Football and Militarism

[adc7236]

1 hour ago, zoogs said:

 

One way of dealing with a racist verse in the national anthem's song is to avoid singing it, while continuing to lionize its author as a real American Patriot and to glorify that time he put these words, including the third verse, to paper.

 

Another way is to choose something else as our national emblem, because our choice reflects who we are and what we stand for. There's a reasonable debate to be had here.

 

@Dewiz, I think some of us prefer to live our lives with our eyes open, instead of reflexively clinging to every tradition and insisting on its merits while rejecting all forms of reflection. I was taught this crazy idea growing up that this capacity for introspection -- and this commitment to the values we profess -- were the kinds of things that made America great.

 

Perhaps there there are many reasonable debates to be had.  However, they need to be had be reasonable people.  Unfortunately, there are far too many that are bringing these historical "offenses"  to light, that have no interest in being reasonable.  A throw out the baby with bath water mentality if you will.  I do not subscribe to the "you must think like me and agree with me" mentality that is invading our society.  I want reasonable discussions with those that are wiling to listen, but usually lashing out and violence seems to be the first steps.  Why does everything have to be about choosing a side now?  Most likely because people are losing their ability to be reasonable and engage in honest communication.  

[VectorVictor]

1 hour ago, Dewiz said:

Are people seriously complaining about singing the National Anthem at sporting events? GOOD GOD your lives must be pathetic. How does this effect your life in any shape or form?

 

Can the mods move this to the Politic forums?

 

Are people seriously complaining about minorities peacefully protesting the poor treatment of their community by law enforcement and the government through kneeling during a song that admonishes slaves for joining the British during the war of 1812 because the British promised slaves freedom? GOOD GOD your lives must be pathetic. How does this affect your life in any shape or form?

Can the mods move this to the Politics forum?

[adc7236]

52 minutes ago, VectorVictor said:

 

Are people seriously complaining about minorities peacefully protesting the poor treatment of their community by law enforcement and the government through kneeling during a song that admonishes slaves for joining the British during the war of 1812 because the British promised slaves freedom? GOOD GOD your lives must be pathetic. How does this affect your life in any shape or form?

Can the mods move this to the Politics forum?

 

Way to lash out.  

 

Zoogs; this is exactly what I mean. 

[RedDenver]

14 minutes ago, adc7236 said:

 

Way to lash out.  

 

Zoogs; this is exactly what I mean. 

Did you read the post that was in response to?

[adc7236]

6 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Did you read the post that was in response to?

Yes, I did, so I do understand why you asked.  It was the most recent example.

[Fru]

I wish the crowd that is so upset about the kneel being anti-military (it's not), would be equally upset about our President who attacks POW's, war widows and Gold Star families. 

[Mavric]

Civil discourse is fine.

 

Cheap shots and personal attacks are not.

[RedDenver]

34 minutes ago, adc7236 said:

Yes, I did, so I do understand why you asked.  It was the most recent example.

I see.

[adc7236]

10 minutes ago, Fru said:

I wish the crowd that is so upset about the kneel being anti-military (it's not), would be equally upset about our President who attacks POW's, war widows and Gold Star families. 

I am not sure you fully understand why people are upset at the kneeling.  Maybe I don't, who knows?  Many have zero problem with protesting and actually support it.  Its the manner in which they have chosen to do it they makes people upset.  Many believe in the tradition of standing for the anthem as way of showing respect for our country and the sacrifices made.  

 

As an example to try and make my point......most consider weddings to be sacred and a cherished event.  If I were to go into your wedding and kneel or protest in someway, does it make it okay?  If I just  say "it is not meant to be disrespectful", does that mean the wedding was not some how effected and tarnished?  I think respecting the players right to protest but asking them to find another way besides something that people cherish is a good middle ground/compromise.  By kneeling during the anthem, it all comes across as my beliefs are more important than yours. 

 

We don't all have to think alike, but we all must find ways to effectively communicate and compromise if we are going to have a functioning society.

[Fru]

1 minute ago, adc7236 said:

I am not sure you fully understand why people are upset at the kneeling.  Maybe I don't, who knows?  Many have zero problem with protesting and actually support it.  Its the manner in which they have chosen to do it they makes people upset.  Many believe in the tradition of standing for the anthem as way of showing respect for our country and the sacrifices made.  

 

As an example to try and make my point......most consider weddings to be sacred and a cherished event.  If I were to go into your wedding and kneel or protest in someway, does it make it okay?  If I just  say "it is not meant to be disrespectful", does that mean the wedding was not some how effected and tarnished?  I think respecting the players right to protest but asking them to find another way besides something that people cherish is a good middle ground/compromise.  By kneeling during the anthem, it all comes across as my beliefs are more important than yours. 

 

We don't all have to think alike, but we all must find ways to effectively communicate and compromise if we are going to have a functioning society.

 

I don't think you understood the point of my post about the cognitive dissonance of the folks who lose their proverbial minds over kneeling during the anthem and claim it is an insult to the military will then turn around and support a President who attacks POW's, War Widows and Gold Star families.

 

Kneeling in solidarity with victims of racism = insult to military

 

President attacking military members and families = Just fine. 

 

The kneel is to bring awareness about institutional racism, like Betty Shelby for example. She shoots and kills an unarmed black man who was having car problems. She gets off on the charges and has that fatal shooting removed from her record. That's why they're kneeling. Or the reaction from the fire chief who called Mike Tomlin "A no good N*****."  

 

A protest isn't supposed to make you feel warm and fuzzy inside. It's a first amendment right, and you either believe in it implicitly or you don't. 

 

Your example makes no sense. 

[HuskerPowerVA]

I am only posting once here and won't respond to whatever is written.  I am going to ramble so be forewarned. 

 

Actually the Star Spangled Banner was not our National Anthem until much later in our History.  I don't remember when it became official, but I know it did become very popular to the Union troops during the Civil War. You know, the guys who fought and died to end slavery.  My great, great, great grandfather was one of them and he was in fact (documented) very anti-slavery.  He was shot in four separate battles (damn tough) and finally succumbed to it. I think honoring such folks is important, but you don't have to and that's what makes a free country great.  It remains a fact that protesting social injustice, regardless of that means to the individual, will not be as well received during the Anthem as it would in other ways.  Anyway...

 

I have been to nations such as East Germany, China, Saudi Arabia that don't give you an option, but to publicly support the state without very violent consequences.  Until you are there, I guarantee you that don't really know the difference.  I have had a relative fight in combat in every single war since then, including very recently. Many of them did not make it back. A LONG history as a Gold Star family.  I can tell you the current President is not the only Commander in Chief in recent history to do some really insulting things to Gold Star families.  The news reporting has changed to all one way or the other.  

 

I have been in combat myself and will never mind seeing our Anthem at sporting events or the colors presented  The argument made that a lot of people don't pay attention so it is less important fails to hold water with me.  I see people using their phones during every act in society, to include while driving and that doesn't mean paying attention at the wheel is less important.  

 

Of course the military recruits at sporting events.  It is necessary to keep a volunteer military so there is not a draft.  I like that every person in the military signed up to be there.  Sporting events hits the demographic, a lot of young men and women.  I think that is a lot more important than selling Pepsi or insurance. 

 

Ultimately this entire thread is silly because in my experience nobody has ever changed their mind from postings on social media.  Kind of nice that we can disagree.  I have personally been in Africa where kids had their heads cut off because they disagreed with gifts of food and clothing.  The male kids who were given shoes had their heads resting on the top of the shoes they received to go to school on the road leading to the village.  The little girls were never found because they wanted to go to school. A little perspective of very serious oppression not that long ago.  I came back from the unit I was in and became a strength coach.  Iron isn't political and you can either lift it or not.  One of the few things in the world without grey areas so perhaps that is what drew me to it.  

 

However, I have never met a combat veteran (yes indulging me) who did not appreciate being thanked and didn't take the National Anthem as a symbol of pride and importance.  Ultimately when you are getting shot at you become more patriotic to the flag.  If you don't like, please go get a Pepsi or go on your phone.  A lot of people died for that freedom. 

[adc7236]

22 minutes ago, Fru said:

 

I don't think you understood the point of my post about the cognitive dissonance of the folks who lose their proverbial minds over kneeling during the anthem and claim it is an insult to the military will then turn around and support a President who attacks POW's, War Widows and Gold Star families.

 

Kneeling in solidarity with victims of racism = insult to military

 

President attacking military members and families = Just fine. 

 

The kneel is to bring awareness about institutional racism, like Betty Shelby for example. She shoots and kills an unarmed black man who was having car problems. She gets off on the charges and has that fatal shooting removed from her record. That's why they're kneeling. Or the reaction from the fire chief who called Mike Tomlin "A no good N*****."  

 

A protest isn't supposed to make you feel warm and fuzzy inside. It's a first amendment right, and you either believe in it implicitly or you don't. 

 

Your example makes no sense. 

 

I chose to address only the first part of your statement that dealt with kneeling and not the rest.  I should have bolded that to be more clear. 

 

I am done with this thread now.

[Fru]

4 minutes ago, adc7236 said:

 

I chose to address only the first part of your statement that dealt with kneeling and not the rest.  I should have bolded that to be more clear. 

 

I am done with this thread now.

 

[Nebfanatic]

First of all, this isn't just a Veterans Day thing. They appreciate some members of the service every game I have been to it seems like. It's a little much. I never really understood doing the anthem either. I've never heard the anthem played before any other entertainment event such as a movie or concert. Why sporting events? 

 

As far as the kneeling issue goes, some people should do some research on what is respectful and what is disrespectful when it comes to our flag. Nowhere is there anything that states we always need to stand for the anthem, that is something an authoritarian state would do. All of those cool flag displays the DoD does on NFL fields is actually explicitly stated as disrespectful to the flag. The flag is not to be presented horizontally like that so I think everyone is getting a little confused on what is and what is not respectful. A military man on our own Husker squad supports the kneeling and most military I've heard from also supports the protests. The only ones with their panty in a bunch are those who don't want POCs to protest anywhere plain and simple.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Nebfanatic

[VectorVictor]

BTW, glad to see that this was moved to the Politics tab.