The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[suh_fan93]

 

 

[Redux]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

Let’s stop pretending he didn’t. 
 

From the beginning he would act all on board in the press conferences like he cleared then go to rallies with his worshippers and lock anyone taking it serious. 
 

He has killed people. 

 

You are using assumption fueled by political fodder to defend that statement essentially ruling it completely useless.  It's Butterfly Effect politics and it's dangerous narrative because people actually believe it.  Here's an example:

 

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

Let’s stop pretending he didn’t. 
 

From the beginning he would act all on board in the press conferences like he cleared then go to rallies with his worshippers and lock anyone taking it serious. 
 

He has killed people. 

 

See, dangerous rhetoric.  Saying things are factual when they aren't even remotely measurable, ridiculous.  Social Media and Big Tech are censoring and banning people for that exact thing right now.

[Scarlet]

35 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

 

See, dangerous rhetoric.  Saying things are factual when they aren't even remotely measurable, ridiculous.  Social Media and Big Tech are censoring and banning people for that exact thing right now.

You mean like people saying Biden was planning an imminent invasion of Syria back in February? 

 

Or that the withdrawal from Afghanistan was going to go past September and that we'd wind up staying, using the excuse that the Afghans can't govern themselves?

 

Things like that?

[DevoHusker]

12 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

You mean like people saying Biden was planning an imminent invasion of Syria back in February? 

 

Or that the withdrawal from Afghanistan was going to go past September and that we'd wind up staying, using the excuse that the Afghans can't govern themselves?

 

Things like that?

Yep, those things too

[Redux]

33 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

You mean like people saying Biden was planning an imminent invasion of Syria back in February? 

 

Or that the withdrawal from Afghanistan was going to go past September and that we'd wind up staying, using the excuse that the Afghans can't govern themselves?

 

Things like that?

 

Syria is by no means settled, bold assumption though.  Me, I prefer not to start new wars.  But that's just me.  Now that Biden is president things like airstrikes are just playful games I guess...

 

Are we withdrawn from Afghanistan yet, checks:

 

The United States Armed Forces are scheduled to be withdrawn from Afghanistan by 31 August 2021, concluding Operation Freedom's Sentinel and NATO's Resolute Support Mission.

 

Huh, so like an hour before September begins.....hope that holds up.  Not for anyone's sake but the troops still sitting there.  Hope they can govern themselves.  But far be it from me to hold up things like keeping insulin affordable and bringing troops home in the Spring.  Executive Orders are more important I guess.

 

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

4 hours ago, Redux said:

 

You are using assumption fueled by political fodder to defend that statement essentially ruling it completely useless.  It's Butterfly Effect politics and it's dangerous narrative because people actually believe it.  Here's an example:

 

 

See, dangerous rhetoric.  Saying things are factual when they aren't even remotely measurable, ridiculous.  Social Media and Big Tech are censoring and banning people for that exact thing right now.

My point in asking is an simply an exercise. You either: 

 

A) Believe that Trump (and the GOP) did nothing wrong in their messaging regarding the virus Or at least did their best to handle the situation

B) Conclude that Trump (and the GOP) sent negative messages to the public regarding masks and vaccines in order to stoke their base to win an election

 

The reason I ask you, @Archy1221 and others is because you're intelligent people. Only the most brainwashed really believe that Trump did not harm anybody with his messaging or COVID19 strategy. He absolutely DID. We're feeling the effects of that messaging TODAY. Every death since the vaccine has been readily available can be attributed to that messaging.

 

I'm simply asking you to go backwards and wonder about the deaths that we can't measure, prior to May when vaccines were not available. We can only ponder the toll that messaging took on the lives of Americans. 

 

So, I ask, which do you believe? Trump either did harm or he didn't. If you think he DID I'm only asking you to think about how much. 

 

Once you reach the obvious answer, try reconciling your belief that "both sides are the same".

 

I'm more than happy to discuss dumb things that Democrats do, the list is long, but trying to equate the two sides on COVID is simply not debatable. 

[Redux]

21 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

A) Believe that Trump (and the GOP) did nothing wrong in their messaging regarding the virus Or at least did their best to handle the situation

 

B) Conclude that Trump (and the GOP) sent negative messages to the public regarding masks and vaccines in order to stoke their base to win an election

 

You can't be serious 

[Archy1221]

9 hours ago, Redux said:

 

You can't be serious 

Unfortunately he is:(. 

[Dr. Strangelove]

9 hours ago, Redux said:

 

You can't be serious 

You're to far gone to even talk about this rationally.

 

Which is sad, hundreds of unvaccinated people are dying each day, despite widespread vaccine availability, and there is a clear linkage between Trump supports and refusal to get a vaccine. A linkage to vaccine refusal and consumption of news from right-wing outlets. Do you deny this? 

 

But I suppose the cognitive dissonance involved in ignoring the GOPs absolute failure regarding the Pandemic (and the lives lost because of those failures) is comforting. It allows voters like @Archy1221 to continue to support the party and for @Redux to continue to rationalize that "bOtH parTiEs R BaD". It's funny in a sad sort of way. 

[Redux]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

You're to far gone to even talk about this rationally.

 

Which is sad, hundreds of unvaccinated people are dying each day, despite widespread vaccine availability, and there is a clear linkage between Trump supports and refusal to get a vaccine. A linkage to vaccine refusal and consumption of news from right-wing outlets. Do you deny this? 

 

But I suppose the cognitive dissonance involved in ignoring the GOPs absolute failure regarding the Pandemic (and the lives lost because of those failures) is comforting. It allows voters like @Archy1221 to continue to support the party and for @Redux 

 

I just prefer honest conversation, you're not trying to have that.

[Dr. Strangelove]

7 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

I just prefer honest conversation, you're not trying to have that.

Let's keep it simple.

 

Do you think the GOP messaging over the last 18 months had a positive, negative, or neutral effect on mask use or on getting the vaccine?

 

My opinion is that it is negative. There is clear correlation with voter support for GOP (and the right-wing news platform) politicians and vaccine hesitancy and negative views of mask use.

 

I'm very open to your views on this, believe it or not. 

[Hedley Lamarr]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

You're to far gone to even talk about this rationally.

 

Which is sad, hundreds of unvaccinated people are dying each day, despite widespread vaccine availability, and there is a clear linkage between Trump supports and refusal to get a vaccine. A linkage to vaccine refusal and consumption of news from right-wing outlets. Do you deny this? 

 

But I suppose the cognitive dissonance involved in ignoring the GOPs absolute failure regarding the Pandemic (and the lives lost because of those failures) is comforting. It allows voters like @Archy1221 to continue to support the party and for @Redux to continue to rationalize that "bOtH parTiEs R BaD". It's funny in a sad sort of way. 

Trump doesnt support refusal to get the vaccine. He most recently said he encourages people to get the shot but also respects an individuals ability to decide for themselves. He bragged for months about "his" vaccine and how YUGE it was. Leading up to the election who was more critical of the vaccine? Joe and Kamala or Trump? Trump has plenty of dumb things to discuss but lets not act like Trump was anti-vax. 

[DevoHusker]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

You're to far gone to even talk about this rationally.

 

Which is sad, hundreds of unvaccinated people are dying each day, despite widespread vaccine availability, and there is a clear linkage between Trump supports and refusal to get a vaccine. A linkage to vaccine refusal and consumption of news from right-wing outlets. Do you deny this? 

 

But I suppose the cognitive dissonance involved in ignoring the GOPs absolute failure regarding the Pandemic (and the lives lost because of those failures) is comforting. It allows voters like @Archy1221 to continue to support the party and for @Redux to continue to rationalize that "bOtH parTiEs R BaD". It's funny in a sad sort of way. 

 

With all due respect, you are the one that won't rationally consider the fact that we may have ended up here regardless of leadership at the Nat'l level. We may have come through better off too, who knows. Other Countries without Trump at the helm fared as bad or worse than the US. 

 

You have ZERO proof of what might have been the outcome with Hillary Clinton in the seat occupied by DJT for all of this. His shaping of the response may be substandard to you and I, but we could surmise that hers would have been as bad or worse. And, if I am playing your game, I will stick to that as Gospel, and discount your opinions otherwise...well...just because.

 

(Conjecture: an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.)

[commando]

4 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

With all due respect, you are the one that won't rationally consider the fact that we may have ended up here regardless of leadership at the Nat'l level. We may have come through better off too, who knows. Other Countries without Trump at the helm fared as bad or worse than the US. 

 

You have ZERO proof of what might have been the outcome with Hillary Clinton in the seat occupied by DJT for all of this. His shaping of the response may be substandard to you and I, but we could surmise that hers would have been as bad or worse. And, if I am playing your game, I will stick to that as Gospel, and discount your opinions otherwise...well...just because.

 

(Conjecture: an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.)

IMO.....if trump was pushing the vaccines as hard as he is pushing his stop the steal BS......we would probably be at herd immunity by now.   

[Redux]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

Let's keep it simple.

 

Do you think the GOP messaging over the last 18 months had a positive, negative, or neutral effect on mask use or on getting the vaccine?

 

My opinion is that it is negative. There is clear correlation with voter support for GOP (and the right-wing news platform) politicians and vaccine hesitancy and negative views of mask use.

 

I'm very open to your views on this, believe it or not. 

 

The vaccine was developed....

Spoiler

When Trump was still in office

 

This narrative that the GOP has been telling people to not obide by guidelines or get vaxxed is ridiculous.  Not going whole hog like the Dems apparently = being antivax rebellious murderers.  It's possible to agree with some things, disagree with others, and still obide by things and be a decent person.