The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[Dr. Strangelove]

2 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

With all due respect, you are the one that won't rationally consider the fact that we may have ended up here regardless of leadership at the Nat'l level. We may have come through better off too, who knows. Other Countries without Trump at the helm fared as bad or worse than the US. 

 

You have ZERO proof of what might have been the outcome with Hillary Clinton in the seat occupied by DJT for all of this. His shaping of the response may be substandard to you and I, but we could surmise that hers would have been as bad or worse. And, if I am playing your game, I will stick to that as Gospel, and discount your opinions otherwise...well...just because.

 

(Conjecture: an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.)

On the contrary, you're simply ignoring evidence to comfort the fact that the party you support did an extremely poor job handling the virus, and gnat the Right-Wing machine has led to widespread vaccine hesitancy and rails against mask use to this day. 

 

Now, it's impossible to predict what would've happened if Democrats were in charge. But would they have hired Dr. Scott Atlas, who advocated for a libertarian role of the governments repose to COVID and who wanted to reach natural heard immunity? No.

 

Would they have even looked at a random Excel chart some idiot put together  that framed their COVID response? (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/5/8/21250641/kevin-hassett-cubic-model-smoothing) no.

 

This isn't hard. The United States has tremendous resources to respond to situations like this and Trump did a poor job utilizing it.

 

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

4 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

The vaccine was developed....

  Hide contents

When Trump was still in office

 

This narrative that the GOP has been telling people to not obide by guidelines or get vaxxed is ridiculous.  Not going whole hog like the Dems apparently = being antivax rebellious murderers.  It's possible to agree with some things, disagree with others, and still obide by things and be a decent person. 

I didn't deny that his administration didn't develop the vaccine. 

 

But you do realize the most common predictor of getting the vaccine is voter preference, yes? You don't think the right-wing disinformation machine has anything to do with that? 

[DevoHusker]

5 minutes ago, commando said:

IMO.....if trump was pushing the vaccines as hard as he is pushing his stop the steal BS......we would probably be at herd immunity by now.   

I don't disagree with your premise, but would argue that he pushed for vaccines. If there is any question about his push, it would be for masks. And 

@Redux covered those I believe. 

[Redux]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

I didn't deny that his administration didn't develop the vaccine. 

 

But you do realize the most common predictor of getting the vaccine is voter preference, yes? You don't think the right-wing disinformation machine has anything to do with that? 

 

If his administration developed it and he is no longer in office now, it's not his responsibility anymore now is it?

[DevoHusker]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

On the contrary, you're simply ignoring evidence to comfort the fact that the party you support did an extremely poor job handling the virus, and gnat the Right-Wing machine has led to widespread vaccine hesitancy and rails against mask use to this day. 

 

 

 

And you don't think there would be vaccine hesitancy in hard red areas if the Dems were in charge?...nothing would change with the vociferous anti-vaxers. 

[Dr. Strangelove]

3 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

And you don't think there would be vaccine hesitancy in hard red areas if the Dems were in charge?...nothing would change with the vociferous anti-vaxers. 

I'm not saying there wouldn't be. I'm saying that there would be fewer of them. 

 

The GOP has convinced millions of Americans to distrust anything they view as "elite". They've done a good job of winning elections by cultivating that kind of populism. (Democrats also try to tap into populism with inaccurate statements, but that's for a different thread). The downside of the GOPs version of distrusting-populism is where we are today. 

 

Anti-mask sentiment was intensified as a result. Vaccine hesitancy has been amplified as a result. More Americans have got COVID, have been hospitalized, and have died as a result.

[BigRedBuster]

46 minutes ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

Trump doesnt support refusal to get the vaccine. He most recently said he encourages people to get the shot but also respects an individuals ability to decide for themselves. He bragged for months about "his" vaccine and how YUGE it was. Leading up to the election who was more critical of the vaccine? Joe and Kamala or Trump? Trump has plenty of dumb things to discuss but lets not act like Trump was anti-vax. 

Joe and Kamala were not critical of the vaccine.

I wish Republicans would stop with that farce of an argument.  

[Redux]

I find it funny that people try to solely blame the Republicans for hesitancy to get a vaccine that was developed in record time, isn't FDA approved, cause side effects that mimic the virus it protects against in some instances, doesn't actually prevent contracting or spreading covid in some instances, is useless against the mutation variant and is being politicized left and right.

 

Yeah, can't imagine why people are hesitant....

 

That said, I'll probably get the Moderna version

[BigRedBuster]

5 minutes ago, Redux said:

I find it funny that people try to solely blame the Republicans for hesitancy to get a vaccine that was developed in record time,

Literally, nobody has done that.

[Redux]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Literally, nobody has done that.

 

Do you have Strangelove blocked?

[DevoHusker]

6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Literally, nobody has done that.

 

look up 

[Hedley Lamarr]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

Joe and Kamala were not critical of the vaccine.

I wish Republicans would stop with that farce of an argument.  

You don't think any of these statements could have caused hesitancy? Like not even a little? 

 

“If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests … and trials that are needed to be done.”

 

“When we finally do, God willing, get a vaccine, who’s going to take the shot? Who’s going to take the shot? Are you going to be the first one to say sign me up?”

 

“The question of whether it’s real, when it’s there, that requires enormous transparency. You got to make all of it available to other experts across the nation, so they can look and see. So there’s consensus, this is a safe vaccine.” 

 

“Only if it was completely transparent, that other experts in the country could look at it. Only if we knew all of what went into it, because so far nothing he’s told us has been true.”

 

“If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it.”

 

Or articles such as this, 

Democrats Fear Trump Will Rush Unsafe Vaccine To Help His Reelection Bid | HuffPost

Fact check: Coronavirus vaccine could come this year, Trump says. Experts say he needs a 'miracle' to be right. (nbcnews.com)

Biden, Seizing on Worries of a Rushed Vaccine, Warns Trump Can’t Be Trusted - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

Again we can criticize Trump for a lot of things, we can criticize the GOP for several things, but lets stop pretending that freedom of choice in EUA vaccination is the same as anti-vax. The entire undertone during the election were doubt Trump dont trust Trump or a "Trump approval of a vaccine" They might have been rushed. We need full transparency etc. This isnt a blame one side or the other this is a blame politics in general. Recently IE post election you could place more blame on the GOP in terms of potential vaccine hesitancy but again most of them are advocating for freedom of choice. Which is quite ironic given many of their positions on other topics for the last several decades. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

4 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Do you have Strangelove blocked?

 

1 minute ago, DevoHusker said:

 

look up 

I must have missed it.  Can you show me where he said the GOP is solely to blame for the anti-vax sentiment.  

[Hedley Lamarr]

14 minutes ago, Redux said:

I find it funny that people try to solely blame the Republicans for hesitancy to get a vaccine that was developed in record time, isn't FDA approved, cause side effects that mimic the virus it protects against in some instances, doesn't actually prevent contracting or spreading covid in some instances, is useless against the mutation variant and is being politicized left and right.

 

Yeah, can't imagine why people are hesitant....

 

That said, I'll probably get the Moderna version

You bring up the main point and that is a continued dis-trust in the federal government as a whole. People are realizing that they don't care about them and therefore why should they trust or listen to them. If this virus would have hit in the middle of a presidency you most likely would have seen a very different reaction but it landed during an election year which screwed us all. 

[Redux]

7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I must have missed it.  Can you show me where he said the GOP is solely to blame for the anti-vax sentiment.  

 

I mean, infer it how you like.  Not seeing any real Dem criticism here:

 

1 hour ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

You're to far gone to even talk about this rationally.

 

Which is sad, hundreds of unvaccinated people are dying each day, despite widespread vaccine availability, and there is a clear linkage between Trump supports and refusal to get a vaccine. A linkage to vaccine refusal and consumption of news from right-wing outlets. Do you deny this? 

 

But I suppose the cognitive dissonance involved in ignoring the GOPs absolute failure regarding the Pandemic (and the lives lost because of those failures) is comforting. It allows voters like @Archy1221 to continue to support the party and for @Redux to continue to rationalize that "bOtH parTiEs R BaD". It's funny in a sad sort of way.