Trump Foreign Policy

[Moiraine]

On 1/6/2018 at 5:47 PM, zoogs said:

https://newrepublic.com/article/146459/america-not-retreat-its-rogue-superpower?utm_content=bufferfad8d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

 

 

 

I can't say I mind selling arms to Ukraine. In fact I'd be fine with them giving some.

[ZRod]

3 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

inyerestng. 

 

Sources say "Trump is just now learning what NAFTA and other trade deals really are."

[NM11046]

Well it has only been 355 days since inauguration .... give him some time to catch his breath.  He's had other things going on.

[BigRedBuster]

Have to admit, I haven't decided my views on this move yet.

 

 

As in the Solar components industry, China has repeatedly taken and industry, pumped governmental money into it with no regard for employee safety and environmental impact so that these parts can be sold to other countries below cost.  This destroys American worker's and innovators ability to compete price wise with China products.  I am for figuring out how to combat this.

 

On the flip side, there will be inflation on the price of these products in the US.  With Solar, it will diminish it's ability to grow as a power source when competing with fossil fuels.  With Washers, this affects regular American's ability to purchase these products.

 

I'm going to take a "wait and see" attitude on this as to how this turns out.

 

 

[Danny Bateman]

A trade group that represents the solar industry hates the move. We'll have to wait & see if they slap us with reciprocal tariffs or the WTO rules it illegal, as the article states.

 

Also, if we actually do get in a trade war with China, everyone loses.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

16 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

A trade group that represents the solar industry hates the move. We'll have to wait & see if they slap us with reciprocal tariffs or the WTO rules it illegal, as the article states.

 

Also, if we actually do get in a trade war with China, everyone loses.

 

 

 

This is the part that needs to be concentrated on in my mind.

 

Quote

President Trump announced the first sweeping trade actions of his administration, enacting tariffs on solar panels and components (as well as washing machines) from nearly every country around the world. Even though Trump was right to blame Chinese government subsidies to its solar manufacturers for bankrupting U.S. solar producers, his "America First" tariffs are a decade too late to matter.

 

What should have been done a decade ago?  Why is our tariff's potentially illegal at the WTO but China's actions 10 years ago aren't?

[Danny Bateman]

I've seen a lot of (correct) derision of the Chinese online, but nobody seems to know what to do about it. Mostly I just see people point out the bolded & then cheer the tariffs.

 

That generally fits with Trump's mindset though. He seems like he's stuck in the "good old days" mindset of how to juice the economy - cut taxes, give total freedom to all energy sources (with a special reliance on fossil fuels), try to restore manufacturing, etc.

 

The problem is it isn't the 1950s anymore. Or even Reagan's 1980s, for that matter. How do we continue to push our economy forward in 2018? And what are the right moves to address China?

 

I don't think Trump or really anyone in his administration is well-equipped to answer those questions.

[Danny Bateman]

It appears backing out of the TPP didn't have much of an effect on the rest of the countries involved.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

3 hours ago, dudeguyy said:

I've seen a lot of (correct) derision of the Chinese online, but nobody seems to know what to do about it. Mostly I just see people point out the bolded & then cheer the tariffs.

 

That generally fits with Trump's mindset though. He seems like he's stuck in the "good old days" mindset of how to juice the economy - cut taxes, give total freedom to all energy sources (with a special reliance on fossil fuels), try to restore manufacturing, etc.

 

The problem is it isn't the 1950s anymore. Or even Reagan's 1980s, for that matter. How do we continue to push our economy forward in 2018? And what are the right moves to address China?

 

I don't think Trump or really anyone in his administration is well-equipped to answer those questions.

 

Trump's an idiot but, he wasn't President 10 years ago when something could have been done about this.  My question really doesn't have anything to do with Trump.  What should the US be doing to deal with China destroying American industries like this?

This was a new industry that could have taken off and done great things here.  China easily took that and crushed it.

 

Are you willing to just sit back and say....Well, that's an old school problem when we have new industries popping up in the future?

[Danny Bateman]

12 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Trump's an idiot but, he wasn't President 10 years ago when something could have been done about this.  My question really doesn't have anything to do with Trump.  What should the US be doing to deal with China destroying American industries like this?

This was a new industry that could have taken off and done great things here.  China easily took that and crushed it.

 

Are you willing to just sit back and say....Well, that's an old school problem when we have new industries popping up in the future?

 

I mean, if the end results are worse from trying to deal with it by imposing tariffs than by doing nothing and focusing on other problems... then yes.

 

If it were me, I wouldn't be willing to make self-defeating moves in order to make a point.

 

I share your sentiments in the bold. I don't think tariffs are the answer. What ELSE can we do to get a leg up on China?

 

Also, what else should we be focusing on other than the old school industries?

 

Here's an interesting piece I read earlier detailing where we're at:

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

9 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

Also, what else should we be focusing on other than the old school industries?

Solar is now an "old school industry"?

[Danny Bateman]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Solar is now an "old school industry"?

 

Solar excluded, I was referring to Trump's broader focus on fossil fuels & manufacturing as drivers of the economy.

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

 

Solar excluded, I was referring to Trump's broader focus on fossil fuels & manufacturing as drivers of the economy.

Manufacturing is a driver of the economy.  We are talking about solar "manufacturing".  It's not some strange part of the economy that is different than other "manufacturing jobs".  Other industries like this will pop up and China will do what it can to destroy it in the US.

 

Reality is, we need manufacturing.  There are flat out some people who are not going to be in technology jobs.  A certain portion of our population needs manufacturing jobs to support themselves.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by BigRedBuster

[Danny Bateman]

I don't think that we don't need manufacturing. But the industry is shrinking, largely as a result of globalization & automation, and expecting some renaissance in American manufacturing is unrealistic. It may not be what people want to hear, but I don't think attempting to revive the kind of manufacturing the U.S. used to have is the best way to build our economy long-term for the benefit of everyone involved.

 

Here's a long thread with a ton of info - but chiefly to point out that they think this is a bad move for the solar industry overall. They claim it could reduce solar jobs by up to 34%.

 

 

Here is an informative Reddit post & corresponding story for how this will affect the industry as a whole. The important bit is there are much more jobs in the U.S. for solar installation than there are in solar manufacturing, & the former will be hurt by these tariffs.

 

Summary: Only 2,000 American jobs are actually manufacturing the components affected specifically by these tariffs. But the tariffs themselves aren't large enough to keep those foreign-owned manufacturers here in business, and they will make the components more expensive:

 

Quote

“While tariffs in this case will not create adequate cell or module manufacturing to meet U.S. demand, or keep foreign-owned Suniva and SolarWorld afloat, they will create a crisis in a part of our economy that has been thriving, which will ultimately cost tens of thousands of hard-working, blue-collar Americans their jobs,” said Abigail Ross Hopper, SEIA’s President and CEO.

 

Their ultimate conclusion? "This will slow but not stop the American solar industry. This seems like a net negative move to me.

Edited January 23, 2018 by dudeguyy

[Danny Bateman]

Also here is an Energy Employment Report from the DoE from January of last year that shows that solar construction & installation employ roughly twice as many workers in the U.S. than solar manufacturing.