The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[TGHusker]

Below are several editorials written mostly at the end of March.  Each has a clip from the actual article. 

There is no way we can let the GOP or this charlatan in the WH get by with this in November. 

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/30/opinion/president-unfit-pandemic/?p1=Article_Inline_Text_Link

A president unfit for a pandemic

Much of the suffering and death coming was preventable. The president has blood on his hands.

By The Editorial Board,Updated March 30, 2020, 3:07 p.m

Quote

While the spread of the novel coronavirus has been aggressive around the world, much of the profound impact it will have here in the United States was preventable. As the American public braces itself for the worst of this crisis, it’s worth remembering that the reach of the virus here is not attributable to an act of God or a foreign invasion, but a colossal failure of leadership.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.html

 

 

Quote

The result was a lost month, when the world’s richest country — armed with some of the most highly trained scientists and infectious disease specialists — squandered its best chance of containing the virus’s spread. Instead, Americans were left largely blind to the scale of a looming public health catastrophe.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-lost-months-killing-us-011244950.html

Quote

 

Will President Trump escape accountability in November for the worst crisis leadership in American history? It depends on how strongly and cogently the rest of us frame the true historical record.

In his Feb. 5 State of the Union address, Trump said of the spreading coronavirus, “My administration will take all necessary steps to safeguard our citizens from this threat.” This did not happen. 

“Necessary steps” were not taken, “safeguards” were neglected. Tens if not hundreds of thousands of Americans will die unnecessarily as a direct result of the president’s negligence.

 

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/americas-coronavirus-response-is-a-man-made-disaster-and-that-man-is-donald-trump?via=rss&source=articles_fancylink

 

 

Quote

 

This Is a Man-Made Disaster, and That Man Is Donald Trump

 

WORSE AND WORSE

We have gone from the best-prepared country in the world last fall, to the country with the highest rate of spread of the virus in the world today

 

 

Quote

 

Thursday morning brought the news that U.S. jobless claims for last week were 3.3 million. Previous week? It was 281,000. What’s it going to be next week, and the week after that? And next Friday, April 3, we’ll get our first monthly jobs numbers since this was officially declared a pandemic on March 11. That should be fun.

We are approaching an economic death spiral here. March, April, and May, too, and if we don’t get our act together maybe June and July, are going to be economic disasters.

 

And Donald Trump wants to make it worse. He already has made it worse. Way, way worse than it needed to be. Imagine that he’d paid attention to the experts (I know, I know, but imagine) back in January. Trump brags about his China travel ban at the end of January, and yes, that was good, but imagine we’d started taking real safety measures, thinking about ventilators and PPE in February. Or imagine that we’d gone on lockdown a month before we did, or even two weeks in that time window when each week was crucial. Where might we be now?

We’d be a hell of a lot better off than we are today, that’s where. Maybe we’d even have started flattening the curve. Other societies managed to do that pretty quickly. But no, not us. Why? One reason and one reason only. What’s that reason? I’ll give you some hints. He said that it was totally under control. He said it was only 15 people who had it and it would soon be down to zero. He said—on Feb. 28, rather late in the game—that the whole thing was the Democrats’ “new hoax.” Enough hints?

Some people, in an excess of fair-mindedness, will say: But wait, this is a global pandemic; Trump didn’t create it. Of course he didn’t create it. So what? He had a job: Contain it. Make it cause the least amount of harm and death and disruption possible. Instead, he’s made it worse. And we ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

 

 

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

Excellent thread:

Especially this graph (although it should say the more you go to the right, the more dire the official situation is):

 

 

 

I didn't read your comment and just stared at that for awhile. Someone doesn't know their left from right.

[knapplc]

 

[commando]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

and 15% of bernie supporters are going to vote for trump if biden wins the primaries. 

[commando]

tough thread.  but worth the read

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 

I didn't read your comment and just stared at that for awhile. Someone doesn't know their left from right.

So, North Carolina is really in a s#!tty situation and they don't know it.

[TGHusker]

The way the admin is pushing hydroxychloroquine, it does make me wonder how may shares Trump owes of the company that produces it.  Maybe I'm all wrong and Trump pushes it for sincere reasons and hopes that it will work.... but call me skeptical. 

 

Trump playing the doctor on Saturday :

 

Quote

"What do you have to lose? Take it," the president said in a White House briefing on Saturday. "I really think they should take it. But it's their choice. And it's their doctor's choice or the doctors in the hospital. But hydroxychloroquine. Try it, if you'd like."

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-white-house-01306286-0bbc-4042-9bfe-890413c6220d.html

 

 

Quote

 

The White House coronavirus task force had its biggest fight yet on Saturday, pitting economic adviser Peter Navarro against infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci. At issue: How enthusiastically should the White House tout the prospects of an antimalarial drug to fight COVID-19?

Behind the scenes: This drama erupted into an epic Situation Room showdown. Trump's coronavirus task force gathered in the White House Situation Room on Saturday at about 1:30pm, according to four sources familiar with the conversation. Vice President Mike Pence sat at the head of the table.

• Numerous government officials were at the table, including Fauci, coronavirus response coordinator Deborah Birx, Jared Kushner, acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf, and Commissioner of Food and Drugs Stephen Hahn.
• Behind them sat staff, including Peter Navarro, tapped by Trump to compel private companies to meet the government's coronavirus needs under the Defense Production Act.

Toward the end of the meeting, Hahn began a discussion of the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, which Trump believes could be a "game-changer" against the coronavirus.

• Hahn gave an update about the drug and what he was seeing in different trials and real-world results.
• Then Navarro got up. He brought over a stack of folders and dropped them on the table. People started passing them around.
• "And the first words out of his mouth are that the studies that he's seen, I believe they're mostly overseas, show 'clear therapeutic efficacy,'" said a source familiar with the conversation. "Those are the exact words out of his mouth."

Navarro's comments set off a heated exchange about how the Trump administration and the president ought to talk about the malaria drug, which Fauci and other public health officials stress is unproven to combat COVID-19.

• Fauci pushed back against Navarro, saying that there was only anecdotal evidence that hydroxychloroquine works against the coronavirus.
• Researchers have said studies out of France and China are inadequate because they did not include control groups.
• Fauci and others have said much more data is needed to prove that hydroxychloroquine is effective against the coronavirus.
• As part of his role, Navarro has been trying to source hydroxychloroquine from around the world. He's also been trying to ensure that there are enough domestic production capabilities inside the U.S.

Fauci's mention of anecdotal evidence "just set Peter off," said one of the sources. Navarro pointed to the pile of folders on the desk, which included printouts of studies on hydroxychloroquine from around the world.

• Navarro said to Fauci, "That's science, not anecdote," said another of the sources.

Navarro started raising his voice, and at one point accused Fauci of objecting to Trump's travel restrictions, saying, "You were the one who early on objected to the travel restrictions with China," saying that travel restrictions don't work. (Navarro was one of the earliest to push the China travel ban.)

 

 

[commando]

2 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

Cool story bro.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/03/29/bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-trump-over-biden-poll/2936124001/

 

If former Vice President Joe Biden secures the Democratic presidential nomination, 15% of Sen. Bernie Sanders' supporters will vote for President Donald Trump's reelection, according to an ABC News/Washington Post poll. 

 

and

 

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

 

According to the analysis of the 2016 Cooperative Congressional Election Survey, fewer than 80 percent of those who voted for Sanders, an independent, in the Democratic primary did the same for Clinton when she faced off against Trump a few months later. What's more, 12 percent of those who backed Sanders actually cast a vote for Trump.

[commando]

2 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/03/29/bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-trump-over-biden-poll/2936124001/

 

Like I said, cool story.

 

Also, 10% of Biden voters would do the same if their candidate didn't win:  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/sanders-voters-helped-trump-win-white-house-could-they-do-n1145306

 

Also:

 

https://morningconsult.com/2020/03/17/sanders-voters-loyalty-2020/

 

So which is it?  7% or 15%?  Who's right?  Is it a narrative?

 

I don't know ANY Sanders supporters who will vote for Trump.  I've been to 5 different Sanders functions and met hundreds of people.  NONE said they would vote for Trump...they're disgusted by him.

12% last time....with polls showing between 7% and 15% this time.  so...maybe that 12% holds again?

[Danny Bateman]

6 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

The way the admin is pushing hydroxychloroquine, it does make me wonder how may shares Trump owes of the company that produces it.  Maybe I'm all wrong and Trump pushes it for sincere reasons and hopes that it will work.... but call me skeptical. 

 

Trump playing the doctor on Saturday :

 

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-white-house-01306286-0bbc-4042-9bfe-890413c6220d.html

 

 

Anyone who's been trained in science and data at all knows Fauci is right in this exchange.

 

Imagine being arrogant enough to criticize a doctor for not understanding medical evidence... as an economist.

 

We cannot start putting millions of Americans on a drug when there's a paper thin file of what may well be junk science supporting it's efficacy. Lots of high-quality studies are needed for a reason. The folks I feel worst for are the lupus, RA and other autoimmune disorder sufferers who we KNOW this drug works for who may be struggling to get it now.

[TGHusker]

1 minute ago, commando said:

12% last time....with polls showing between 7% and 15% this time.  so...maybe that 12% holds again?

I understand, kind of, why in 2016 Sanders supporters voted for Trump:

1.  Hillary and Trump appeared to be equally terrible candidates

2. Trump was an outsider- a political novice - the hope was that he wasn't a part of the swamp Sanders was trying to upend.

However, in 2020 it is unforgivable.  Trump is now a fully known commodity politically for which there is no  justification for a non-GOPer to vote for the guy. 

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, TGHusker said:

Trump is now a fully known commodity politically for which there is no  justification for a non-GOPer to vote for the guy.

 

Exactly.

[TGHusker]

6 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

The folks I feel worst for are the lupus, RA and other autoimmune disorder sufferers who we KNOW this drug works for who may be struggling to get it now.

So true and even worse if the supply chain for it reaches back into China like so many other drugs. It is a national failing that drugs so badly needed in the USA are being made in China.  Drug companies are making money hand over fists and some of that should be used to manufacture drugs in the USA where we know there is strong quality controls.  My wife takes a prescription and we've often have had to scramble to find new sources and alternatives.

[knapplc]

Uhhh.... uh-oh.  That's not good.

 

 

In other news, at Trump's age, how has he not contracted this virus with all the exposure he's had?

 

[Danny Bateman]

24 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

So true and even worse if the supply chain for it reaches back into China like so many other drugs. It is a national failing that drugs so badly needed in the USA are being made in China.  Drug companies are making money hand over fists and some of that should be used to manufacture drugs in the USA where we know there is strong quality controls.  My wife takes a prescription and we've often have had to scramble to find new sources and alternatives.

 

I read a story yesterday to the effect of "what if Trump is right about China [being to blame for Covid-19]."

 

Well yeah, obviously they're lying and fudging their numbers. And clearly they're a geopolitical foe we need to take head on moving forward.

 

Trump is fine at diagnosing problems sometimes. The problem is, and always has been, his proposed solutions are impotent junk that don't solve what he claims they will.

 

Also, I'll say a prayer for your wife my friend. I hope she can continue to get what she needs. Clearly we've got a lot that needs fixing.