mrandyk Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I do think that you can attribute some gains to the tax plan and removal of regulations. However, it's obscenely short-sighted to think that there are long term gains to be had from those actions. I can't wait to see the GOP blame the fallout from these actions on the Democrat in office in a few years. 2 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, mrandyk said: I do think that you can attribute some gains to the tax plan and removal of regulations. However, it's obscenely short-sighted to think that there are long term gains to be had from those actions. I can't wait to see the GOP blame the fallout from these actions on the Democrat in office in a few years. How people keep believing it is beyond me. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Moiraine said: How people keep believing it is beyond me. It's a hellish cycle where the most impressionable dupes always feel like they're winning. Edited February 3, 2018 by dudeguyy 2 Link to comment
mrandyk Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, dudeguyy said: It's a hellish cycle where the most impressionable dupes always feel like they're winning. I'd +1 this 45 times if I could. Maybe I'll make alt accounts just for P&R. 1 Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, mrandyk said: I'd +1 this 45 times if I could. Maybe I'll make alt accounts just for P&R. My name is dudeguyy, & I endorse this idea. Edited February 3, 2018 by dudeguyy Link to comment
Guy Chamberlin Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I have never been comfortable gauging economic success solely on the stock market, and most economists aren't either. While the flow of capital into entrepreneurial enterprise is great, that's not what it's about anymore. Instead of long-term investment it's short term gambling, where the institutional investors can get away with stuff the private dabblers and 401K crowd can't. The stock market loves layoffs, downsizing, out-sourcing, offshore accounts, and robots. It paints a very different picture than the jobs-loving stump speeches like to paint. When there's a correction, it will be the predictable result of Wall Street coddling under both Obama and Trump. Investors really did get excited about the likelihood of further deregulation and tax cuts under Trump, but the speculation that creates a 26,000 Dow isn't backed by actual money. or mathematics. If you took the true meaning of Conservatism to heart, it wouldn't abide much of anything going on. 5 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said: I have never been comfortable gauging economic success solely on the stock market, and most economists aren't either. While the flow of capital into entrepreneurial enterprise is great, that's not what it's about anymore. Instead of long-term investment it's short term gambling, where the institutional investors can get away with stuff the private dabblers and 401K crowd can't. The stock market loves layoffs, downsizing, out-sourcing, offshore accounts, and robots. It paints a very different picture than the jobs-loving stump speeches like to paint. When there's a correction, it will be the predictable result of Wall Street coddling under both Obama and Trump. Investors really did get excited about the likelihood of further deregulation and tax cuts under Trump, but the speculation that creates a 26,000 Dow isn't backed by actual money. or mathematics. If you took the true meaning of Conservatism to heart, it wouldn't abide much of anything going on. +1000 Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said: I have never been comfortable gauging economic success solely on the stock market, and most economists aren't either. While the flow of capital into entrepreneurial enterprise is great, that's not what it's about anymore. Instead of long-term investment it's short term gambling, where the institutional investors can get away with stuff the private dabblers and 401K crowd can't. The stock market loves layoffs, downsizing, out-sourcing, offshore accounts, and robots. It paints a very different picture than the jobs-loving stump speeches like to paint. When there's a correction, it will be the predictable result of Wall Street coddling under both Obama and Trump. Investors really did get excited about the likelihood of further deregulation and tax cuts under Trump, but the speculation that creates a 26,000 Dow isn't backed by actual money. or mathematics. If you took the true meaning of Conservatism to heart, it wouldn't abide much of anything going on. It's well-said thoughts like this that lead me to believe a progressive that is overtly hostile to Wall Street & business could succeed as a contrast to Trump in 2020. Stock market gains are awesome for the people with access to the capital to benefit from them. For the rest of us... 1 Link to comment
Guy Chamberlin Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I've got more in the stock market right now than I do liquid assets. I'm not crazy....I dig my portfolio getting bigger. But while I know in my heart and brain there's a big correction coming, I can't bring myself to sell at what may be the top or near top of the market. And with more than half my investments in IRA accounts, I really can't. Like everything else lately, I'm watching a slow ongoing train crash that I can't really stop. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said: I've got more in the stock market right now than I do liquid assets. I'm not crazy....I dig my portfolio getting bigger. But while I know in my heart and brain there's a big correction coming, I can't bring myself to sell at what may be the top or near top of the market. And with more than half my investments in IRA accounts, I really can't. Like everything else lately, I'm watching a slow ongoing train crash that I can't really stop. I've recently begun tucking away small amounts in ETFs & learning the basics of investing. I'm not enough of a naif to think Wall Street needs to crumble & we need to topple the bourgeoisie in order to make life right again. I merely think that type of rhetoric could be popular when 2020 rolls around. A bunch of people lined up under the MAGA flag & proudly donned their redcaps because Trump attacked the elites who have been ripping John Q. Public off for far too long. Then they elected him & he turned around and did the exact same thing he railed against. I do think a correction away from so much political power residing in the hands of the powerful few would be a gigantic positive. It's long overdue. 2 Link to comment
commando Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 could this news be why the market dropped so much this week? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/03/the-u-s-government-is-set-to-borrow-nearly-1-trillion-this-year/?utm_term=.794967c95b7d The U.S. government is set to borrow nearly $1 trillion this year, an 84 percent jump from last year The uptick in borrowing is yet another complication in the heated debates in Congress over whether to spend more money on infrastructure, the military, disaster relief and other domestic programs. The deficit is already up significantly, even before Congress allots more money to any of these areas. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) We're borrowing a sh** ton of money but lowered taxes. We so smart. Good thing all these mega corporations saving $ on their taxes are going to give us all these high wages so our taxes can pay back the debt. Edited February 4, 2018 by Moiraine 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 18 hours ago, Moiraine said: We're borrowing a sh** ton of money but lowered taxes. We so smart. Good thing all these mega corporations saving $ on their taxes are going to give us all these high wages so our taxes can pay back the debt. Ok.... that complaint is illogical. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Ok.... that complaint is illogical. Why would you make a statement like that without explaining it? You've been posting here a long time and know you're going to get asked. Now I have to try to understand why you're saying it. If it's because you agree with the Republican economic philosophy, no need to read the rest of this. I'm happy to agree to disagree. But if that's the case then you should've just said that. If that's not the case then I don't know why you're saying it's illogical. From my understanding GOP philosophy is that eventually tax revenues will increase because the tax breaks will lead companies to increasing salaries. And also because people will be spending more $ due to their tax relief which will also increase tax revenues. And because overall the economy will be better which will increase tax revenues. I find this all to be a load of nonsense. I have no idea what The Balance is (just found this now) but: Quote For example, Republican President Donald Trump proposed income tax cuts. He recommended capital gains and dividend tax cuts for everyone making less than $50,000 a year. He would lower the corporate tax rate. He advocated trickle-down economics when he said the cuts would eventually boost growth enough to make up for revenue loss. My "complaint" is that the bolded is stupid. Mega corporations invest their extra $, they don't give the extra $ to employees. Edited February 5, 2018 by Moiraine Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Moiraine said: Why would you make a statement like that without explaining it? You've been posting here a long time and know you're going to get asked. Now I have to try to understand why you're saying it. If it's because you agree with the Republican economic philosophy, no need to read the rest of this. I'm happy to agree to disagree. But if that's the case then you should've just said that. If that's not the case then I don't know why you're saying it's illogical. From my understanding GOP philosophy is that eventually tax revenues will increase because the tax breaks will lead companies to increasing salaries. And also because people will be spending more $ due to their tax relief which will also increase tax revenues. And because overall the economy will be better which will increase tax revenues. I find this all to be a load of nonsense. I have no idea what The Balance is (just found this now) but: My "complaint" is that the bolded is stupid. Mega corporations invest their extra $, they don't give the extra $ to employees. I’m at an airport loading my next plane. I’ll explain later. Edited February 5, 2018 by BigRedBuster Link to comment
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