Hillary and the Hijacking of the Democrat Party

[Danny Bateman]

12 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Yes, except I voted for Hillary in 2016. She was the lesser of two evils, but still an unworthy candidate.  I would prefer never to hear the name Clinton again.

 

Well, you'll get no argument from me. I wish we could be kicking around all the stuff Clinton was screwing up right now instead of the dumpster fire we have currently. But the gridlock in Washington would be even worse.

 

I AM looking forward to some fresh faces being thrust forward instead of the same old ones, though.

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

 

Well played my good fellow.

 

 

[TGHusker]

I just saw this article and was about to post it to the Dem Rebuild thread and then I saw Knapp's thread.   Good OP and interesting article.  It is apparent that the Dems have deeper and graver problems than what I thought.  It seems whatever the Clinton's touch it turns into a controversy.  The Dems would be well advised to start over wt a clean slate of leaders who have no connections to the Clintons.  They need young, visionary leaders and cut the cord to the past.  If they want to go Bernie's way as far as policy - fine - but find younger people than he and Warren to express that vision.  If they want to return to a more moderate approach (which in today's climate would be best) I think they could draw from disenfranchised Republicans and expand their appeal.  The Repub party is going towards a total dumpster fire if they retain loyalty to Trump and more importantly towards the Trump style of politics.   The party that can capture the broad middle - center right to center left with young visionary leadership will be the most attractive to most Americans I believe. 

I would think a Dem ticket of Sen Booker (NJ) and Sen Harris (Ca) would be unbeatable if running against Trump.  (Yes I know they said that about Clinton but Trump has proven that he isn't presidential material)

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

A couple friends of mine joined a Facebook group named something like "Democrats United for a Better America." They jumped into the conversation, only to find that any discussion of Bernie Sanders was to be met with anger and derision. These are smart guys and lifelong Democrats who know their way around internet flame wars, and within mere hours they found themselves banned from the site. A day later the site itself had been put on hold. 

 

I'm guessing it was this rigid sense of entitlement among Hillary supporters, and a preference for political gamesmanship over governance, that kept a lot of target voters away from the polls in droves.

 

And at this point it is utterly ludicrous and largely suicidal to alienate the 45% of your most energized registered voters, especially when you don't disagree on the issues they are advancing.

[Danny Bateman]

13 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

A couple friends of mine joined a Facebook group named something like "Democrats United for a Better America." They jumped into the conversation, only to find that any discussion of Bernie Sanders was to be met with anger and derision. These are smart guys and lifelong Democrats who know their way around internet flame wars, and within mere hours they found themselves banned from the site. A day later the site itself had been put on hold. 

 

I'm guessing it was this rigid sense of entitlement among Hillary supporters, and a preference for political gamesmanship over governance, that kept a lot of target voters away from the polls in droves.

 

And at this point it is utterly ludicrous and largely suicidal to alienate the 45% of your most energized registered voters, especially when you don't disagree on the issues they are advancing.

 

The henpecking & barely veiled shots back and forth between the Bernie & Hillary factions make no sense to me. I'm guessing it's tribalism even within the party, kind of in the same way the Tea Party takes shot at moderate Establishment Republicans and vice versa. But when you're out of power, why pick that fight? Colors run deep I guess... People still salty about one thing or another.

 

It did go both ways. I know a lot of the Bernie folks I communicated with were utterly disdainful & critical of those of us who didn't get super revved up by him. I was told by lots of folks that I wasn't a "real liberal" merely because I preferred someone who could articulate their plans better and had actual plans to accomplish them.

 

Regardless, I just hope the American left gets its sh*t together, because in our political system operates best when it has two healthy parties opposing each other in different realms and proposing different solutions to common problems. But obviously, the left is still somewhat fractured at the moment, and the GOP is rapidly becoming the party of Trump, which is not something I consider healthy.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by dudeguyy

[knapplc]

Part of the animosity toward Bernie stems from the fact that he is not a Democrat.  I know people who were very much offended by Bernie running as a Democrat, and I know Bernie supporters who openly talked about the fact that he wasn't a Democrat but had to run on a major-party ticket or he'd never make it in the election. 

[RedDenver]

8 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

It did go both ways. I know a lot of the Bernie folks I communicated with were utterly disdainful & critical of those of us who didn't get super revved up by him. I was told by lots of folks that I wasn't a "real liberal" merely because I preferred someone who could articulate their plans better and had actual plans to accomplish them.

That's funny. I was called a "fake liberal" for supporting Bernie instead of Hillary because Bernie wasn't a "real Democrat". That person got extra made when I told him that was a selling point.

 

EDIT: And knapplc making a similar point while I was posting

Edited November 2, 2017 by RedDenver

[Danny Bateman]

It kind of is what it is, isn't it? I feel like both sides have some legit reason to be a bit aggrieved. Obviously people who identified as Democrats called Bernie a fake Dem and those who identified with true liberal (leftist) policies felt Hillary was a fake progressive.

 

But I certainly would've voted for Bernie in the general. The level of animosity with some folks who would stay home & cut off their nose to spite the face was silly, IMO. Never understand the Hillary primary voters that wouldn't vote for Bernie in a general.

 

I wish they'd just bury the hatchet and start looking forward. A lot of folks online just keep running with it, though...

[Guy Chamberlin]

If you were a Bernie supporter who refused to vote for Hillary in the general election, you were being a d******d and ignoring the fervent wishes of Bernie himself.

 

I don't believe there were a significant number of these people, and I'm thinking they came from the non-voter camp in the first place,

 

On the other side, of course, you have the entire Republican machine lined up against Donald Trump from the beginning, the middle, and right up to the very end when the Kochs and Mercers of the world backed the only horse left in the race. They still dislike and mistrust him, but can't believe the s#!t they're getting away with having Trump in office. 

[RedDenver]

10 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

If you were a Bernie supporter who refused to vote for Hillary in the general election, you were being a d******d and ignoring the fervent wishes of Bernie himself.

 

I don't believe there were a significant number of these people, and I'm thinking they came from the non-voter camp in the first place,

 

On the other side, of course, you have the entire Republican machine lined up against Donald Trump from the beginning, the middle, and right up to the very end when the Kochs and Mercers of the world backed the only horse left in the race. They still dislike and mistrust him, but can't believe the s#!t they're getting away with having Trump in office. 

We've talked about reasons for being a Bernie supporter and not voting for Hillary before, so I won't rehash them here, but there are legitimate reasons to do that. However, if you supported Bernie and didn't vote for Hillary out of spite, then I agree.

[BigRedBuster]

43 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

I was told by lots of folks that I wasn't a "real liberal"

 

Welcome to my world.  I'm supposedly not a true conservative because I don't like Trump.

[Guy Chamberlin]

12 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Welcome to my world.  I'm supposedly not a true conservative because I don't like Trump.

 

It mystifies me how many of my Nebraska friends have solidified into Trump loyalists.

 

Or maybe it's the fact that Trump so infuriates liberals, which appears to be 90% of the political equation.

 

But all those years of Nebraskans decrying "New York values," and elitists screwing the common man and suddenly they're all in with the Manhattan billionaire with a long history of defrauding blue collar contractors, no human understanding of the common man, a draft-dodger who mocked a prisoner of war, and purveyor of some of the most ridiculously unfeasible campaign promises in modern times.

 

Nebraskans used to have pretty good bulls#!t detectors, but it seems like they turned them off for this guy. 

[BigRedBuster]

11 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

It mystifies me how many of my Nebraska friends have solidified into Trump loyalists.

 

Or maybe it's the fact that Trump so infuriates liberals, which appears to be 90% of the political equation.

 

But all those years of Nebraskans decrying "New York values," and elitists screwing the common man and suddenly they're all in with the Manhattan billionaire with a long history of defrauding blue collar contractors, no human understanding of the common man, a draft-dodger who mocked a prisoner of war, and purveyor of some of the most ridiculously unfeasible campaign promises in modern times.

 

Nebraskans used to have pretty good bulls#!t detectors, but it seems like they turned them off for this guy. 

 

It absolutely blows my mind.  

 

This thread is about Hillary and the DNC.  Otherwise I would list some of the idiotic statements I have heard recently.

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Welcome to my world.  I'm supposedly not a true conservative because I don't like Trump.

 

'Tis a world we share, my friend.

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by B.B. Hemingway

[RedDenver]

I posted this in the Dems Rebuild thread but applies here too: