The General Election

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

I still haven't figured out how illegals don't pay taxes or when Obama apologized in such a horrible and embarrassing way.

Just a guess here but don't you think a lot of them do manual labor jobs and get paid in cash...under the table? In which case their wages are not being taxed? I suppose that is one way.

 

Don't you think the IRS would ask questions about a construction company that builds 100 houses a year with only one framer? Or the orange groves that are harvested by one farmer? Or the meat packing plant that produces millions of pounds of beef with a couple butchers? Yes, there are some illegals that work for cash; there are also a lot of born'n'bred Muricans that also work for cash to avoid taxes.

 

edit: I'm only using these jobs since you mentioned manual labor. There are also illegal immigrants (from many different nations, not just Central and South American countries) working in retail, food service, travel and tourism, office jobs, and just about any other job/careers you can think of. Not many of these positions are set up to pay in cash.

 

I think it depends...You got a lawn care company and you have 12 dudes working for you and 4 of them are illegal. I don't think questions would get asked.

 

In college I worked lawn care...we were paid in cash under the table. There were like 6 of us I think, maybe 5, that worked for the guy. I think that is pretty common

 

I guess my point is that is one way that they (myself included back then) don't pay taxes.

 

I'm not naive enough to deny that doesn't happen. However, the little googling I have done on this today has shown me that there are roughly 11.1 million illegals that work in a place that takes payroll taxes out of their checks. Obviously there are probably more illegals than that in the US. However, some of those would be children, elderly or spouses that don't work.

 

I'm guessing the number that get paid under the table and don't pay payroll taxes are a relatively small percentage of the working illegal immigrants. And....even those are going to pay sales tax....etc.

 

Funny thing is.....I know white documented Americans that get paid under the table so they don't have to pay taxes too. I guess that's OK though.

[Red Five]

 

I still haven't figured out how illegals don't pay taxes or when Obama apologized in such a horrible and embarrassing way.

Just a guess here but don't you think a lot of them do manual labor jobs and get paid in cash...under the table? In which case their wages are not being taxed? I suppose that is one way.

 

There are plenty of 'Muricans that do that as well, not just illegals.

 

Hell in high school my neighbor ran a warehouse for an office supply store. Whenever big shipments were coming in or needed to be loaded, he would ask me if to round up a couple friends and we'd show up at the warehouse, move some big office furniture on/off a truck, and get $80 at the end of the day. We never filled out I-9s or were taxed on it.

[AFhusker]

 

 

 

 

MSNBC was disgusting in not even acknowledging memorial day. They spent half the day talking about a stupid Gorilla in Chicago instead of honoring those who have died for this country.

I've never watched MSNBC so I have no proof that this allegation is false. But there's zero chance a major news outlet didn't "even acknowledge Memorial Day."

 

Where does stuff like this come from? Who thinks this is true?

 

Unless someone watched literally every minute of MSNBC then there's no way to make that statement factually.

 

Plus, I don't mean to be offensive to any veterans, current military members, etc., but what do people expect? Wall to wall coverage? It's an important holiday but it doesn't keep eye balls. Politics, breaking news, the Cincinnati Zoo incident... that's what keeps people watching TV.

 

It's called using the internet looking at MSNBC's website and pulling up stories about it. Not to mention flipping between channels since it was raining like a MF'er out here on that day and we couldn't do squat for it. The closest thing that they came to was Obama's speech at Arlington National Cemetery.

 

http://www.msnbc.com/search/memorial%20day?f[0]=bundle%3Atheplatform_video

 

The first part of your question about what people expect is quite alarming to say the least. Do you not know what Memorial Day is about? Apparently you don't so let me tell you It is about honoring all of the thousands of brave people who made the ultimate sacrifice for people to have the freedoms that they enjoy today. For those of us that are still serving or have served, we don't expect anything for doing our jobs, it's about honoring those who didn't come back. It isn't just a day off so people to only talk about a stupid gorilla (for example) and trying to act like it's life is as valuable as a human beings. That is what is concerning and dangerous about the left as they care more about taking flags off of fire trucks, stopping the pledge of allegiance, not allowing people to say "so help me God in schools" even though it doesn't say which god, you could be saying it to the spaghetti monster if that is your God. But will legislate that mentally ill people get to pick which bathroom they want to use. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

As bad as the Republican Party is messed up (and it is very messed up) the Democratic Party is messed up even worse.

 

Again, unless you physically watched an entire day's worth of MSNBC coverage, either online or on TV, your statement is unfounded. "Flipping through channels" and "pulling up stories" is like saying you read a book by flipping through chapters and occasionally reading some excerpts.

 

I also just did a google search and found four different stories, including two video tributes, they aired over Memorial Day weekend.

 

Lastly, I'm incredibly offended by your asinine, holier-than-thou assumption about what I do and don't know about Memorial Day. You know nothing about me, my military service or my family's military service. I just have a different perspective than you. I spent 3 hours Monday with local groups laying flags on fallen soldier memorials and unnamed graves, not trolling through MSNBC's website. But, apparently I don't know anything about the day.

 

I answered your question, it isn't my fault that you got thin skinned feelings hurt. Don't ask questions that you don't want to hear the answer too.

[AFhusker]

 

 

I still haven't figured out how illegals don't pay taxes or when Obama apologized in such a horrible and embarrassing way.

Just a guess here but don't you think a lot of them do manual labor jobs and get paid in cash...under the table? In which case their wages are not being taxed? I suppose that is one way.

 

There are plenty of 'Muricans that do that as well, not just illegals.

 

Hell in high school my neighbor ran a warehouse for an office supply store. Whenever big shipments were coming in or needed to be loaded, he would ask me if to round up a couple friends and we'd show up at the warehouse, move some big office furniture on/off a truck, and get $80 at the end of the day. We never filled out I-9s or were taxed on it.

 

Are you really comparing earning $80.00 to illegals having full time jobs? You do know that there is a minimum amount of money that you have to make to before you are mandated to be taxed on it...right?

[AFhusker]

 

 

 

 

I still haven't figured out how illegals don't pay taxes or when Obama apologized in such a horrible and embarrassing way.

Just a guess here but don't you think a lot of them do manual labor jobs and get paid in cash...under the table? In which case their wages are not being taxed? I suppose that is one way.

 

Don't you think the IRS would ask questions about a construction company that builds 100 houses a year with only one framer? Or the orange groves that are harvested by one farmer? Or the meat packing plant that produces millions of pounds of beef with a couple butchers? Yes, there are some illegals that work for cash; there are also a lot of born'n'bred Muricans that also work for cash to avoid taxes.

 

edit: I'm only using these jobs since you mentioned manual labor. There are also illegal immigrants (from many different nations, not just Central and South American countries) working in retail, food service, travel and tourism, office jobs, and just about any other job/careers you can think of. Not many of these positions are set up to pay in cash.

 

I think it depends...You got a lawn care company and you have 12 dudes working for you and 4 of them are illegal. I don't think questions would get asked.

 

In college I worked lawn care...we were paid in cash under the table. There were like 6 of us I think, maybe 5, that worked for the guy. I think that is pretty common

 

I guess my point is that is one way that they (myself included back then) don't pay taxes.

 

How do they avoid sales tax?

 

Two totally different taxes. Sales tax has nothing to do with income tax.

[AFhusker]

 

True of false...if this thread keeps going the way it is there will be people that will start ranking Obama as the best President in the history of America.

 

 

Lol...literally, LOL. I read an editorial today suggesting that Obama is benefiting from Trump vs Hillary, but I actually think its a direct effect of his 8 years of failure. Hillary is essentially carrying the torch of the Obama years, and Dems are not wanting to fully embrace that torch and are split with Bernie. Meanwhile, Trump is the anti-Obama in many ways and is pulling in many blue collar Dems who are fed up with Obama and government in general. Put another way, had Obama been successful in his 2008 promise to be a transformational candidate to bring the country together, I don't believe you would be seeing Trump win the GOP nomination in 2016.

 

Very well said. But you also have to add in the complete joke that the Republican Party has become. When Sara Palin still has a influence in the party, then that says enough about the state of the party.

[Saunders]

 

 

 

I struggle to understand how people defend the tenure of Obama as well. Speaking of disaster in foreign relations...

Obama hasn't been a "disaster" at all. Most of the world would tell you that Obama has done a pretty good job with foreign relations. It's only in America where Obama's political enemies live that people would consider him a "disaster." Of course, these are the same people that brought us the Birthers, the Mom Jeans and "Obama is a Muslim."

 

So, Hillary?

 

If you're saying Hillary started the birther movement or the mom jeans nonsense, that's not true.

 

 

EDIT

 

This was the first I'd heard about this so I looked it up. Here's Politifact's take on Hillary's involvement in the Birther thing. I didn't bother looking for "mom jeans" because it's such a stupid allegation.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/23/donald-trump/hillary-clinton-obama-birther-fact-check/

 

Basically, they're saying that Democrats supporting Clinton, but not Clinton herself, likely started the birther movement. Of course, the Republicans ran with that ball for years after, but it apparently started during the 2008 campaign.

 

I was joking. I had no idea "mom jeans" was even a thing.

[HuskerNation1]

 

 

True of false...if this thread keeps going the way it is there will be people that will start ranking Obama as the best President in the history of America.

 

 

Lol...literally, LOL. I read an editorial today suggesting that Obama is benefiting from Trump vs Hillary, but I actually think its a direct effect of his 8 years of failure. Hillary is essentially carrying the torch of the Obama years, and Dems are not wanting to fully embrace that torch and are split with Bernie. Meanwhile, Trump is the anti-Obama in many ways and is pulling in many blue collar Dems who are fed up with Obama and government in general. Put another way, had Obama been successful in his 2008 promise to be a transformational candidate to bring the country together, I don't believe you would be seeing Trump win the GOP nomination in 2016.

 

Very well said. But you also have to add in the complete joke that the Republican Party has become. When Sara Palin still has a influence in the party, then that says enough about the state of the party.

 

 

Both parties have their problems, and Palin speaks to the hard line right wingers just as Bernie does for left-wingers. Both are crazy and delusional. Fortunately Sarah has brightened up a bit when she said she realizes she will be a liability for Trump (not that I think Trump would really ever consider her anyway).

[AFhusker]

We have been a bully towards many nations, and it's a great idea to approach our fellow nations with a mixture of strength and humility.

 

America has made dozens of major blunders across the world over the past century, blunders that are costing America trillions of dollars to fix, at the expense of the lives of American soldiers. We're the bull in a China shop when it comes to foreign relations. There are those Americans who think the US should be able to run roughshod over every other nation, dictate terms on everything, and basically tell everyone how to live their lives. This is a disastrous foreign relations attitude and is exactly the kind of thing Bush did, Reagan did, and exactly the kind of behavior that sows hatred toward you across the globe. American interests can be served better by working with foreign nations, not dictating to them. We are not the world's boss. We do not have the right to bomb with impunity or manipulate other nations' elections.

 

Those are the Americans who think Obama's very correct statements about American culpability (the laughably named "apology tours") should never have happened. But in a world where America will need all the good relations it can get with a growing, global China on the horizon, we simply cannot afford to continue gunboat diplomacy, no matter how much it puffs up the egos of some Americans.

 

Obama hasn't been a pushover, and his "apologies" have been well-thought-out words of reparations for American harms. It hurts some people to think America hasn't always been right in their dealings with other countries. But those hurt feelings can't stand in the way of global progress.

I totally agree with everything that you said until you just only blamed Regan and Bush for dictating terms for other countries. You need to be fair and list the Libya and Syria messes under Hillary's term as SoS. She is even trying to push the blame on Obama on those failures in a recent Democratic debate with Sanders. We as a country had gotten into other countries politics no matter who is leading ours for better or (usually) worse.

 

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/hillary-clinton-blames-obama-for-libya-syria-mess-221995

 

Our issues are not (officially) with the governments in the middles east other than Iran. IMO the Saudi government is the we should have been after from the beginning, but we make too much money from them so neither party will go down that lane. I don't think you want to talk about how the administration lied about how good that deal was. Our issues are with the radicals withing the Islamic Religion who can't be bargained with. That is unless you think we could have had meaningful relations with Bin Laden or any of his replacements.

 

As for the apology tours, I think they were overblown. He never really apologized, he danced around it but never apologized. Although I am really hoping that you are not talking about bombing Japan in WWII as it was either that or losing thousands of more American lives trying to invade Japan. They were not going to quit so something had to be done.

 

Obama has been a pushover. Once again, why are all of our enemies taunting us? They know that we won't do anything about it. Even when he has "drawn lines in the sand" that line gets crossed and we don't do anything. I agree that we need to be more diplomatic, but if we are going to draw lines in the sand, we need to act if it isn't respected.

[AFhusker]

 

 

 

 

And this is the guy who campaigned against someone by calling them "Lying Ted" and people lapped it up.....

 

 

And people are calling Hillary a bad candidate.....

 

They both are horrible candidates. Trump is a blowhard that embellishes on issues that he has no idea what he is talking about then forgets what he says. So it isn't hard to catch him in a lie.

 

Clinton is a corrupt career politician that believes that laws don't pertain to her. She has so many things that she has done over the years that it isn't hard to catch her in lies during her many scandals either.

 

That is why both of them are not likeable. Both of them are crap sandwiches that nobody wants to take a bite out of.

[teachercd]

 

 

 

 

I still haven't figured out how illegals don't pay taxes or when Obama apologized in such a horrible and embarrassing way.

Just a guess here but don't you think a lot of them do manual labor jobs and get paid in cash...under the table? In which case their wages are not being taxed? I suppose that is one way.

 

Don't you think the IRS would ask questions about a construction company that builds 100 houses a year with only one framer? Or the orange groves that are harvested by one farmer? Or the meat packing plant that produces millions of pounds of beef with a couple butchers? Yes, there are some illegals that work for cash; there are also a lot of born'n'bred Muricans that also work for cash to avoid taxes.

 

edit: I'm only using these jobs since you mentioned manual labor. There are also illegal immigrants (from many different nations, not just Central and South American countries) working in retail, food service, travel and tourism, office jobs, and just about any other job/careers you can think of. Not many of these positions are set up to pay in cash.

 

I think it depends...You got a lawn care company and you have 12 dudes working for you and 4 of them are illegal. I don't think questions would get asked.

 

In college I worked lawn care...we were paid in cash under the table. There were like 6 of us I think, maybe 5, that worked for the guy. I think that is pretty common

 

I guess my point is that is one way that they (myself included back then) don't pay taxes.

 

I'm not naive enough to deny that doesn't happen. However, the little googling I have done on this today has shown me that there are roughly 11.1 million illegals that work in a place that takes payroll taxes out of their checks. Obviously there are probably more illegals than that in the US. However, some of those would be children, elderly or spouses that don't work.

 

I'm guessing the number that get paid under the table and don't pay payroll taxes are a relatively small percentage of the working illegal immigrants. And....even those are going to pay sales tax....etc.

 

Funny thing is.....I know white documented Americans that get paid under the table so they don't have to pay taxes too. I guess that's OK though.

 

I know lots of people that get paid under the table, I have myself. I was just answering your question that you asked.

 

I don't know why you think it is okay for white documented workers to get paid under that table, but seemed like an odd statement.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

I still haven't figured out how illegals don't pay taxes or when Obama apologized in such a horrible and embarrassing way.

Just a guess here but don't you think a lot of them do manual labor jobs and get paid in cash...under the table? In which case their wages are not being taxed? I suppose that is one way.

 

Don't you think the IRS would ask questions about a construction company that builds 100 houses a year with only one framer? Or the orange groves that are harvested by one farmer? Or the meat packing plant that produces millions of pounds of beef with a couple butchers? Yes, there are some illegals that work for cash; there are also a lot of born'n'bred Muricans that also work for cash to avoid taxes.

 

edit: I'm only using these jobs since you mentioned manual labor. There are also illegal immigrants (from many different nations, not just Central and South American countries) working in retail, food service, travel and tourism, office jobs, and just about any other job/careers you can think of. Not many of these positions are set up to pay in cash.

 

I think it depends...You got a lawn care company and you have 12 dudes working for you and 4 of them are illegal. I don't think questions would get asked.

 

In college I worked lawn care...we were paid in cash under the table. There were like 6 of us I think, maybe 5, that worked for the guy. I think that is pretty common

 

I guess my point is that is one way that they (myself included back then) don't pay taxes.

 

I'm not naive enough to deny that doesn't happen. However, the little googling I have done on this today has shown me that there are roughly 11.1 million illegals that work in a place that takes payroll taxes out of their checks. Obviously there are probably more illegals than that in the US. However, some of those would be children, elderly or spouses that don't work.

 

I'm guessing the number that get paid under the table and don't pay payroll taxes are a relatively small percentage of the working illegal immigrants. And....even those are going to pay sales tax....etc.

 

Funny thing is.....I know white documented Americans that get paid under the table so they don't have to pay taxes too. I guess that's OK though.

 

I know lots of people that get paid under the table, I have myself. I was just answering your question that you asked.

 

I don't know why you think it is okay for white documented workers to get paid under that table, but seemed like an odd statement.

 

It was a sarcastic statement.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

And this is the guy who campaigned against someone by calling them "Lying Ted" and people lapped it up.....

 

 

And people are calling Hillary a bad candidate.....

 

They both are horrible candidates. Trump is a blowhard that embellishes on issues that he has no idea what he is talking about then forgets what he says. So it isn't hard to catch him in a lie.

 

Clinton is a corrupt career politician that believes that laws don't pertain to her. She has so many things that she has done over the years that it isn't hard to catch her in lies during her many scandals either.

 

That is why both of them are not likeable. Both of them are crap sandwiches that nobody wants to take a bite out of.

 

That I can agree with. Problem is, there seem to be some people who want to take a bite out of the crap sandwiches.

[knapplc]

 

We have been a bully towards many nations, and it's a great idea to approach our fellow nations with a mixture of strength and humility.

 

America has made dozens of major blunders across the world over the past century, blunders that are costing America trillions of dollars to fix, at the expense of the lives of American soldiers. We're the bull in a China shop when it comes to foreign relations. There are those Americans who think the US should be able to run roughshod over every other nation, dictate terms on everything, and basically tell everyone how to live their lives. This is a disastrous foreign relations attitude and is exactly the kind of thing Bush did, Reagan did, and exactly the kind of behavior that sows hatred toward you across the globe. American interests can be served better by working with foreign nations, not dictating to them. We are not the world's boss. We do not have the right to bomb with impunity or manipulate other nations' elections.

 

Those are the Americans who think Obama's very correct statements about American culpability (the laughably named "apology tours") should never have happened. But in a world where America will need all the good relations it can get with a growing, global China on the horizon, we simply cannot afford to continue gunboat diplomacy, no matter how much it puffs up the egos of some Americans.

 

Obama hasn't been a pushover, and his "apologies" have been well-thought-out words of reparations for American harms. It hurts some people to think America hasn't always been right in their dealings with other countries. But those hurt feelings can't stand in the way of global progress.

I totally agree with everything that you said until you just only blamed Regan and Bush for dictating terms for other countries. You need to be fair and list the Libya and Syria messes under Hillary's term as SoS. She is even trying to push the blame on Obama on those failures in a recent Democratic debate with Sanders. We as a country had gotten into other countries politics no matter who is leading ours for better or (usually) worse.

 

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/hillary-clinton-blames-obama-for-libya-syria-mess-221995

 

Our issues are not (officially) with the governments in the middles east other than Iran. IMO the Saudi government is the we should have been after from the beginning, but we make too much money from them so neither party will go down that lane. I don't think you want to talk about how the administration lied about how good that deal was. Our issues are with the radicals withing the Islamic Religion who can't be bargained with. That is unless you think we could have had meaningful relations with Bin Laden or any of his replacements.

 

As for the apology tours, I think they were overblown. He never really apologized, he danced around it but never apologized. Although I am really hoping that you are not talking about bombing Japan in WWII as it was either that or losing thousands of more American lives trying to invade Japan. They were not going to quit so something had to be done.

 

Obama has been a pushover. Once again, why are all of our enemies taunting us? They know that we won't do anything about it. Even when he has "drawn lines in the sand" that line gets crossed and we don't do anything. I agree that we need to be more diplomatic, but if we are going to draw lines in the sand, we need to act if it isn't respected.

 

 

I think we're mostly on the same page, too. I think you don't like Obama, and that's cool, he's not for everyone. He's done plenty that I don't like, and I only voted for him because he was the best available candidate.

 

I only listed Bush & Reagan because they were two of the most egregious. Definitely all presidents in my lifetime (with possibly the exception of Carter & Ford, who didn't do much of much) are responsible for America's bumbled foreign policies. Obama has done a better job of not entangling us in foreign problems, although with our role as a world leader it's hard to stay hands-off.

 

I agree with you about the Saudis. They're bad people, and we should not be allies with them. I am definitely NOT talking about bombing Japan. They got what was coming to them, and horrific as the A-Bomb is, I agree with using it in that circumstance. Here's hoping nobody ever has to use it again.

 

Obama has not been a pushover, no matter how you slice it. I couldn't care less if Putin or Kim Jong Un have bad words to say about America. Both are penned up in their countries, Putin especially as a direct result of Obama's policies. Obama has done a great job of limiting Russia & Putin without starting a war. That's brilliant statesmanship, not being a "pushover."

 

Regarding the "line in the sand," I agree that specific phrase was dumb. They crossed the line, and we weren't going to go to war over it. But are you saying we should have? Because no American life is worth going to war over because our ego got bruised. Syria has been largely contained, has not spread into a regional conflict, and isn't our war. Obama has handled it pretty well, if not perfectly.

[Red Five]

I think this might be how you attack Trump. Use Trump's own words to show how ridiculous he is. And he is so feeble that it totally gets under his skin and puts him "on tilt", to borrow a poker term.

 

From Hillary last night:

 

This is a man who said that more countries should have nuclear weapons, including Saudi Arabia.

This is someone who has threatened to abandon our allies in NATO – the countries that work with us to root out terrorists abroad before they strike us at home.

He believes we can treat the U.S. economy like one of his casinos and default on our debts to the rest of the world, which would cause an economic catastrophe far worse than anything we experienced in 2008.

[Applause]

He has said that he would order our military to carry out torture and the murder of civilians who are related to suspected terrorists – even though those are war crimes.

He says he doesn’t have to listen to our generals or our admirals, our ambassadors and other high officials, because he has – quote – “a very good brain.”

[Laughter]

He also said, “I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me.” You know what? I don’t believe him.

[Applause]

He says climate change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, and he has the gall to say that prisoners of war like John McCain aren’t heroes.

Exactly.

He praises dictators like Vladimir Putin and picks fights with our friends – including the British prime minister, the mayor of London, the German chancellor, the president of Mexico and the Pope.

[Applause]

He says he has foreign policy experience because he ran the Miss Universe pageant in Russia.

And to top it off, he believes America is weak. An embarrassment. He called our military a disaster. He said we are – and I quote – a “third-world country.” And he’s been saying things like that for decades...

Compare that with what Trump wants to do. His economic plans would add more than $30 trillion – that’s trillion with a “t” – $30 trillion to our national debt over the next 20 years. He has no ideas on education. No ideas on innovation. He has a lot of ideas about who to blame, but no clue about what to do...

And it’s no small thing when he suggests that America should withdraw our military support for Japan, encourage them to get nuclear weapons, and said this about a war between Japan and North Korea – and I quote – “If they do, they do. Good luck, enjoy yourself, folks.”...

But it doesn’t work like that in world affairs. Just like being interviewed on the same episode of “60 Minutes” as Putin was, is not the same thing as actually dealing with Putin....

So the stakes in global statecraft are infinitely higher and more complex than in the world of luxury hotels. We all know the tools Donald Trump brings to the table – bragging, mocking, composing nasty tweets – I’m willing to bet he’s writing a few right now.

 

And I have to say, I don’t understand Donald’s bizarre fascination with dictators and strongmen who have no love for America. He praised China for the Tiananmen Square massacre; he said it showed strength. He said, “You’ve got to give Kim Jong Un credit” for taking over North Korea – something he did by murdering everyone he saw as a threat, including his own uncle, which Donald described gleefully, like he was recapping an action movie. And he said if he were grading Vladimir Putin as a leader, he’d give him an A.

Now, I’ll leave it to the psychiatrists to explain his affection for tyrants.