SciAm: Fueling terror - how extremists are made

[zoogs]

Fueling Terror: How Extremists Are Made

The psychology of group dynamics goes a long way toward explaining what drives ordinary people toward radicalism

Great article. A couple of selections:

 

 

 

Indeed, there is little evidence that masterminds orchestrate acts of terror, notwithstanding the language the media often use when reporting these events. Which brings us to a second recent shift in our thinking about group dynamics: we have observed that when people do come under the influence of authorities, malevolent or otherwise, they do not usually display slavish obedience but instead find unique, individual ways to further the group's agenda

In February 2015 the ISIS-run magazine Dabiq carried an editorial entitled “The Extinction of the Grayzone.” Its writers bemoaned the fact that many Muslims did not see the West as their enemy and that many refugees fleeing Syria and Afghanistan actually viewed Western countries as lands of opportunity...

As editor David Rothkopf wrote in Foreign Policy after the Paris massacres last November, “overreaction is precisely the wrong response to terrorism. And it's exactly what terrorists want.... It does the work of the terrorists for the terrorists.”

[84HuskerLaw]

Terrorism when committed by Muslims is, despite the remarkable efforts to down play it by so many, simply Muslims being good, devout Muslims. Islam is a 'radical' if you want to use that term, ideology. It is not a 'religion' as such as it is far beyong a regious faith in a deity and the associated principles pertaining to one's own life and behaviors. Islam is truly a way of life and social structure including political organization. Most Muslims, at this point, are not as serious about carrying out their lives in the Islamic way; otherwise we'd have even more terrorism and senseless violence and death. I have heard many describe it as "radical Muslims have hijacked Islam in the name of their evil causes" or something to this effect. This is NOT, in my view, accurate. Islam is a radical ideology wrapped around religious dogma and political and social norms. It is a means to exercise control and power over others by use of extreme violence and force and social and political coercion by twisting religious notions in with political and social rules.

 

As a result, there are almost NO practicing Muslims who are truly zero risk for terror related activites. The majority are not, by their own human nature, necessarily evil or violent at heart and mind, but can be persuaded with the language and other pressures of Islamic living and social structures into aiding, abetting and covering and justifying radical, volence extremes in the name of their Islamic ways. This is a sad fact but one which must be recognized by all western Nations and most surely America. If we fail to acknowledge the basic facts about Islam, Islam will continue to grow as a social and civil cancer which threatens to destroy free and open democracy and society generally.

[BigRedBuster]

Wrong

[Moiraine]

Islam is no more radical than Christianity. You're just choosing to ignore Bible verses about slavery, pillaging, raping and putting people to death.

[JJ Husker]

Islam is no more radical than Christianity. You're just choosing to ignore Bible verses about slavery, pillaging, raping and putting people to death.

I don't believe this is correct. I won't claim Islam is inherently radical but stating that Christianity is radical is ignoring the context, history, and teachings of the New Testement. Yes, in the Old Testament days, there was slavery, stonings, an eye for an eye type stuff, etc. And historically the Church did make some mistakes with the crusades and killing in the name of the religion. But trying to claim those are principles of the Christian faith is just flat out wrong. Sure some whack jobs take it in that direction but they are confused and wrong about what the Christian faith is telling them to do. On the other hand, I am no expert but it would seem that part of Islam, current day as well as historically, is to kill the infidels and to martyr yourself in that endeavor. That would appear to be a correct interpretation of what they teach their followers. Christianity does not propose such things and radical Christians who think it does have been subjected to false teachings or are otherwise operating outside the tenets of the religion. It is not the same thing at all. I would change my mind if you could show me that killing the infidels is not part of what Islam teaches or that real Christian teachings encourage any similar behavior. If it does, I sure haven't been exposed to it.

 

Bible verses about raping and pillaging and slavery have a lot more to do with historical context than they do with bona-fide Christian teachings. Just because those things may have been commonplace 2000+ years ago does not mean they are tenets of the religion.

[Moiraine]

JJ, the Quran needs to be looked at in context too. I'm also not an expert but here's a pretty good article:

 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/does-the-quran-really-adv_b_722114.html

 

Also, I said Islam is no more radical than Christianity. I didn't say Christianity is radical.

[teachercd]

As with anything thing at all...there are radicals...it doesn't matter the topic.

[Bigred_inSD]

Terrorism when committed by Muslims is, despite the remarkable efforts to down play it by so many, simply Muslims being good, devout Muslims. Islam is a 'radical' if you want to use that term, ideology. It is not a 'religion' as such as it is far beyong a regious faith in a deity and the associated principles pertaining to one's own life and behaviors. Islam is truly a way of life and social structure including political organization. Most Muslims, at this point, are not as serious about carrying out their lives in the Islamic way; otherwise we'd have even more terrorism and senseless violence and death. I have heard many describe it as "radical Muslims have hijacked Islam in the name of their evil causes" or something to this effect. This is NOT, in my view, accurate. Islam is a radical ideology wrapped around religious dogma and political and social norms. It is a means to exercise control and power over others by use of extreme violence and force and social and political coercion by twisting religious notions in with political and social rules.

 

As a result, there are almost NO practicing Muslims who are truly zero risk for terror related activites. The majority are not, by their own human nature, necessarily evil or violent at heart and mind, but can be persuaded with the language and other pressures of Islamic living and social structures into aiding, abetting and covering and justifying radical, volence extremes in the name of their Islamic ways. This is a sad fact but one which must be recognized by all western Nations and most surely America. If we fail to acknowledge the basic facts about Islam, Islam will continue to grow as a social and civil cancer which threatens to destroy free and open democracy and society generally.

Mr Trump is that you?

[JJ Husker]

JJ, the Quran needs to be looked at in context too. I'm also not an expert but here's a pretty good article:http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/does-the-quran-really-adv_b_722114.html

Also, I said Islam is no more radical than Christianity. I didn't say Christianity is radical.

Thanks for posting that. I tried my best to put disclaimers on what I was saying because I really do not know for sure what the real message of Islam is as I have not studied it in depth at all. I had heard it stated often that the message of killing the infidels was in the Quran and I had sort if come to accept it as part of their religion. But, like anything, if certain individual passages are taken out of context or applied too broadly, it is easy to become confused with the true message.

 

I do stand by my statement that Christianity does not teach it's followers to do most any of the things that people often claim makes it bad. One short article does not necessarily have me fully convinced that Islam is a completely peaceful religion but I sure will hesitate to claim it proposes doing what members of ISIS or the Taliban seem to do with it. It very well could be that their radical elements simply look at passages out of context much like some radical elements who claim to be Christian do. In that context, what you said is absolutely true.

 

This is probably my biggest frustration with people who want to claim religion or Christianity in particular is bad. The problem is with people not doing what the religion or the Bible is really teaching. Too many people won't acknowledge that important difference and choose to blame the religion for the actions of people who are operating outside the core of the religion. The message of Christianity is all good. However some people, be they average Joes or bad Priests or Popes, give the religion a black eye by mutilating the real message.

[Moiraine]

 

JJ, the Quran needs to be looked at in context too. I'm also not an expert but here's a pretty good article:http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/does-the-quran-really-adv_b_722114.html

Also, I said Islam is no more radical than Christianity. I didn't say Christianity is radical.

Thanks for posting that. I tried my best to put disclaimers on what I was saying because I really do not know for sure what the real message of Islam is as I have not studied it in depth at all. I had heard it stated often that the message of killing the infidels was in the Quran and I had sort if come to accept it as part of their religion. But, like anything, if certain individual passages are taken out of context or applied too broadly, it is easy to become confused with the true message.

 

I do stand by my statement that Christianity does not teach it's followers to do most any of the things that people often claim makes it bad. One short article does not necessarily have me fully convinced that Islam is a completely peaceful religion but I sure will hesitate to claim it proposes doing what members of ISIS or the Taliban seem to do with it. It very well could be that their radical elements simply look at passages out of context much like some radical elements who claim to be Christian do. In that context, what you said is absolutely true.

 

This is probably my biggest frustration with people who want to claim religion or Christianity in particular is bad. The problem is with people not doing what the religion or the Bible is really teaching. Too many people won't acknowledge that important difference and choose to blame the religion for the actions of people who are operating outside the core of the religion. The message of Christianity is all good. However some people, be they average Joes or bad Priests or Popes, give the religion a black eye by mutilating the real message.

 

 

 

I agree with this. Religion isn't the problem. Certain followers of religion are the problem. They'd do the same horrible things in the name of something else if it wasn't for religion.

[funhusker]

 

JJ, the Quran needs to be looked at in context too. I'm also not an expert but here's a pretty good article:http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/does-the-quran-really-adv_b_722114.html

Also, I said Islam is no more radical than Christianity. I didn't say Christianity is radical.

Thanks for posting that. I tried my best to put disclaimers on what I was saying because I really do not know for sure what the real message of Christianity is as I have not studied it in depth at all. I had heard it stated often that the message of killing the adulterers was in the Bible and I had sort if come to accept it as part of their religion. But, like anything, if certain individual passages are taken out of context or applied too broadly, it is easy to become confused with the true message.

 

I do stand by my statement that Islam does not teach it's followers to do most any of the things that people often claim makes it bad. One short article does not necessarily have me fully convinced that Christianity is a completely peaceful religion but I sure will hesitate to claim it proposes doing what members of Branch Davidian or the National Liberation Front of Tipura seem to do with it. It very well could be that their radical elements simply look at passages out of context much like some radical elements who claim to be Islam do. In that context, what you said is absolutely true.

 

This is probably my biggest frustration with people who want to claim religion or Islam in particular is bad. The problem is with people not doing what the religion or the Koran is really teaching. Too many people won't acknowledge that important difference and choose to blame the religion for the actions of people who are operating outside the core of the religion. The message of Islam is all good. However some people, be they average Joes or bad Imams or radical Muslims, give the religion a black eye by mutilating the real message.

 

Please don't take offense to me editing your post, JJ. You made a point very well, and I wanted to see what it looked like if everyone's perspective was changed a little.

 

In the words of the famous Jake Brigance : "Now, imagine that girl was white..."

[ZRod]

JJ, the Quran needs to be looked at in context too. I'm also not an expert but here's a pretty good article:http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/does-the-quran-really-adv_b_722114.html

Also, I said Islam is no more radical than Christianity. I didn't say Christianity is radical.

Excellent, excellent find! As with anything religious texts/teachings need context. I tried to begin reading the Quran, but haven't had the time to see it through. The versus I did get through had no mention of violence. It's also important to remember that this isn't the only text relevant to the religion. Also; depending on which sect you are, you may choose to diregard one or the other texts.

[JJ Husker]

 

 

JJ, the Quran needs to be looked at in context too. I'm also not an expert but here's a pretty good article:http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/does-the-quran-really-adv_b_722114.html

Also, I said Islam is no more radical than Christianity. I didn't say Christianity is radical.

Thanks for posting that. I tried my best to put disclaimers on what I was saying because I really do not know for sure what the real message of Christianity is as I have not studied it in depth at all. I had heard it stated often that the message of killing the adulterers was in the Bible and I had sort if come to accept it as part of their religion. But, like anything, if certain individual passages are taken out of context or applied too broadly, it is easy to become confused with the true message.

 

I do stand by my statement that Islam does not teach it's followers to do most any of the things that people often claim makes it bad. One short article does not necessarily have me fully convinced that Christianity is a completely peaceful religion but I sure will hesitate to claim it proposes doing what members of Branch Davidian or the National Liberation Front of Tipura seem to do with it. It very well could be that their radical elements simply look at passages out of context much like some radical elements who claim to be Islam do. In that context, what you said is absolutely true.

 

This is probably my biggest frustration with people who want to claim religion or Islam in particular is bad. The problem is with people not doing what the religion or the Koran is really teaching. Too many people won't acknowledge that important difference and choose to blame the religion for the actions of people who are operating outside the core of the religion. The message of Islam is all good. However some people, be they average Joes or bad Imams or radical Muslims, give the religion a black eye by mutilating the real message.

 

Please don't take offense to me editing your post, JJ. You made a point very well, and I wanted to see what it looked like if everyone's perspective was changed a little.

 

In the words of the famous Jake Brigance : "Now, imagine that girl was white..."

 

No problem. However, I do require that you plus 1 my post if you are going to take such liberties with it.

 

I would also like to point out that the New Testament portion of the Bible established a new covenant so a whole bunch of that Old Testament stuff that people like to quote as being in the Christian Bible (i.e. killing adulterers) really should not be applied as part of any Christian faith or teaching. IMO lots of that stuff goes out the window as soon as a person accepts Jesus Christ as their savior and is only then really classified as a Christian. Jesus changed lots of things that are contained in Old Testament writings.

[BigRedBuster]

Something about a story where Jesus walked upon a woman about to be stoned for committing adultery and he said..."He who has not sinned may cast the first stone"...... comes to mind.

[funhusker]

+1'd before you requested, JJ

 

And I agree with what your saying about the New Testament. But a person unfamiliar to the Bible and Christianity, just browsing the pages, wouldn't be aware.