Police Dispatch During Shootings in Dallas and other police topics

[Ratt Mhule]

 

 

 

Same gun, same gun laws. Here are two distinct responses to a white vs black man open carrying. Not all police officers have to behavior in this discriminating manner for racial bias to be a problem in law enforcement. Personally, I am truly grantful to the service and sacrifice of our country's police forces. I am also motivated to see reforms in police recruitment and training to prevent unlawful treatment of individuals based on race.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGZnB41_e4

 

The first guy, 90% of his encounters do not go like that. Ive watched a lot of his videos on youtube. He even tells that cop at the end of the actual video that it was one of the best encounters hes had with police and he tells him that the officer did a great job.

 

 

And if I remember correctly, its been awhile since I saw that actual video. The officer takes out his AR15 and lets the guy hold it.

 

If so, that officer should be fired on the spot. Just handing a random civilian your weapon???

 

 

Just watched it again. My fault, he doesn't hand him the weapon. Just takes it out and shows him. But like I said, most of his encounters do not go like that. The guy does this just to get a rise out of officers.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N30TagPCNE4

[knapplc]

The guy does this just to get a rise out of officers.

We have a Hall of Fame in the Shed for people like that.

[zoogs]

So....I'll go back to my original question. What do we do if we wipe all those out and violent crime goes back up?

I think to a large degree we have wiped out these policies, and often it's based on evidence (for example, recidivism?) -- I'm not completely sure.

 

I suppose in answer to your question, if stressors like that occur, I'd expect nothing less than a resort to politically expedient, terrible 'solutions'. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/11/philippine-president-duterte-harry-acts-pledge-kill-drug-dealers/86936916/

 

The larger point, I guess, is that there is no serious current push to go back to the old days for what I think are good reasons. If anything, when we talk about tackling crime today, we're talking about being even less quick to ruin somebody's life. Those sorts of policies are traps, particularly for certain communities.

[BigRedBuster]

 

So....I'll go back to my original question. What do we do if we wipe all those out and violent crime goes back up?

I think to a large degree we have wiped out these policies, and often it's based on evidence (for example, recidivism?) -- I'm not completely sure.

 

I suppose in answer to your question, if stressors like that occur, I'd expect nothing less than a resort to politically expedient, terrible 'solutions'. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/11/philippine-president-duterte-harry-acts-pledge-kill-drug-dealers/86936916/

 

The larger point, I guess, is that there is no serious current push to go back to the old days for what I think are good reasons. If anything, when we talk about tackling crime today, we're talking about being even less quick to ruin somebody's life. Those sorts of policies are traps, particularly for certain communities.

 

But, that's not what it was like in the early and mid 80s. Crime was unbelievably horrible in even more areas than where it is bad today and something needed to be done on a drastic measure.

 

My point is, high crime rates like what was happening in the mid 80s is totally unacceptable. Heck, there are lots of areas still today where the crime should be absolutely unacceptable in a civilized society. If the communities that are affected by these high crime rates want it fixed, then they have to be a major part of the solution instead of sitting back and bitching about the bad crime and then bitching even more when outside people try to fix it and it goes wrong.....(even though the crime went down).

[TAKODA]

 

 

 

 

Same gun, same gun laws. Here are two distinct responses to a white vs black man open carrying. Not all police officers have to behavior in this discriminating manner for racial bias to be a problem in law enforcement. Personally, I am truly grantful to the service and sacrifice of our country's police forces. I am also motivated to see reforms in police recruitment and training to prevent unlawful treatment of individuals based on race.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGZnB41_e4

 

The first guy, 90% of his encounters do not go like that. Ive watched a lot of his videos on youtube. He even tells that cop at the end of the actual video that it was one of the best encounters hes had with police and he tells him that the officer did a great job.

 

 

And if I remember correctly, its been awhile since I saw that actual video. The officer takes out his AR15 and lets the guy hold it.

 

If so, that officer should be fired on the spot. Just handing a random civilian your weapon???

 

 

Just watched it again. My fault, he doesn't hand him the weapon. Just takes it out and shows him. But like I said, most of his encounters do not go like that. The guy does this just to get a rise out of officers.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N30TagPCNE4

 

 

THIS ↑

 

These ass hats could be keeping this officer from saving the lives of others in need, by their grandstanding. I believe this officer went way above and beyond trying to appease them. In a Terry stop, the officer had every right to request the information he was requesting, without violating anyone's rights!

 

If I can make a logical suggestion to those who may be too stupid to understand that (in the time frame we currently find ourselves in), I would not suggest you go out and purposely test members of law enforcement to see how they might react. If you are so inclined to stand up for your rights to bear arms, so be it. Just do it with the common decency of knowing that law enforcement gets calls from concerned citizens who don't usually see people open carry walking down their street. It is that officers duty to make sure you are not a threat to others. Keep your hands where they can see them, do as they request as they can pat you down to see if you are carrying any other weapons or dangerous objects. The mere fact that you might cause undo panic in the streets, could be enough to charge you with a lessor crime, if you chose to be a dick about letting them do their job.

[BigRedBuster]

 

I don't know. I'm not even sure I can list policies from that era that need to be abandoned.

 

It's just a common theme for people to claim that we need to abandon policies from that era.

 

I remember Bill Clinton putting 100,000 more police on the streets to be tougher on crime. Other than that, I'm not sure what these statements mean.

The 'suprepredators' craze: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/26/why-hillary-clintons-super-predator-apology-is-such-a-big-moment-for-political-protest/

 

And almost certainly, there would be little written or said in daily campaign coverage about what that Clinton crime bill did. To be clear, it made the nation’s already-elevated incarceration rate far, far worse. It stripped those convicted of drug crimes of all sorts of post-prison help, including federal student loans, making recidivism all the more likely. And that’s just a quick list.

"Broken Windows" policing:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-problem-with-broken-windows-policing/

 

Stop & Frisk

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/08/13/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-stop-and-frisk-and-why-the-courts-shut-it-down/

 

Broadly, I feel that going hard after crime is a feel-good resort, not a solution. And I think my views are simply gathered from an orthodoxy that has evolved:

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/08/16/212620886/the-shift-in-black-views-of-the-war-on-drugs

 

But eventually, even some of the staunchest supporters of mandatory minimums saw that these policies had badly backfired, in part because they lumped addicts and small-time dealers with drug kingpins and violent gang leaders. And they also consigned countless African-American men to prisons across the country.

 

I found the last paragraph interesting from the PBS article on the "Broken Window" policing.

 

In Newark, Mayor Ras Baraka told FRONTLINE that the police department will return to what he called “neighborhood policing.” As part of the mandated reform process, officers are being re-trained, and given more accountability.

The goal is to have officers “who know people’s grandmothers, who know the institutions of the community, who look at people as human beings, right?” Baraka said. “And so that’s the beginning of it. If you don’t look at the people you are policing as human, then you begin to treat them inhumanely.”

 

 

I remember an article I had read shortly after the Ferguson riots and the discussion had started with how you improve the police department. One of the things that was mentioned was that all of the police department lived somewhere else other than the community they were policing.

 

One point it claimed was that the force had tried to recruit from the community but was unable to do so.

Well....one can't happen without the other. Somehow the force needs to figure out how to talk some of these people into being police officers in their own communities.

[huskerfan2000]

 

 

 

Reality tells me this is (the uproar) nothing more than the racial pot being stirred. Why do we not hear, from the national media, about even one case of a white person being killed by police for no reason? I have not seen one case being talked about on any of the evening news channels.

 

To keep the racial divide alive and well, that is why!

 

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/01/unarmed-white-man-killed-by-alabama-police-no-protests-no-riots-no-national-media/

 

This story of an unarmed white teen being shot by a police officer made national media not even a week ago.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3679705/Horrific-new-video-shows-police-shooting-dead-unarmed-California-teen-19-lay-ground.html

 

They say BLM is not about race. What if someone started White lives matter, how would that go over with black leaders?

 

 

Giuliani says this..

 

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/07/11/rudy-giuliani-black-lives-matter-violence-chicago-fox-and-friends

Wish the movement was called "Black Lives Also Matter" or "Black Lives Matter Too" because some construe the current meaning to be "Only Black Lives Matter" which allows it to become polarized. Of course, it does not really matter what the movement is labeled because if you are offended by its existence, it is evident where you stand on racial injustice or that you simply misunderstand its intent. Was the Civil Rights Movement in the 60's racist as it clearly was a movement to gain equal rights for minorities and did not directly further the rights of whites in society? Certainly not.

 

 

You consider The Daily Mail to be the national news, or did you see ABC and consider that national, even though it was a local affiliate? I end up watching the nightly news every night and this was not mentioned once by any of national media, that I can remember.

 

BLM is about furthering racial divide, not fixing it. Killings by cops happen to whites more so than blacks, even taking into account population.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/

 

 

Nobel Prize-winning novelist Toni Morrison says she wants to see an officer shoot an unarmed white teenager in the back before agreeing that the “conversation about race” is over, but she almost certainly already has received her wish.

 

 

“If one adjusts for the racial disparity in the homicide rate or the rate at which police are feloniously killed, whites are actually more likely to be killed by police than blacks,” said Mr. Moskos, a former Baltimore cop and author of the book “Cop in the Hood.”

“Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police,” he said. “Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.”

 

My bad. I just grabbed the first link to the story.

 

Here are the links from numerous national media outlets.

 

Huffington Post

CBS News

Fox News

LA Times

ABC News (National website, not a local affiliate)

NBC News

 

If I remember correctly, I heard the story first during my drive home from work while listening to WAMU. Sorry, that's a local affiliate of NPR, but one that serves the DC area, not Fresno, California, where the shooting occurred.

 

 

I stand corrected.. kind of. it was on national news WEBSITES, just not on TV.. So, kind of back burner, that story can't take precedence over the black killing.

[TAKODA]

This is the link to the situation I recalled from last year in my post #179 above.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E9bI1iwQUM

[JJ Husker]

Well I think HB has helped change my opinion on at least one more thing. It didn't really change per se, it was just that I didn't realize I may have been supporting some asshat that wanted to open carry an AR15. I don't think that is something we need to allow as a society. I don't recognize how that could possibly do more good than harm. Not sure what the solution is but banning open carry (and concealed carry, if that's possible) of an assault rifle would seem to be a good thing.

 

To be clear, I think if you're out in public with an assault rifle, it should be pretty justifiable and expected if you've already taken your last breath of air.

[cm husker]

I haven't read the methodologies on the % comparisons, but have they all controlled for socio-economic demographics?

For example, if 50% of the poorest 1/3 of Americans are white and 30% are black and 20% are other minorities, among those groups how do the ratios play out?

 

My point is, maybe it's not that blacks are disproportionately killed by police (even when unarmed), but that all poor people are disproportionately killed by police. That could be for a number of reasons.

 

That said, maybe they already control for these factors.

 

To me, it's also important to ask, when talking about the general number of people killed, what % of those killed were found to be unarmed and/or not realistically threatening to the police or citizens? That's a hard stat to pull, though, because police write the reports.

 

Finally, my concern with these national statistics is that they imply that the likelihood of being killed based on race is approx. the same in every jurisdiction. It could be that the likelihood is high only in certain places and that most police dept are doing a good job enforcing laws fairly.

[Landlord]

I don't know of any of those numbers, but being poor and being black go hand in hand, generally.

 

 

cm you're smart enough to understand that the systemic bias against minorities isn't a nefarious, explicit condemnation because they happen to have a certain skin tone. It's centuries of stacked momentum that puts people at a socioeconomic disadvantage, which leads to inadequate education, which leads to more crime, which leads to more single parents because of a lack of sex education or healthcare or contraception, which leads to gang membership because they offer this idea of 'family' to fatherless boys, which leads to more crime, which leads to incarceration, and so on and so forth ad nauseum until it starts over.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as the % of those killed who were unarmed, I don't know the percentage out of the total number of people killed by police, but unarmed blacks are 5-7x as likely, depending on the source, to be shot/killed by police than unarmed whites.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/study-finds-police-fatally-shoot-unarmed-black-men-at-disproportionate-rates/2016/04/06/e494563e-fa74-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html

[Thanks_Tom RR]

I don't know of any of those numbers, but being poor and being black go hand in hand, generally.

 

 

cm you're smart enough to understand that the systemic bias against minorities isn't a nefarious, explicit condemnation because they happen to have a certain skin tone. It's centuries of stacked momentum that puts people at a socioeconomic disadvantage, which leads to inadequate education, which leads to more crime, which leads to more single parents because of a lack of sex education or healthcare or contraception, which leads to gang membership because they offer this idea of 'family' to fatherless boys, which leads to more crime, which leads to incarceration, and so on and so forth ad nauseum until it starts over.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as the % of those killed who were unarmed, I don't know the percentage out of the total number of people killed by police, but unarmed blacks are 5-7x as likely, depending on the source, to be shot/killed by police than unarmed whites.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/study-finds-police-fatally-shoot-unarmed-black-men-at-disproportionate-rates/2016/04/06/e494563e-fa74-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html

Since 2015, 10% of people shot and killed by police were unarmed, and there have been exactly the same number of unarmed white and black people shot and killed by police (50 total, as of this past Sunday). The US population is made up of 62% white and 13% black people. Thus, unarmed black people have been disproportionately shot and killed by police compared to white people. All of these numbers can be found in the Washington Post Police Shootings Database. This report synthesized the numbers, and this report provides several trends related to police shootings.

[BigRedBuster]

 

I don't know of any of those numbers, but being poor and being black go hand in hand, generally.

 

 

cm you're smart enough to understand that the systemic bias against minorities isn't a nefarious, explicit condemnation because they happen to have a certain skin tone. It's centuries of stacked momentum that puts people at a socioeconomic disadvantage, which leads to inadequate education, which leads to more crime, which leads to more single parents because of a lack of sex education or healthcare or contraception, which leads to gang membership because they offer this idea of 'family' to fatherless boys, which leads to more crime, which leads to incarceration, and so on and so forth ad nauseum until it starts over.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as the % of those killed who were unarmed, I don't know the percentage out of the total number of people killed by police, but unarmed blacks are 5-7x as likely, depending on the source, to be shot/killed by police than unarmed whites.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/study-finds-police-fatally-shoot-unarmed-black-men-at-disproportionate-rates/2016/04/06/e494563e-fa74-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html

Since 2015, 10% of people shot and killed by police were unarmed, and there have been exactly the same number of unarmed white and black people shot and killed by police (50 total, as of this past Sunday). The US population is made up of 62% white and 13% black people. Thus, unarmed black people have been disproportionately shot and killed by police compared to white people. All of these numbers can be found in the Washington Post Police Shootings Database. This report synthesized the numbers, and this report provides several trends related to police shootings.

 

I support the BLM movement and fully understand there is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.

However, just looking at the statistics, just because someone is unarmed doesn't mean the officer wasn't justified.

[Landlord]

However, just looking at the statistics, just because someone is unarmed doesn't mean the officer wasn't justified.

 

 

This is true, while it's also true that just because an officer is justified, doesn't mean that person couldn't/shouldn't have been able to make it out of that situation alive.

[BigRedBuster]

 

However, just looking at the statistics, just because someone is unarmed doesn't mean the officer wasn't justified.

 

 

This is true, while it's also true that just because an officer is justified, doesn't mean that person couldn't/shouldn't have been able to make it out of that situation alive.

 

Hmmmmm....so, if an officer is justified in the shooting, he is still wrong?

 

 

See....this is at the point where I say.....hold on......the person who got shot has to start taking responsibility for his actions.