Avengers 4: Endgame ***Speculation & Spoilers***

[Mavric]

7 hours ago, Enhance said:

The biggest criticism I've seen to this point is not so much criticism, but surprise, I guess? Rogers' personality throughout every single MCU movie was one of a passionate super soldier who always did the right thing, often to the detriment of himself and his relationships with others. (See Civil War). So, the selfish rationalization to spend an entirely new life with Peggy, one that is void of combat, saving the world, etc., just seemed totally out of character and didn't get a lot of set up. It violates everything we know about Cap. Like, while all sorts of bad things were happening in the last 70 years, domesti-Cap just stayed... at home? Raising a family? Not helping? Why? Is that because he knew his interference would disrupt how things went?

 

That said, his whole life was pretty selfless. Finally choosing to be selfish feels right for Cap, in my opinion. The dude earned it, both mentally and physically. Peggy was the love of his life and he spent literally a lifetime in perpetual heartbreak.

 

Yeah, there's a couple ways to look at it.  Can't argue with your point.  But there's also the argument that he'd put in his time, done what he could and deserves a "reward."

 

But the main reason they went with it was to complete the Tony Stark/Steve Rogers stories by crossing them up, as it were.  Tony was brash and selfish but ends up sacrificing himself to save the world.  Steve was the ultimate team player but ends up doing something he always wanted for himself in the end.  

 

Kind of a neat way to end their stories.

[Cdog923]

1 hour ago, Mavric said:

 

Yeah, there's a couple ways to look at it.  Can't argue with your point.  But there's also the argument that he'd put in his time, done what he could and deserves a "reward."

 

But the main reason they went with it was to complete the Tony Stark/Steve Rogers stories by crossing them up, as it were.  Tony was brash and selfish but ends up sacrificing himself to save the world.  Steve was the ultimate team player but ends up doing something he always wanted for himself in the end.  

 

Kind of a neat way to end their stories.

 

Their narrative arcs mirror each others in reverse; I love it. 

[RedDenver]

20 hours ago, Enhance said:

The biggest criticism I've seen to this point is not so much criticism, but surprise, I guess? Rogers' personality throughout every single MCU movie was one of a passionate super soldier who always did the right thing, often to the detriment of himself and his relationships with others. (See Civil War). So, the selfish rationalization to spend an entirely new life with Peggy, one that is void of combat, saving the world, etc., just seemed totally out of character and didn't get a lot of set up. It violates everything we know about Cap. Like, while all sorts of bad things were happening in the last 70 years, domesti-Cap just stayed... at home? Raising a family? Not helping? Why? Is that because he knew his interference would disrupt how things went?

There's nothing to tell us whether Rogers was involved or not because he was in a separate timeline. He and Peggy could have very well been very involved in events in their timeline.

[Enhance]

35 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

There's nothing to tell us whether Rogers was involved or not because he was in a separate timeline. He and Peggy could have very well been very involved in events in their timeline.

Do we know for certain that happened (honest question?) According to @Landlord, even the writers/directors can't agree on whether he stayed in the same timeline or went to an alternate one. My guess is he would've had to have gone to an alternate one but it's not very clear, and there are some fallacies with it too (i.e. Old Man Rogers wouldn't have had enough Pym particles to return home again after delivering his shield). So, this ends up suggesting he just grew old and then went to the park bench to wait for his friends in the same reality.

[RedDenver]

41 minutes ago, Enhance said:

Do we know for certain that happened (honest question?) According to @Landlord, even the writers/directors can't agree on whether he stayed in the same timeline or went to an alternate one. My guess is he would've had to have gone to an alternate one but it's not very clear, and there are some fallacies with it too (i.e. Old Man Rogers wouldn't have had enough Pym particles to return home again after delivering his shield). So, this ends up suggesting he just grew old and then went to the park bench to wait for his friends in the same reality.

He did have enough Pym particles as someone mentioned above. And based on the rules of splitting timelines instead of affecting the original timeline, Rogers could not have gone back into the same timeline he started in.

[Redux]

I think the point being missed is that he very well could have still been Captain America in the divergent timeline where he marries Peggy, then returns to original timeline as an old man to give Falcon the shield.

[cornhuskers4ever]

Crazy question, when Captain America brought back the Soul Stone, would he recognize it was Red Falcon?  Also, with the soul stone returned, would that be sacrifice enough for bringing back Black Widow?  I honestly don't know, since someone was giving back the stone. 

 

[Cdog923]

2 hours ago, cornhuskers4ever said:

Crazy question, when Captain America brought back the Soul Stone, would he recognize it was Red Falcon?  Also, with the soul stone returned, would that be sacrifice enough for bringing back Black Widow?  I honestly don't know, since someone was giving back the stone. 

 

 

It's outside the realm of the films, so I take it with some grains of salt, but the writers have come out and stated that Cap did indeed meet Red Skull when returning the Soul Stone, and there's no way of getting Widow back; Hulk even tried doing it when he used the Nano-Infinity Gauntlet and it didn't work. 

[Enhance]

5 hours ago, cornhuskers4ever said:

Crazy question, when Captain America brought back the Soul Stone, would he recognize it was Red Falcon?  Also, with the soul stone returned, would that be sacrifice enough for bringing back Black Widow?  I honestly don't know, since someone was giving back the stone. 

Just to add onto @Cdog923's post, I read a couple of other things related to this. First, the Red Skull guarding the Soul stone isn't really the same entity that fought Cap. This one has a sole purpose - to guard the Soul stone and impart the knowledge of how to get it upon those seeking it. It's possible he may not even remember what happened between he and Cap; or, if he does remember, he would treat it almost as if it happened in a different life or didn't happen at all, and is therefore irrelevant to the situation.

 

As for Black Widow, Gamora, and any other poor soul that has been sacrificed to obtain it, the 'contract' is binding. That person's life is traded in order to acquire the stone. In some ways, it's almost like the life powers the stone or becomes part of the stone. Returning it would simply mean another person needs to make a sacrifice in order to obtain it.

[cornhuskers4ever]

Good to know, thank you. 

 

[Mavric]

 

[suh_fan93]

22 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

 

Wow.  

 

 

[Mavric]

 

[Cdog923]

Word 'round the campfire is that Endgame will pass Avatar for the top grossing movie of all time this weekend.

[Redux]

18 hours ago, Cdog923 said:

Word 'round the campfire is that Endgame will pass Avatar for the top grossing movie of all time this weekend.

 

I really hope so, it's earned that.  A 3hr homage to a cinematic masterpiece that is the MCU.  I can't wait to get this thing on Blu Ray.