The George Floyd/Black Lives Matter protests and police conduct

[RedDenver]

7 minutes ago, BIGREDIOWAN said:

There have been plenty of instances where an officer is giving chase on a suspect and that suspect gets a shot off on an officer and ends up getting shot in the back. That doesn't justify or not justify the shooting for me in situations. I can see both sides of the situation in Atlanta. Having been shot with the Taser and having used the Taser on suspects it renders you completely helpless if contact is made appropriately with the probes. That becomes a concern for an officer in reference to your gun possibly being taken from you. If you hold the trigger down on the Taser it'll just keep going and going. It's more than "confetti" being shot out of those things. Of course if people would comply in these situations first of all and not play court on the side of the road or wherever ALOT of situations could be avoided. 

Good points. My point about the confetti is that it makes it obvious that a stun gun is being fired, which is the point of why it also contains confetti in addition to the probes. The stun gun also has a mode where you can use it directly without the probes, so if the suspect had approached the officer with the stun gun, then it would make sense why he fired his gun. However, why isn't that officer using his own stun gun? I haven't heard an explanation for that.

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

However, why isn't that officer using his own stun gun? I haven't heard an explanation for that.

I know a police officer in North Carolina.  He told me of a situation where he was chasing a guy and fired his stun gun.  The probes came back at him just perfect and actually stunned him.  I have no clue if this went through this police officer's mind.  But, running and firing the stun gun isn't a very good situation.

[teachercd]

2 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Sure. I said there would be circumstances where it would be justified.

 

But if instead of an actual gun, the suspect fired something full of confetti, which any officer would know is a stun gun, then it's clearly not justified.

No way...say the cop gets hit by the stun gun and is out or stunned...then he/she is totally defenseless.  

[RedDenver]

29 minutes ago, teachercd said:

No way...say the cop gets hit by the stun gun and is out or stunned...then he/she is totally defenseless.  

There are multiple cops and one suspect, so not defenseless.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

There are multiple cops and one suspect, so not defenseless.

 

Even if the other cops weren't able to assist in time, it's primarily an American way of policing that dictates the chop shoots to kill.

 

 

 

Other police forces around the world are able to deal with crime without killing people. America has to change the very basic approach we take to police practices.

[BigRedBuster]

17 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Even if the other cops weren't able to assist in time, it's primarily an American way of policing that dictates the chop shoots to kill.

 

17 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Other police forces around the world are able to deal with crime without killing people. America has to change the very basic approach we take to police practices.

Which is a little bit of why I'm having the feelings I have stated about this situation.  

 

There is clearly major issues of how these officers are trained.  It's not this one rouge cop blasting away.  It's a systemic thing in how they are trained and the mindset they are put into service with.  So, when an officer like this is put in a split second decision and he feels threatened, his first reaction is to pull out the gun and fire.  

 

If it's a training issue, I have a problem with sentencing an officer like this to years in prison.

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Which is a little bit of why I'm having the feelings I have stated about this situation.  

 

There is clearly major issues of how these officers are trained.  It's not this one rouge cop blasting away.  It's a systemic thing in how they are trained and the mindset they are put into service with.  So, when an officer like this is put in a split second decision and he feels threatened, his first reaction is to pull out the gun and fire.  

 

If it's a training issue, I have a problem with sentencing an officer like this to years in prison.

Yes, it's much more than a single officer. But how do we hold the ones giving the training to account that's costing us so many lives? And is bad training enough that the officer who pulled the trigger is completely off the hook?

[BigRedBuster]

7 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

And is bad training enough that the officer who pulled the trigger is completely off the hook?

Did I say that?

 

The protests are demanding the right things.  They are demanding change in leadership/mindset/training.  There needs to be a lot of change above the people patrolling the street.

[RedDenver]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Did I say that?

 

The protests are demanding the right things.  They are demanding change in leadership/mindset/training.  There needs to be a lot of change above the people patrolling the street.

I was legitimately asking those questions, not trying to put words in your mouth. I don't know the answers.

[BigRedBuster]

Just now, RedDenver said:

I was legitimately asking those questions, not trying to put words in your mouth. I don't know the answers.

Well, the answer from me is "no", but knowing the leadership and training issues that obviously exist, it also skews how I view the actions of the officer.

[DevoHusker]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

 

Even if the other cops weren't able to assist in time, it's primarily an American way of policing that dictates the chop shoots to kill.

 

 

 

Other police forces around the world are able to deal with crime without killing people. America has to change the very basic approach we take to police practices.

 

It is another argument entirely regarding numbers...but...it is a factor. Until these numbers change, and "bad guys" can outgun cops, this will be an issue.

 

USA 393 million privately owned firearms

Germany 13 million

Australia 3.5 million

Sweden 2.39 million

UK  1.4 million

NZ  1.2 million

 

 

[RedDenver]

 

[RedDenver]

 

[teachercd]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

There are multiple cops and one suspect, so not defenseless.

No.

 

If you can stun someone you are what, 10 feet away?  That is so close and you can get stunned and the stunner can be on top of you and ripping your throat out before any of the other cops even get there...even if those other cops are only 20 feet away.

[RedDenver]