DevoHusker Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 59 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: I think this vote was bad. No matter who was voting against it. I think that, as currently utilized, FISA was bad because it allowed for US citizens to be surveilled without a warrant. Foreign nationals/citizens on foreign soil suspects of crimes should be treated differently than US citizens on our own soil. I am not sure if that is what the no vote was trying to fix? I kind of think that's the case since every single D voted no. 1 1 Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 9 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: I think that, as currently utilized, FISA was bad because it allowed for US citizens to be surveilled without a warrant. Foreign nationals/citizens on foreign soil suspects of crimes should be treated differently than US citizens on our own soil. I am not sure if that is what the no vote was trying to fix? I kind of think that's the case since every single D voted no. This. FISA needs to be fixed so they can’t spy on our own people. This is why dems voted against it. The Rs that voted against it did so because orange man bad told them to. There is a very distinct difference here. One party is trying to do what is right and the other party is ignoring their constituents and doing the bidding of one man. Somebody was poo pooing the idea Trump would become a dictator. Well, he already is one for republicans. 2 1 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 30 minutes ago, JJ Husker said: This. FISA needs to be fixed so they can’t spy on our own people. This is why dems voted against it. The Rs that voted against it did so because orange man bad told them to. There is a very distinct difference here. One party is trying to do what is right and the other party is ignoring their constituents and doing the bidding of one man. Somebody was poo pooing the idea Trump would become a dictator. Well, he already is one for republicans. https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4588868-jeffries-johnson-fisa-impasse/amp/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/house-fisa-bill-blocked-conservatives/ 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 58 minutes ago, JJ Husker said: This. FISA needs to be fixed so they can’t spy on our own people. This is why dems voted against it. The Rs that voted against it did so because orange man bad told them to. There is a very distinct difference here. One party is trying to do what is right and the other party is ignoring their constituents and doing the bidding of one man. Somebody was poo pooing the idea Trump would become a dictator. Well, he already is one for republicans. Then change it and fix it instead of just proclaiming all of FISA is bad and get rid of it. It's an example of a political hot button issue causing them to do this instead of actually doing their jobs and fixing it. 1 2 Link to comment
knapplc Posted April 12 Author Share Posted April 12 1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said: Then change it and fix it instead of just proclaiming all of FISA is bad and get rid of it. Exactly. They don't want FISA because they're getting caught by FISA. This isn't so much a citizen's rights issue (although authoritarians could use it against citizens, which is obviously a concern) as much as it's politicians upset they're being watched while working with foreign powers. 1 2 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 13 minutes ago, knapplc said: Exactly. They don't want FISA because they're getting caught by FISA. This isn't so much a citizen's rights issue (although authoritarians could use it against citizens, which is obviously a concern) as much as it's politicians upset they're being watched while working with foreign powers. That sure is what it seems like to me. OK, if FISA is being used to randomly pick out US citizens and spying on them without a warrant, then I can see how that's bad and shouldn't happen. However, let's say FISA is used to spy on some Russians in the US. During that, the surveillance reveals that these Russians were having secret discussions/meetings/phone calls...etc with certain US governmental people....I don't have a problem with those US officials falling into the surveillance...while they are monitoring the Russians. Now, then if they want to surveil those officials above and beyond activities not tied to those Russians, then they should have a warrant. I guess if I was an elected official, I would just always assume my relationships and discussions with foreign actors (especially ones from a country that is hostile to us) is going to be monitored and conduct business accordingly. Honestly, I think intelligence community isn't doing their job unless they are....if there's reason for suspicion. And, sorry, if you're an elected official and you're having secret meetings with Russians and you get get watched.....that's on you....stop having the secret meetings that you're not willing to tell anyone about. 2 2 Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 54 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Then change it and fix it instead of just proclaiming all of FISA is bad and get rid of it. It's an example of a political hot button issue causing them to do this instead of actually doing their jobs and fixing it. Exactly. But I have absolutely no hope of any of them doing their job or fixing jack s#!t. The other reason, dems voted against it, is simply because it was something the repubs proposed. Maybe a pretty good starting point to oppose anything they want but a helluva way to govern. Personally, I don’t have any problem with US citizens, that happen to be out of country, being surveilled when indications arise that need to be surveilled. If Trump doesn’t like it, it can’t be all bad. 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 4 minutes ago, JJ Husker said: Exactly. But I have absolutely no hope of any of them doing their job or fixing jack s#!t. The other reason, dems voted against it, is simply because it was something the repubs proposed. Maybe a pretty good starting point to oppose anything they want but a helluva way to govern. Personally, I don’t have any problem with US citizens, that happen to be out of country, being surveilled when indications arise that need to be surveilled. If Trump doesn’t like it, it can’t be all bad. Agree. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Well....then voters need to make a statement on this in November. Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 9 minutes ago, JJ Husker said: Exactly. But I have absolutely no hope of any of them doing their job or fixing jack s#!t. The other reason, dems voted against it, is simply because it was something the repubs proposed. Maybe a pretty good starting point to oppose anything they want but a helluva way to govern. Personally, I don’t have any problem with US citizens, that happen to be out of country, being surveilled when indications arise that need to be surveilled. If Trump doesn’t like it, it can’t be all bad. I am having a difficult time finding hard numbers. Of course it is secretive, because of the civil liberties violation aspect, but I am seeing everything from 200k a year to an astonishing 3.4 million warrants a year of US citizens' data...all without a warrant. 1 Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 5 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Well....then voters need to make a statement on this in November. Who is going to do something about it? Serious question. The people voting for Trump and people like MTG, Gaetz etc. want Trump running the actual government. Shadow government? Pffft, they want to make it the actual government with no checks and balances. 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 4 minutes ago, JJ Husker said: Who is going to do something about it? Serious question. The people voting for Trump and people like MTG, Gaetz etc. want Trump running the actual government. Shadow government? Pffft, they want to make it the actual government with no checks and balances. I agree. I have very little hope in that happening. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 3 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: I am having a difficult time finding hard numbers. Of course it is secretive, because of the civil liberties violation aspect, but I am seeing everything from 200k a year to an astonishing 3.4 million warrants a year of US citizens' data...all without a warrant. If it is the correct 3.4M people, for the right reasons, then good. I’m sort of serious. Ya know, I have zero concern about being surveilled because I’m not doing anything wrong. I am not worried about whatever they may find. But yeah it would be a problem if it were somebody like Trump doing it for the wrong reasons. So yeah, a government spying on it’s own people is a bad thing……until they give them a good, legitimate reason to be in those crosshairs. 1 1 Link to comment
funhusker Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 47 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Well....then voters need to make a statement on this in November. I would hope that a Trump defeat in November would allow these idiots to take of the chains. But sadly I think Trump will be so bitter that he will hold his base as hostages and basically govern the GOP by telling his followers who to vote for... 1 Link to comment
teachercd Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 2 minutes ago, funhusker said: I would hope that a Trump defeat in November would allow these idiots to take of the chains. But sadly I think Trump will be so bitter that he will hold his base as hostages and basically govern the GOP by telling his followers who to vote for... I was thinking about this as well. I hope the defeat is just the end of trump and not him being like "Well, we are getting ready to run again in 28" Link to comment
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