The Obama Legacy

[Landlord]

 

 

He's at 60%. That means there has to be some conservatives who are giving him a positive approval rating.

 

 

No it doesn't. Not necessarily, at least. 40% of our country identifies as independent, 31% democrat, and 29% republican. Doesn't really say much towards whether 50+% of our country is conservative.

 

I'm not saying Independent, Democrat or Republican. I'm saying Liberal or Conservative. There is a difference.

 

 

 

 

Right, I understand that, which is why I added the last sentence, but I haven't seen any polls or studies that show the conservative/liberal divide is 50/50. Ignoring the fact that these are nebulous terms to begin with, Gallup reports that only 38% of Americans identify as conservative.

[HuskerNation1]

That article appears to be from a rather biased source. It's too glowing about Obama, I'll agree.

 

Still, for those hoping his legacy is bad... it's bad news.

 

Yes, I saw a split on this poll which showed an oversampling of Dems by like 8 or 10 points. Most of the polls I have seen the past month have Obama's approval at around 50% which is not really surprising given the fact that he is a lame duck and has been out of the news, and that we have 2 candidates with such high negatives that it makes him look better. The one time in recent weeks he has been in the news when it was apparent we paid ransom to Iran, his approval rating immediately dropped by 5 to 7 points.

[TGHusker]

That article appears to be from a rather biased source. It's too glowing about Obama, I'll agree.

 

Still, for those hoping his legacy is bad... it's bad news.

Knapp, seems like we were talking about biased sources on other threads recently (I was called out for providing such a source ) - It appears it is difficult to get away from the biases. The 8 years of an 'outstanding president' was my first clue that the article may be 'slightly biased'. "Obama years have been devoid of political scandals" No scandal?? - a lot of smoke it seems - ask those conservative non-profits targeted by the IRS if there was no scandal, or his secretary of state's email fiasco, just to name a couple situations. We don't need to again on those stories. Yes, Obama, himself, may be clean, but his admin has been far from transparent or clean. Granted it is much improved over Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, and even GWB and his reasons for going into Iraq. In comparison to GWB, maybe a number of people will come away feeling the administration has been 'outstanding' but that is a low bar for comparison.

[HuskerNation1]

 

That article appears to be from a rather biased source. It's too glowing about Obama, I'll agree.

 

Still, for those hoping his legacy is bad... it's bad news.

Knapp, seems like we were talking about biased sources on other threads recently (I was called out for providing such a source ) - It appears it is difficult to get away from the biases. The 8 years of an 'outstanding president' was my first clue that the article may be 'slightly biased'. "Obama years have been devoid of political scandals" No scandal?? - a lot of smoke it seems - ask those conservative non-profits targeted by the IRS if there was no scandal, or his secretary of state's email fiasco, just to name a couple situations. We don't need to again on those stories. Yes, Obama, himself, may be clean, but his admin has been far from transparent or clean. Granted it is much improved over Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, and even GWB and his reasons for going into Iraq. In comparison to GWB, maybe a number of people will come away feeling the administration has been 'outstanding' but that is a low bar for comparison.

 

 

The intent of this thread was to focus on the overall legacy of Obama, not just on the scandals. The biggest domestic legacy item for Obama is Obamacare, which appears to be hanging on by a thread as enrollments are not where they need to be, and the costs are rising more than expected. The biggest foreign policy legacy item is supposed to be his Iran deal, but just yesterday a member of his staff admitted that what they were hoping to get out of the Iran deal is not the reality we are seeing today.

 

As for scandals, I am on board that Obama's tenure has been better than Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon, but there is no way you can lump GWB in there. Now some may not agree with some of his policy decisions related to Iraq, or his response to Katrina, but the most valid instance of "corruption" was Halliburton involving a member of Cheney's staff. Let's not forget some of these items tied to Obama:

 

1. IRS scandal where they were targeting Conservatives

2. Fast and Furious

3. Solyndra

4. Benghazi

5. Hillary's many issues including her private server as well as the overlap in connections between the State Department and the Clinton Foundation

 

We can't forget that Obama picked Hillary to be his SOS, just as Bush picked Cheney (who picked Scooter Libby).

[knapplc]

I agree there is no way you can "lump GWB in there." These scandals are all tied to or directly involved with Bush II:

 

Purging of the 57,000 voters from Florida's rolls by Jeb

The Supreme Court halting the Florida recount on an inapplicable provision and THEN stipulating this ruling can't be used on any other election

Contrived energy shortages in California caused in part by Enron - the same Enron whose private jet Bush's lawyers used to travel to Florida for the recount scandal

Censoring scientific reports that disagree with the Bush Administration's views, and shutting down advisory committees that disagree or stacking them with Bush appointees

His close ties to the Saudi government and his censorship of any mention of their responsibility in the 9/11 attacks

Helping create the Iraqi insurgency by disbanding the 250K man Iraqi army against the advice of General Garner

Dick Cheney's cronies in Halliburton awarded billions of dollars in contracts in Iraq

Valerie Plame's outing as a secret agent by the Bush White House

Scooter Libby getting set free by Bush after outing Plame

Putting (his brother) Neil Bush's education materials in schools through No Child Left Behind

Allowing the Taliban to solidify their base in Afghanistan while he screws around in Iraq

Let's not forget - invading Iraq

 

 

There are dozens and dozens more. Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld - these are some of the most corrupt political figures in the past 50 years. Their records are directly tied to Bush, and the stuff they've done makes Hillary look like a beginner in political scheming.

 

So no, there is no way you can "lump GWB in there."

 

George W. Bush was WAY worse.

[HuskerNation1]

I agree there is no way you can "lump GWB in there." These scandals are all tied to or directly involved with Bush II:

 

Purging of the 57,000 voters from Florida's rolls by Jeb

The Supreme Court halting the Florida recount on an inapplicable provision and THEN stipulating this ruling can't be used on any other election

Contrived energy shortages in California caused in part by Enron - the same Enron whose private jet Bush's lawyers used to travel to Florida for the recount scandal

Censoring scientific reports that disagree with the Bush Administration's views, and shutting down advisory committees that disagree or stacking them with Bush appointees

His close ties to the Saudi government and his censorship of any mention of their responsibility in the 9/11 attacks

Helping create the Iraqi insurgency by disbanding the 250K man Iraqi army against the advice of General Garner

Dick Cheney's cronies in Halliburton awarded billions of dollars in contracts in Iraq

Valerie Plame's outing as a secret agent by the Bush White House

Scooter Libby getting set free by Bush after outing Plame

Putting (his brother) Neil Bush's education materials in schools through No Child Left Behind

Allowing the Taliban to solidify their base in Afghanistan while he screws around in Iraq

Let's not forget - invading Iraq

 

 

There are dozens and dozens more. Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld - these are some of the most corrupt political figures in the past 50 years. Their records are directly tied to Bush, and the stuff they've done makes Hillary look like a beginner in political scheming.

 

So no, there is no way you can "lump GWB in there."

 

George W. Bush was WAY worse.

 

Lol...I can offer a whole littany of examples for Obama too, but I think most in the public would look at the bigger items. Much of what you listed deals with Iraq, the Scooter Libby/Valerie Plame topic, and the Supreme Court decision which occurred before he took office. You can list it out with a bunch of words to make it seem like more, but voters don't see either of the Bush's as scandalous figures. They may not agree with their policy decisions, but you are way off base here.

[knapplc]

Most of what I listed deals with that era because I got bored. There's dozens and dozens more throughout Bush's tenure.

"Voters" are not one bloc. YOU may think the Bushes aren't scandalous, but plenty of "voters" do.

Jeb failed in large part due to the George W taint attached to him. Trump made sure of that.

[HuskerNation1]

Most of what I listed deals with that era because I got bored. There's dozens and dozens more throughout Bush's tenure.

 

"Voters" are not one bloc. YOU may think the Bushes aren't scandalous, but plenty of "voters" do.

 

Jeb failed in large part due to the George W taint attached to him. Trump made sure of that.

 

You are confusing "scandals/corruption" with policy decisions. A President's can have good job approval while also being viewed as scandalous and corrupt (as I would say is the case with Bill Clinton), or can have lower job approvals while being viewed personally very well (as is the case with Bush 43). As of July, 2016, both Bush 43 and Clinton have about the same approval from the general public, with Bush 43 edging him out by 1 point.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/19/george-w-bush-is-suddenly-as-popular-as-bill-clinton/

[knapplc]

I know very well what scandals and corruption are. I lived through Dick Cheney's puppeteering of the White House.

[HuskerNation1]

I know very well what scandals and corruption are. I lived through Dick Cheney's puppeteering of the White House.

 

So if Cheney's Halliburton scandal is how you determine that Bush 43 was scandalous, then Obama must be very scandalous vis-a-vis Hillary alone.

[BigRedBuster]

Personally, I always thought the Halliburton crap was a made up scandal from the left.

 

There's much bigger issues during that era than that.

[knapplc]

Oh, Halliburton was a real issue. It was also only one of dozens of scandals during the Bush presidency, and not the sole litmus test for "did Bush have scandals."

[HuskerNation1]

Knapplc-To put it another way, I would not characterize Obamacare as a "scandal" even though it was (and remains today) a very unpopular policy decision in which Obama misled the public and had to use the nuclear option in the Senate to get it passed. It was an unfortunate decision he made, but I would not view that as a "scandal." It sounds like based upon your thought process it would be a "scandal."

[knapplc]

[TGHusker]

At least we get to hear Reagan's voice again!! Thanks