The Democrat Utopia

[Scarlet]

17 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

And only a small percentage of people would have adverse side effects from taking said vaccine to begin with, but screw them right!  Mandate for all!

 

(Except White House staff, Congress, Judges, Phizer employees, Moderna employees, J&J employees, migrant immigrants and illegal aliens)

Well speaking of strawmen.  You insinuated the vaccinated spread covid, at the same rate as the unvaccinated.  That's false.  Then you come back with the "small percentage of those getting the vaccination have an adverse reaction, screw them" take.  How are these even connected? 

 

[Redux]

13 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

Well speaking of strawmen.  You insinuated the vaccinated spread covid, at the same rate as the unvaccinated.  That's false.

 

No, it's not.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html#:~:text=• Fully vaccinated people with,the virus to others.

 

35 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

CDC LINK

 

 

 

 

COVID-19 transmission among the fully vaccinated is rare, but possible, experts say. Here's why.

 

 

 

 

 

Study ties COVID vaccines to lower transmission rates

 

 

 

 

Now do the statistics for vaccine related complications 

[BigRedBuster]

11 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

 

 

 

Now do the statistics for vaccine related complications 

What?

 

You said vaccinated people spread it just like unvaccinated.  That is what the discussion was.  What are you even talking about now?

 

 

BTW....from your own link.

 

Quote

Unvaccinated people remain the greatest concern: The greatest risk of transmission is among unvaccinated people who are much more likely to get infected, and therefore transmit the virus. 

 

[Scarlet]

33 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

No, it's not.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html#:~:text=• Fully vaccinated people with,the virus to others.

 

 

Now do the statistics for vaccine related complications 

Quote

Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time: For prior variants, lower amounts of viral genetic material were found in samples taken from fully vaccinated people who had breakthrough infections than from unvaccinated people with COVID-19. For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people.

That's for breakthrough infections.  It is false that the vaccinated spread the virus as readily as the unvaccinated.

 

I'm still not sure why you're dangling adverse reactions to vaccines to this but go on.  

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

I'm still not sure why you're dangling adverse reactions to vaccines to this but go on.  

Didn't you hear?  It changes our DNA.

[commando]

19 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

No, it's not.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html#:~:text=• Fully vaccinated people with,the virus to others.

 

if you read what you linked you would know that you owned yourself.  

[Redux]

49 minutes ago, commando said:

if you read what you linked you would know that you owned yourself.  

 

You said vaccinated people can't spread the virus, you said that was false.  One simple click determined your statement as false.  Now you want to pretend some more.

[commando]

3 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

You said vaccinated people can't spread the virus, you said that was false.  One simple click determined your statement as false.  Now you want to pretend some more.

please show where i said what you are claiming i said.  i will wait.

[Redux]

1 hour ago, commando said:

please show where i said what you are claiming i said.  i will wait.

 

I apologize, I was reading multiple posts.  Scarlet made the claim, not you.  (Although at a glance you share strikingly similar avatars)

 

And further rebuttal, I never insinuated the spread rate was the same (not intentionally anyway) and I missed where Scarlet added that particular caveat.

 

Yes thus far the vaccine does seemingly result in less spreading than unvaccinated.  But it doesn't eliminate the spread or give immunity like some think (not pointing fingers).

 

Sincerely not trying to put words in mouths here.

[Scarlet]

4 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

I apologize, I was reading multiple posts.  Scarlet made the claim, not you.  (Although at a glance you share strikingly similar avatars)

 

And further rebuttal, I never insinuated the spread rate was the same (not intentionally anyway) and I missed where Scarlet added that particular caveat.

 

Yes thus far the vaccine does seemingly result in less spreading than unvaccinated.  But it doesn't eliminate the spread or give immunity like some think (not pointing fingers).

 

Sincerely not trying to put words in mouths here.

Ummm, please show where I said the vaccinated could not spread covid.  I'll wait.

[Redux]

4 hours ago, Scarlet said:

You insinuated the vaccinated spread covid, at the same rate as the unvaccinated.  That's false.

 Here 

 

And I never said it was at the same rate

[BigRedBuster]

19 minutes ago, Redux said:

 Here 

 

And I never said it was at the same rate

I said unvaccinated people are a risk to others. Meaning, more of a risk than vaccinated people.  You disagreed. That tells me you think they spread it at the same rate.  That’s false. 

[Scarlet]

6 hours ago, Redux said:

 

They are choosing not to and being forced to quit/be fired.  Not a choice.  How is it putting others at risk exactly?  It's putting themselves at risk, sure.  Not others, that's a fallacy.  The fully vaccinated and unvaccinated both spread the virus, so no it's not putting others at risk.

 

No employers should be put in that position or be at risk of being fined.  It's a complete infringement on freedom.

 

And that should be your choice free of pressure from the government.  If it's hurting the economy, so is forcing people out of jobs that refuse the vax.

 

5 hours ago, Scarlet said:

The fully vaccinated will carry viral loads roughly equal to the unvaccinated only in breakthrough cases.  So that percentage would spread the virus but it is only a small percentage of the fully vaccinated.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Redux said:

 

I apologize, I was reading multiple posts.  Scarlet made the claim, not you.  (Although at a glance you share strikingly similar avatars)

 

And further rebuttal, I never insinuated the spread rate was the same (not intentionally anyway) and I missed where Scarlet added that particular caveat.

 

Yes thus far the vaccine does seemingly result in less spreading than unvaccinated.  But it doesn't eliminate the spread or give immunity like some think (not pointing fingers).

 

Sincerely not trying to put words in mouths here.

 

26 minutes ago, Redux said:

 Here 

 

And I never said it was at the same rate

The unvaccinated spread the virus at a higher rate.  Your insinuation was that by not getting vaccinated one is not putting others at risk.  It's only a risk to the unvaccinated individual, not others.  That is false.  That was my only point.  Anything else your trying to build here is a strawman

 

There is a risk of killing someone if you choose to drive.  That's a risk we all accept and we can be as responsible about it as possible.  If you choose to drive drunk the risk is much greater and that choice is putting others at risk.  An irresponsible choice. Same with running around unvaccinated as can be seen by those states with low vaccination rates currently or recently having higher hospitalization and death rates.

 

 

 

 

 

[Redux]

I'm not going to continue arguing over semantics.  My initial point, which is verifiable, is that it can be spread vaxxed or not.  I will look over the difference though because that actually interests me.

 

It's a far greater risk to the individual than it is anyone else if they so choose to remain unvaccinated.  This is not false.  And if everyone is spreading it, vaxxed or not and regardless of severity, it remains more of an individual danger.  But certainly, show me the data that says otherwise, I'll look.

[Redux]

31 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I said unvaccinated people are a risk to others. Meaning, more of a risk than vaccinated people.  You disagreed. That tells me you think they spread it at the same rate.  That’s false. 

 

I do not think that and didn't say that.  This is my issue with the dog pile debates, it gets convoluted and things get misinterpreted.  I honestly wasn't trying to do that and was quite busy earlier when this all was exchanged.