Repealing the ACA under Trump

[Kiyoat Husker]

Trumpcare is going to have a really short shelf-life. Just like the terms of the Republicans championing it.

[Danny Bateman]

Very interesting transcripts of interviews with 8 GOP senators on what's going on with their healthcare bill.

 

Portman is the only one they interviewed that's actually in the group McConnell selected to craft their bill. Note how little any of them know about the process beyond talking points about "skyrocketing premiums" (every single time, the word choice is skyrocketing) and "freedom", "choice" & "stability."

Even Portman doesn't say a whole lot. It is telling that he won't flat out say premiums will decrease; perhaps they will just go up less. Very different from the future we heard preached by loyal Republicans in the past if they were given a chance to repeal and replace. Note that he talks about trying to protect those on Medicaid; they're definitely acutely aware that doing what they want to do to Medicaid will displace millions of Americans from their healthcare. But Portman's moderate position is underrepresented on their panel, and leaks suggest the Senate bill will be closer to the House bill than any of us thought. Of course, we don't know because they won't show us. But if that is the case, it will mean very bad things for Medicaid patients. Amazingly, cutting Medicaid more slowly (say, over ten years) still results in millions losing their healthcare. Huh... who could've known?

[Danny Bateman]

Oh, and then there's this. The top public health official in the US hasn't seen the bill either. But he'd like a vote.

 

[zoogs]

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/19/15753678/health-care-industry-lobbying-ahca

 

 

The health care industry killed Hillarycare in the 1990s and cut deals to shape Obamacare more to its liking in 2009. But now, as Republicans push a sweeping and widely reviled health bill through Congress, the industry has often appeared declawed in the biggest health care fight of the decade.

 

It’s a deliberate strategy, interviews with nearly 20 lobbyists and other experts suggest. Health industry groups generally don’t love Obamacare enough to jeopardize their ability to shape the rest of the Republican agenda — including big corporate tax cuts. They also fear incurring White House retaliation.

 

How do we move forward in a sane way? By an administration that has positive priorities and uses their weight to make allies of industry, without giving up too much.

 

As time passes I think we’ll appreciate the Obama administration’s efforts in this area more and more. It wasn't easy to even come so far. And it's so easy to backslide.

[knapplc]

As time passes I think we’ll appreciate the Obama administration’s efforts in this area more and more.

Trump is doing more to ensure that Obama has a positive legacy than Obama ever did.

[BigRedBuster]

I find it interesting that all these organizations, groups and people are coming out condemning the Republican Senate plan. Has anyone seen it? I don't think I have seen one article that clearly spells out what the heck they are putting in it. In fact, all the articles I see have a headline claiming the Republicans are writing it in secret.

 

I find this interesting because it shows two things.

 

a) Party politics = some people are going to oppose whatever they put out there no matter what. (Sound familiar from the other direction)?

 

b) One hell of a lot of people have very very very low confidence the Republicans can put a decent plan together. (probably where I'm at now).

[RedDenver]

I find it interesting that all these organizations, groups and people are coming out condemning the Republican Senate plan. Has anyone seen it? I don't think I have seen one article that clearly spells out what the heck they are putting in it. In fact, all the articles I see have a headline claiming the Republicans are writing it in secret.

 

I find this interesting because it shows two things.

 

a) Party politics = some people are going to oppose whatever they put out there no matter what. (Sound familiar from the other direction)?

 

b) One hell of a lot of people have very very very low confidence the Republicans can put a decent plan together. (probably where I'm at now).

c) The Republicans think their bill is going to be unpopular. (We'll know for sure if they attempt to ram it through quickly, especially if they don't wait for the CBO score it.)

[BigRedBuster]

 

I find it interesting that all these organizations, groups and people are coming out condemning the Republican Senate plan. Has anyone seen it? I don't think I have seen one article that clearly spells out what the heck they are putting in it. In fact, all the articles I see have a headline claiming the Republicans are writing it in secret.

 

I find this interesting because it shows two things.

 

a) Party politics = some people are going to oppose whatever they put out there no matter what. (Sound familiar from the other direction)?

 

b) One hell of a lot of people have very very very low confidence the Republicans can put a decent plan together. (probably where I'm at now).

c) The Republicans think their bill is going to be unpopular. (We'll know for sure if they attempt to ram it through quickly, especially if they don't wait for the CBO score it.)

 

Oh...it's obvious that's why they are doing it in secret.

 

I would absolutely love for them to come out and unveil a grand program that drastically decreases the cost of providing healthcare and allows access to everyone and they only did it in secret so they didn't get outside influences by people or organizations that wouldn't want that.

 

But.....my confidence is shot.

[Danny Bateman]

So what of the GOP if they just ram it through before the CBO or before there has been a reasoned debate of any type? I was reading today McConnell still wants to get it voted on either way before the July 4 recess.

 

Are we as a people OK with that process, where everything was done in a partisan, closed-door manner? I wonder what tact most people will take? Do you think they will just go back to their lives as usual, even if the bill winds up being similar to the House bill (i.e., terrible)? Or will there be some type of reckoning for the GOP?

[BigRedBuster]

The vast majority of Americans will be upset they did it. There will be roughly around 30% of people who fully 100% believe this was a masterfully planned move to Make America Great again and they had to do it because the evil press and liberals would have painted them into an unfair corner. Those evil press and liberals are out to do nothing but destroy their efforts to MAGA because secretly they hate America and everything that is good in the world. These same people will admit this was a drastic move but.....THEY are much smarter and much more of a patriot for this country....so, this is the appropriate method to accomplish what needs done.

[JJ Husker]

So what of the GOP if they just ram it through before the CBO or before there has been a reasoned debate of any type? I was reading today McConnell still wants to get it voted on either way before the July 4 recess.

 

Are we as a people OK with that process, where everything was done in a partisan, closed-door manner? I wonder what tact most people will take? Do you think they will just go back to their lives as usual, even if the bill winds up being similar to the House bill (i.e., terrible)? Or will there be some type of reckoning for the GOP?

 

I think it all depends on how popular (good) the bill is for actual healthcare.

Ramming through Obamacare may have drawn some ire from the right but it was fairly well accepted because it improved some things with healthcare.

It will be much the same with whatever happens now. If it improves anything and doesn't destroy gains made with Obamacare, it will be accepted by many.

If it at all resembles the Hose bill or is worse (if that's possible) of course there will have to be a reckoning for the GOP.

There's party politics and then there is f#cking with peoples lives. I think healthcare will almost always be judged on the latter.

 

Edit- Haha, I came back to edit my spelling of House and then realized it was more appropriate as Hose.

[Danny Bateman]

I would disagree with the assertion that the ACA was rammed through, but I otherwise agree with everything you guys said.

I would think if it's bad enough that it begins to hurt even the MAGA crowd's healthcare (and it should, as Trump states correlate nicely with poorer states who may have a higher reliance on Medicaid or SSDI), it may be an issue that could possibly cleave them from their place in the MAGA camp.

 

And, breaking news... There will be no bipartisan discussions or public debate.

 

[JJ Husker]

Well the ACA may not have been rammed through to the same extent the GOP may try to ram this one through but, yes, it was rammed through nonetheless.

 

You don't remember Pelosi encouraging it's passage, prior to reading the bill, so they could see what was in it later? I would call that ramming it through.

Unfortunately, that is probably the only way any bill can make it anymore. If either side allows any time whatsoever, the partisan spin and whining from across the aisle would be deafening. It seems to be an inverse relationship. The worse the bill, the faster it will try to be rammed through. Of course this Congress is redefining bad legislation so....

 

I have zero hope they will get anything right on this bill. Still no one is talking about actually making healthcare more affordable by fixing the cost issues. It's all smoke and mirrors, much like the ACA except that one actually fixed some access issues.

[zoogs]

That's a quote that has for years existed largely on campaign trails. So much so that we forget the context: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/the-context-behind-nancy-pelosis-famous-we-have-to-pass-the-bill-quote/

[Danny Bateman]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of rammed through.

 

The ACA was put on the floor of the Senate for markups and amendments, of which there were plenty.

 

 

People knew what was going on. Pelosi may have made a questionable quote that gets her raked through the mud out of context, but Obama himself went to town halls and took questions from the American public. They worked with the healthcare industry and patient advocacy groups. You may well be right that this will do nothing to help the cost issue, but compare that to the approach the GOP has taken.

 

We still haven't seen a bill. We didn't see a bill of the House version. They didn't wait for a CBO score in the House but voted anyway. Compare what Pelosi said about the ACA to what the GOP has offered about the AHCA. Most of the quotes I've read have been people saying they haven't seen their own party's bill either. There have been no markups. There have been no amendments. There has been no public debate. At all. We're still awaiting a CBO score, which could come early next week, but they want to vote on it next week regardless. And even if you don't think working with the healthcare industry was a good plan, Mitch McConnell actively shunned patient advocacy groups when they requested a meeting with his staff.

 

Lastly, could you imagine Trump trying to answer people's questions about this bill?

 

To me, one of those is a bill being rammed through, and one absolutely is not.