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I am one who thinks that in addition to Clinton being a flawed candidate, sexism had something to do with her defeat.

I really don't think this is the case. I think she was looked at as any other politician, regardless of sex. In fact, I'd say the fact that her gender very rarely made a dent in the national coverage of the race shows that gender was almost a non-factor.

 

The biggest factor in Hillary losing was the simple fact that people do not like her. That dislike has nothing to do with her gender.

 

 

Except when they were talking about how "tired she looked", how weak she was, how the white suit looked on tv - whether she had special lighting arranged, her lipstick color ...

 

You realize we talk about all those things with male candidates too, right?

 

1960... Nixon vs. Kennedy... Nixon's makeup...

 

People know this, right?

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I am one who thinks that in addition to Clinton being a flawed candidate, sexism had something to do with her defeat.

I really don't think this is the case. I think she was looked at as any other politician, regardless of sex. In fact, I'd say the fact that her gender very rarely made a dent in the national coverage of the race shows that gender was almost a non-factor.

 

The biggest factor in Hillary losing was the simple fact that people do not like her. That dislike has nothing to do with her gender.

 

 

Except when they were talking about how "tired she looked", how weak she was, how the white suit looked on tv - whether she had special lighting arranged, her lipstick color ...

 

You realize we talk about all those things with male candidates too, right?

 

1960... Nixon vs. Kennedy... Nixon's makeup...

 

People know this, right?

 

Yup - and there were bias' against Nixon too ... (and Kennedy). That tv debate and his melting makeup was discussed extensively!

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Sexism exists + Sexism manifests consistently in a lack of equal treatment toward high-achieving women + Sexism also manifests more frequently towards women that are assertive + Hillary Clinton is a woman + Hillary Clinton was running to become the most powerful person in the free world ... (what's a symbol for "is not a stretch of the imagination to say 'equals'" Sexism was a meaningful factor in Hillary Clinton's perception by people

 

 

 

Nobody, I don't think, is pointing to the result as evidence of this. The fact that she lost is mostly irrelevant - even if she would have won I would say the exact same things are true.

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The fact that a significantly different proportion of men voted for Clinton than did women points strongly to gender being a factor. However it's not necessarily as direct as men preferring Trump because he's male. Males tend to lean Republican, so Trump having an R by his name was a huge factor (let's be honest - it's the biggest) that explains the difference in proportions.

 

Again, going off gut here, I would guess a good model with 20 variables that decided the outcome would include gender. But gender would probably be one of the weaker ones out of the 20.

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Riddle me this:

 

A man with Hillary Clinton's exact record, policies, and baggage beats Donald Trump. Yes or no?

No. And breaking it down to gender is missing the point. That baggage is ENTIRELY why she lost. Her gender has nothing to do with it.

 

 

 

 

This whole conversation about gender is astounding. We just watched an election where a completely unworthy candidate beat a tremendously qualified candidate based solely on unlikeability, sound bites and blather, and here we are getting hung up the losing candidate's gender.

 

Good lord I hope the Dems aren't making the same mistake as we're seeing here or Donald will win in 2020 as well.

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Riddle me this:

 

A man with Hillary Clinton's exact record, policies, and baggage beats Donald Trump. Yes or no?

The problem is a man can't have the kind of baggage Hillary Clinton has. A huge reason for the number and length and intensity of the investigations against her was due to who her husband was and due to the possibility of her running for president in the future. There's no man whose wife was president of the U.S.

 

 

Which brings up another question. If a male politician's wife had affairs, would people use it against him?

 

I don't think so. I think they'd feel sorry for him for having a slut for a wife.

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If he had 30 years experience in government and legal work, 2 less marriages and a few other minor qualifications like ethics and respect for people.

Ethics and respect for people are highly questionable for both. Trump has plenty of legal work... and he's got plenty of experience in funding government.
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an unquantifiable but likely negligible amount

The minimization of gender as an issue every time it's brought up, even when it's explicitly not brought up as the issue, is frustrating.

 

Why must it be negligible?

 

Why can't Hillary both be a flawed candidate weighed down with political baggage be true at the same time that politics is a gendered institution such that we find ambitious, assertive, power-seeking women a lot more deserving of suspicion than their male counterparts? These aren't mutually exclusive, and we do ourselves a disservice to insist so.

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an unquantifiable but likely negligible amount

The minimization of gender as an issue every time it's brought up, even when it's explicitly not brought up as the issue, is frustrating.

 

Why must it be negligible?

 

Why can't Hillary both be a flawed candidate weighed down with political baggage be true at the same time that politics is a gendered institution such that we find ambitious, assertive, power-seeking women a lot more deserving of suspicion than their male counterparts? These aren't mutually exclusive, and we do ourselves a disservice to insist so.

 

Because there's nothing to support that theory. Just a lot of "what if" and "maybe."

 

I'm 100% willing to believe that, at times in our history, a woman running for office would have been insane. But this isn't that time. And Hillary's gender isn't why she lost.

 

Yes, gender bias exists, just like racial bias, religious bias, 100 other biases. But this molehill isn't the mountain she stumbled on. 20 years of misinformation, her general unlikeability, all the issues with Bill and the Trump Phenomenon is why she lost.

 

 

 

Why is it so hard to understand that people don't like her? Not because she's a she, but based on her own merits? She is a plastic person. That's irrespective of gender, party affiliation, anything.

 

She was forced down our throats, Bernie was scuttled by the Democratic Machine, and people did not react well to it.

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