How Half Of America Lost Its F**king Mind

[Undone]

Could be. Maybe he can clarify.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Could be. Maybe he can clarify.

 

Well on one hand I was wondering what suddenly offended conservatives about Obama (and presumably HRC) policies they can't name and Constitutional provisions they didn't break, and why the outrage didn't extend back to the previous Republican administration.

 

On the other hand, I also think we are better off today than we were in 2008, usually a litmus test at election time.

 

On the third hand I rarely use: I'm not a Ron Paul man, but I'm not about to disagree with you, Undone. If you really want to confuse and anger everyone, you can make a case that Obama (and the presumptive Clinton) govern much closer to a Bush administration than either side wants to admit. The left should be far more outraged by the rendition and drone programs, and the right should be hailing Obama as a beast in the war on terror.

 

And every candidate not named Bernie Sanders is pro-business. And even Sanders would have been brought largely in line had he slipped in.

[Undone]

Anger and confusion: The two primary hallmarks of Trump supporters?

 

And yes, the outrage for me definitely extends back to Bush. I take whatever I can get - I would have been "happy" (not actually, but just contextually speaking) with Obama if he had at least just cut back on some of these policies. Especially with regards to foreign policy.

[TonyStalloni]

I'm a Ron Paul man myself. My Lancaster County voter registration card says 'Republican' solely because Ron (in 2012) and Rand (this year) ran as Republicans.

 

We'll go with this - Obama is essentially on the same level as Bush as it pertains to violating Constitutional rights. How's that?

I can't argue that Bush didn't abuse the Constitution. I think a good part of the anger by conservatives I know started when Bush was in office.

[zoogs]

Anger and confusion: The two primary hallmarks of Trump supporters?

 

And yes, the outrage for me definitely extends back to Bush. I take whatever I can get - I would have been "happy" (not actually, but just contextually speaking) with Obama if he had at least just cut back on some of these policies. Especially with regards to foreign policy.

Me too. However, I'm not sure this would have been so easy, or even possible. With both chambers of Congress, Obama succeeded in passing the new healthcare law -- an accomplishment long considered a liberal dream.; tried and forestalled before, notably in the 1990s. He's faced charges of ramming this through, and we've had several elections serving as referendums on the law (including this one!).

 

I'm relatively happy it passed. I'm not sure it was worth the cost. He spent a lot of the political capital he had in passing it, and has continued to do so defending it. Then again, leaving it status quo would have had its own political (as well as human) costs.

 

When it comes to security or terrorism, I don't get the sense there's any bipartisan support there. Recall the 9/11 bill override. There remains a lot of - valid! - disappointment in the failure to roll back or even curb the growth of the security state, but I wonder how on earth he would have accomplished that. There are withering critiques in this administration's policies, particularly on drones, from both the left and the right. Nonetheless, they are fairly on-the-margins voter interests around which there isn't any sort of cohesive political movement.

 

I don't see an easy way out of this, really. But times change; what wasn't tractable in the 90s with healthcare eventually became contentious, but passable in 2010. The same, one might hope, is true of this area today. Eventually, the movement will gather steam.

[TonyStalloni]

 

 

 

The disparity between education level of Trump voters and non Trump voters is really all one needs to know. More education a person has, the less likely they are to vote Trump. The less education someone has, the more likely they are to vote Trump.

 

He (along with the media for normalizing his outrageous campaign) has validated bigotry, and that the notion that your feelings are equal to facts. Bringing up facts and verbatim quotes has somehow been demonized.

 

People claim the system is broken. The system is functioning as it should. The system is predicated on an educated, informed populace. When our populace is uninformed, uneducated, denies science, denies facts, denies verbatim quotes and embraces bigotry... then this is what you get. The populace is the problem. Garbage in. Garbage out.

+1+1+1+1+1+1

 

"Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored". ~Aldous Huxley

 

 

Careful. Cronyism permeates both political aisles. That is a fact. There is indeed a corruption of the system as it pertains to special interests, lobbying, and cronyism that is absolutely a problem in the system.

 

The system is not functioning as it should. The way you've spun it makes it sound nice as a knockout punch to Trump, sure. But it's a misrepresentation of reality.

 

 

I wasn't talking about cronyism. I never denied that it existed on both sides of the aisle. Not sure how you got that from my post.

 

I was talking about the uneducated, ignorant, bigoted populace that denies facts and science resulting in the election at hand.

 

Most people have no idea what labor statistics mean, what net immigration is, how carbon levels in the atmosphere are measured, how many Justices are on the Supreme Court, how a bill becomes a law, or even who their representative from Congress is. But darnit they're just sure that global warming is a hoax and all the brown folks are takin' all the good jobs. When you have an ignorant and bigoted populace, you get ignorant and bigoted representation.

 

And please tell me what political party is most represented in teaching this "ignorant and bigoted" populace? Please quit acting like ignorance and bigotry reside on just one side of the political fence. There is plenty on both sides these days to go around.

[zoogs]

Which party denies climate change and tries to restrict the teaching of evolution? He's absolutely right, there. And this has had easily seen (and quite serious) consequences.

 

I think there's also some worthy reading on the nature of the media edifice the GOP has built itself upon. Conservatives are not entirely on board with it, and they've been grappling with the realities of it for some time. Here's some good reading: 1, 2.

 

Bruce Bartlett, a veteran of Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush’s administrations, wrote that in the last few years, “epistemic closure” had become much worse among “the intelligentsia of the conservative movement.” He later added that the cream of the conservative research institutes, including the American Enterprise Institute and the Heritage Foundation, had gone from presenting informed policy analyses to pumping out propaganda.

[Moiraine]

And please tell me what political party is most represented in teaching this "ignorant and bigoted" populace? Please quit acting like ignorance and bigotry reside on just one side of the political fence. There is plenty on both sides these days to go around.

 

In what ways do you think Democrats are ignorant and bigoted, in general. I don't mean a few people. Obviously there are ignorant and bigoted people everywhere.

 

It's hard for me to see Democrats being as bad as Republicans in this regard given that Republicans are far and away more likely to think climate change isn't real, humans have no effect on it, evolution isn't real, and sex ed = abstinence.

 

The one where I can see there being an equal number of ignorant people is the anti-vaccine movement. There are crazy Democrat hippies who are against vaccines. There are also probably more on the left who are anti chloride and believe things like this:

 

[84HuskerLaw]

What makes the liberals 'think' (I will use that term loosely to be roughly equivalent to 'believe' as most liberals think with their emotions instead of logic and factual based reasoning):

 

1. There is actual evidence that 'global warming,' to the extent that the overall average temperature of the Earth as somehow measured by someone someway in a reliable, trustworthy and accurate way, is caused by human beings behaving the way conservatives believe they should behave?

 

2. What evidence is there that public education in the United States is better today than it was 40 years ago?

 

3. List three fundamental public policy differences between liberals and conservatives today as espoused by Hillary Clinton, Presidential Candidate, and or Obama as President for nearly 8 years, as compared to the public policies espoused and implemented by President Reagan and why you 'think' that Reagan was wrong and Obama/Clinton were/are right?

 

4. The country has been governed and run by the left and the left leaning policies and agendas for the last 5 decades (since the LBJ admin.). What social changes based on the changes implemented by the Democrats have truly made America a better Nation and the lives of the people as a whole better? Cite three examples and provide a short list of the actual policy steps taken by the Democrats to implement them. By this question, I would like to know exactly what the liberals on this board believe has been really done by the agenda implemented by the left to make America a better place.

 

I will follow up with these queries by simply stating that I doubt most Democrat voters today can answer them and certainly very few could answer them correctly. Most Democrat voters today do not know the basic difference between a Democrat and a Republican or an independent and could not begin to explain it. They basically vote Democrat because their parents and grandparents voted that way and have no clue why. Many, if you asked them basic questions about public policy today, will answer the Republican/conservative way, so to speak, preferring the government act in a 'conservative' way and not the way promoted by the Democrat party. They vote for a liberal believing him/her to be the defacto conservative on most subjects.

 

These are simply the facts.

[NM11046]

What makes the liberals 'think' (I will use that term loosely to be roughly equivalent to 'believe' as most liberals think with their emotions instead of logic and factual based reasoning):

 

1. There is actual evidence that 'global warming,' to the extent that the overall average temperature of the Earth as somehow measured by someone someway in a reliable, trustworthy and accurate way, is caused by human beings behaving the way conservatives believe they should behave?

 

2. What evidence is there that public education in the United States is better today than it was 40 years ago?

 

3. List three fundamental public policy differences between liberals and conservatives today as espoused by Hillary Clinton, Presidential Candidate, and or Obama as President for nearly 8 years, as compared to the public policies espoused and implemented by President Reagan and why you 'think' that Reagan was wrong and Obama/Clinton were/are right?

 

4. The country has been governed and run by the left and the left leaning policies and agendas for the last 5 decades (since the LBJ admin.). What social changes based on the changes implemented by the Democrats have truly made America a better Nation and the lives of the people as a whole better? Cite three examples and provide a short list of the actual policy steps taken by the Democrats to implement them. By this question, I would like to know exactly what the liberals on this board believe has been really done by the agenda implemented by the left to make America a better place.

 

I will follow up with these queries by simply stating that I doubt most Democrat voters today can answer them and certainly very few could answer them correctly. Most Democrat voters today do not know the basic difference between a Democrat and a Republican or an independent and could not begin to explain it. They basically vote Democrat because their parents and grandparents voted that way and have no clue why. Many, if you asked them basic questions about public policy today, will answer the Republican/conservative way, so to speak, preferring the government act in a 'conservative' way and not the way promoted by the Democrat party. They vote for a liberal believing him/her to be the defacto conservative on most subjects.

 

These are simply the facts.

This is offensive.

 

You clumping all people with one common factor (political affiliation) into one bucket, and assuming they're uneducated and unable to think for themselves is ridiculous. You like to think of yourself (or should I say you "feel") more important and smarter than those who disagree with you.

 

People on this board have provided healthy debate, facts, links and arguments to all the information you posted above and I for one won't rehash any of it with you. You won't change your beliefs about the issues and that's fine. No matter what people answer and provide you'll just respond with some cocky condescending statement. I hope that one day you'll be able to step off your high horse and realize that all people are individuals capable of thinking and having opinions ... just like you. And those opinions are ok, and should be respected.

 

I could easily make offensive judgements about small minded, republicans who are unable to think for themselves and just regurgitate facts and talking points that they get from their limited resources. But I don't. Because I'm bigger than that. I can disagree with your politics without calling you stupid and accusing you of being a follower of your parents and stating that you can't define the difference between a Republican and a Democrat.

[Guy Chamberlin]

 

I'm a Ron Paul man myself. My Lancaster County voter registration card says 'Republican' solely because Ron (in 2012) and Rand (this year) ran as Republicans.

 

We'll go with this - Obama is essentially on the same level as Bush as it pertains to violating Constitutional rights. How's that?

I can't argue that Bush didn't abuse the Constitution. I think a good part of the anger by conservatives I know started when Bush was in office.

 

 

I believe you Toni, but man......I remember almost zero criticism of Bush by conservatives when he was actually in offense, and much spirited defense. The distancing from Bush began around the 2008 election when the economy was tanking and the Republican Party considered him a political liability.

[mrandyk]

What makes the liberals 'think' (I will use that term loosely to be roughly equivalent to 'believe' as most liberals think with their emotions instead of logic and factual based reasoning):

 

1. There is actual evidence that 'global warming,' to the extent that the overall average temperature of the Earth as somehow measured by someone someway in a reliable, trustworthy and accurate way, is caused by human beings behaving the way conservatives believe they should behave?

 

2. What evidence is there that public education in the United States is better today than it was 40 years ago?

 

3. List three fundamental public policy differences between liberals and conservatives today as espoused by Hillary Clinton, Presidential Candidate, and or Obama as President for nearly 8 years, as compared to the public policies espoused and implemented by President Reagan and why you 'think' that Reagan was wrong and Obama/Clinton were/are right?

 

4. The country has been governed and run by the left and the left leaning policies and agendas for the last 5 decades (since the LBJ admin.). What social changes based on the changes implemented by the Democrats have truly made America a better Nation and the lives of the people as a whole better? Cite three examples and provide a short list of the actual policy steps taken by the Democrats to implement them. By this question, I would like to know exactly what the liberals on this board believe has been really done by the agenda implemented by the left to make America a better place.

 

I will follow up with these queries by simply stating that I doubt most Democrat voters today can answer them and certainly very few could answer them correctly. Most Democrat voters today do not know the basic difference between a Democrat and a Republican or an independent and could not begin to explain it. They basically vote Democrat because their parents and grandparents voted that way and have no clue why. Many, if you asked them basic questions about public policy today, will answer the Republican/conservative way, so to speak, preferring the government act in a 'conservative' way and not the way promoted by the Democrat party. They vote for a liberal believing him/her to be the defacto conservative on most subjects.

 

These are simply the facts.

You are close minded, and having a closed mind will always prevent progress.

 

Actual fact.

[HuskerNation1]

 

And please tell me what political party is most represented in teaching this "ignorant and bigoted" populace? Please quit acting like ignorance and bigotry reside on just one side of the political fence. There is plenty on both sides these days to go around.

 

In what ways do you think Democrats are ignorant and bigoted, in general. I don't mean a few people. Obviously there are ignorant and bigoted people everywhere.

 

It's hard for me to see Democrats being as bad as Republicans in this regard given that Republicans are far and away more likely to think climate change isn't real, humans have no effect on it, evolution isn't real, and sex ed = abstinence.

 

The one where I can see there being an equal number of ignorant people is the anti-vaccine movement. There are crazy Democrat hippies who are against vaccines. There are also probably more on the left who are anti chloride and believe things like this:

 

 

 

This suggestion that one party is more bigoted than another is utterly ridiculous and speaks to the elitist mentality prevalent in many on the left. Both parties have extremists, and just as some on the right are less inclined to believe in "scientific" evidence about humans causing climate change, many on the left are unwilling to admit that science is proving that late-term abortions are killing innocent babies who are capable of surviving outside the womb as early as 20 to 22 weeks.

[HuskerNation1]

 

 

I'm a Ron Paul man myself. My Lancaster County voter registration card says 'Republican' solely because Ron (in 2012) and Rand (this year) ran as Republicans.

 

We'll go with this - Obama is essentially on the same level as Bush as it pertains to violating Constitutional rights. How's that?

I can't argue that Bush didn't abuse the Constitution. I think a good part of the anger by conservatives I know started when Bush was in office.

 

 

I believe you Toni, but man......I remember almost zero criticism of Bush by conservatives when he was actually in offense, and much spirited defense. The distancing from Bush began around the 2008 election when the economy was tanking and the Republican Party considered him a political liability.

 

 

What planet are you living on...there was tons of criticism of Bush by Conservatives in his 2nd term in regard to out of control spending and adding Medicare Part D. The big question is where is all the criticism of President Obama and his many failures from the left? We are less safe under him, health insurance premiums are skyrocketing nationwide, and he's added more to the national debt than any other POTUS, yet the left sits silent.

[mrandyk]

 

 

And please tell me what political party is most represented in teaching this "ignorant and bigoted" populace? Please quit acting like ignorance and bigotry reside on just one side of the political fence. There is plenty on both sides these days to go around.

 

In what ways do you think Democrats are ignorant and bigoted, in general. I don't mean a few people. Obviously there are ignorant and bigoted people everywhere.

 

It's hard for me to see Democrats being as bad as Republicans in this regard given that Republicans are far and away more likely to think climate change isn't real, humans have no effect on it, evolution isn't real, and sex ed = abstinence.

 

The one where I can see there being an equal number of ignorant people is the anti-vaccine movement. There are crazy Democrat hippies who are against vaccines. There are also probably more on the left who are anti chloride and believe things like this:

 

 

 

This suggestion that one party is more bigoted than another is utterly ridiculous and speaks to the elitist mentality prevalent in many on the left. Both parties have extremists, and just as some on the right are less inclined to believe in "scientific" evidence about humans causing climate change, many on the left are unwilling to admit that science is proving that late-term abortions are killing innocent babies who are capable of surviving outside the womb as early as 20 to 22 weeks.

 

Please, do tell how this "scientific" evidence on climate change is incorrect. You seem like someone in a position to dispute their research.