely under the control of the executive branch. Some people think that Obama, and our government in general, provides more support for Jews in the Middle East than for Christians. Consider the Syrian refugee crisis where Christians are being targeted and slaughtered by the hundreds. Last year the Obama administration allowed only 31 Syrian Christian refugees into the U.S. That's about 1.5% of the 2015 Syrians immigrants to the U.S. And we've been providing about a half billion $$ per year to assist the Syrian Christian crisis for the past five years or so. At the same time we send around ten times that much—about $5 billion per year—to their neighbors down the road, Israel. If you ask me I'd say the folks in Syria are in more dire need of aid money than Israel. But I guess the Israeli lobby has more clout and lines more pockets in Washington DC than the Christians from Syria who are being slaughtered.

 

 

Who is "They" that is using the Pope as a pawn? Is "They" Obama who Trump has repeatedly implied is Muslim?

 

I got the impression that he was talking about the Mexican government. That they think things will go bad for them if Trump is elected.

 

 

Obama, who may or not be a Muslim, is controlling the Pope as his pawn while consistently attacking and weakening Christianity at the same time? Do I have that right?

 

Ha ha! Obama is not a Muslim. Where do you get this stuff anyway?

 

 

 

To your bottom 2 responses, he's being sarcastic and mocking Trump. To the bolded paragraph... no no no no no.

 

Can you even imagine what the Republicans would say if we started sending as much money to support anyone in a Muslim country as we send to Israel? Obama is already constantly being criticized for not supporting Israel. You'd have to be living under a rock to not hear this. If Obama slowed the flow of money to Israel which has been going on for decades things would explode. Furthermore, the Republican leadership is the group that is most opposed to us letting in ANY Syrian refugees. That's another thing you'd have to be living under a rock to not hear. He LITERALLY can't do anything right, apparently.

 

There is no attack on Christianity in the U.S. Christians just have a tendency to a) feel persecuted or b) want to feel persecuted.

 

What you listed is not persecution in the U.S.

 

 

One more thing about Israel - they are surrounded by enemies. Without our aid they would have been obliterated by now.

 

 

I guess I hold some antiquated views. I think we should send Aid money to places where people are starving and oppressed. And I don't think we should provide military aid money to a first world, nuclear power. We send Israel about $3 billion each, for both of these categories. Every single year. Why is that? Do we have to pay them to be our friend? Let's take that $6 billion/year and send it to Mississippi and Arkansas instead, for new schools and public works projects.

 

And, yes. I realize the Israeli lobby is so firmly entrenched in U.S. politics, and they've lined the pockets of so many politicians, that it would cause a huge uproar to even suggest weaning them off the dole. In fact (NUance puts tin foil hat on) just writing this on a football message board probably got my name added to some NSA list for unAmerican thoughts.

[NUance]

 

I mostly meant that it's disgraceful for a religious leader to question a person’s faith.

 

 

 

If religious leaders can't, who can?

 

 

Hate the sin, not the sinner. Instead of saying this: “A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian,” it might have been better to say this: “Building walls instead of building bridges is not the Christian way.”

[zoogs]

You know, I would've expected Pope Francis to have said something more like, "These are not very Christian things that Donald Trump is advocating. I'll be praying for him."

[knapplc]

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

Using this logic, can I have my warning point removed?

[Saunders]

Donald Trump: Let Me Tell You About Smaug

 

Let me tell you about Smaug. Now, I knew the guy a long time, a good friend, he worked with me on the Laketown deal and told me he learned a lot from watching me. You could say I invented him. By the way, people do tell me that all the time, that I am one of the great teachers. They tell me that on my hit show The Apprentice, they tell me that in life.

But Smaug, if he learned anything, he didn’t learn enough. He turned out to be a terrible investor, a real dummy, just sat on his gold. He literally sat on it! No deals, no moves. I said Smaug, you dummy, you gotta be out there making deals, negotiating, sitting down at the table, incinerating people with fire. You’re not going to make any money sitting there like a big lazy dumb rock! You’ll be small potatoes forever! But he didn’t listen and he stayed in that backwater and he got so lazy, he was such a slow moving target – I mean, come on, an illiterate redneck takes one shot at you and boom, done, gone, dead. At a Trump property, we are always on the move, we are cutting deals, the best deals, and we use gold the way it was meant to be used, on fountains, escalators, walls – all the best, and very classy, people say.

​http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/27/donald-trump-let-me-tell-you-about-smaug/

 

[NUance]

 

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

Using this logic, can I have my warning point removed?

 

 

No, because we hate the sin that you committed. Whatever it was.

 

 

 

(Also, we know you like it because it makes you feel like a bad boy. lol)

[knapplc]

http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/27/donald-trump-let-me-tell-you-about-smaug/[/size]

And how do you lose to a Balrog?

Ummm... hellOOOOOOOOO! Gandalf didn't lose to the Balrog, he cast him from the pinnacle of Zirak-Zigil, and he smote the mountain in his ruin.

 

And this man wants to be president? <scoffs>

[BigRedBuster]

Wow....just had a moment where I thought I was in a Big Bang Theory episode.

[Saunders]

 

http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/27/donald-trump-let-me-tell-you-about-smaug/[/size]

And how do you lose to a Balrog?

Ummm... hellOOOOOOOOO! Gandalf didn't lose to the Balrog, he cast him from the pinnacle of Zirak-Zigil, and he smote the mountain in his ruin.

 

And this man wants to be president? <scoffs>

 

I'm feeling the need for a LOTR marathon. Haven't watched all the EE's since before the first Hobbit.

[TGHusker]

These are valid points. I concede the Catholic thing, and the "bad look" thing.

 

But let's be real. Donald Trump is acting tremendously un-Christian. In this case, is it really a bad look? Is the Pope really not enough of an authority to say he's being un-Christian?

 

If so, why?

 

I'll say it. I had 40 years of Church teaching, over a decade of Church/Christian leadership. Donald Trump is being un-Christian. Theologically, I know that analysis is sound. I stand by it. Am I going to take less heat than the Pope because I'm Joe Schmoe Nobody and he's the publicest of figures?

 

<shrug>

 

I don't see the issue. The Pope is right (and I'm not even Catholic).

 

I've stood within a few feet of The Donald. Arm's reach. Close enough to see how truly ridiculous his hair is, live and in person. Maybe that makes me qualified.

Can I get your autograph Knapp - or at least rub your head - standing that close to the Donald. I guess you did one better than me - I shook Ben Carson's hand and had him sign a copy of his book. This is when he was in the lead in Iowa - so long ago. I think the book tour actually derailed his chances along wt some things he's said since then that showed he wasn't ready for prime time. ( I got the book free via a radio show drawing and got to be 1st in line at the Barnes and Noble book signing) He is a very nice and soft spoken, likeable guy - but

1. The Pope can make a judgment (not a 'damnation' judgment (that is only for God who sees the heart) but rather discernment) and discern what 'spirit' Trump is of - you and I can make the same type of judgment. I will agree wt the Pope on that one in regards to the sincerity of Trump's faith - look at the fruit, his life. I don't see a lot of Christlikeness humility there.

2. The Pope should not have fallen prey to the reporter's gotcha question that stirred this mess up. It is far outside of his role to insert himself into American politics. It is also the right of any govt (including a city state like the Vatican) to implement its own immigration policy, discuss it, regulate the boarder, and keep it secure. As a husband and father, I would be negligent in my role if I did not secure my own property from intruders wt locked gates, doors, security system. I determine who can enter the home even if they aren't criminals (I don't let any Tom, Dick and Harry to come in the house and raid the frig). In the same way, it is the responsibility of our leaders to secure the country from intruders who might do us harm and to regulate who can come here - even if they will us no harm. This is an American discussion in regards to those issues. Now, the Pope can encourage humane treatment of all who have come into our country as a Christian thing to do. But I wonder how much he encouraged the Mexican govt leaders to open their borders?