Is the vaccine safe?

[DevoHusker]

52 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

 

There's no evidence it's contributing to these deaths; it's just a possible contributor. Unfortunately, there's no way to know what would have happened if they hadn't received the vaccine since they might have died anyway.

This sounds very similar to the arguments regarding the counting of "covid deaths" overall

[Decked]

I can’t believe that people actually think this. Some people shouldn’t be allowed to vote or have children. This is literal nonsense thats being spewed all over the internet about it not being safe. Everybody should be getting the vaccine save for maybe religious reasons perhaps. The vaccine has killed nobody. Coronavirus has killed 447,000 as of today. Yesterday alone it killed 3,406. 

[RedDenver]

14 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

This sounds very similar to the arguments regarding the counting of "covid deaths" overall

With the giant exception that the covid death counts have many, many data points showing that the fatality rates across the globe have gone up as compared to 29 deaths out of 42,000 given the vaccine in a single country.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't keep an open mind, but we also shouldn't jump to conclusions either.

[DevoHusker]

21 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

With the giant exception that the covid death counts have many, many data points showing that the fatality rates across the globe have gone up as compared to 29 deaths out of 42,000 given the vaccine in a single country.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't keep an open mind, but we also shouldn't jump to conclusions either.

 

Yes, agree. I was referring to the debate of died "with Covid" or "from Covid"...which is similar to your earlier reference regarding no way to determine if they would have perished anyway,  "with" or "without" the vaccine.

[knapplc]

That's why excess mortality is such a key metric. 

 

 

source

[TGHusker]

Thanks everyone for the info provided. It has helped me to find more info to share with my relative in a factual way.

 

It seems to me that the same people who are anti-vaxxers are also covid deniers.   They tend to mistrust govt, authority and are easily persuaded by conspiracy theories.

I would bet most were Trump supporters who also believed the election was rigged. 

 

 

 

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/antivaccine-leader-del-bigtree-on-covid-19-lets-catch-this-cold-why-antivaxxers-and-coronavirus-conspiracy-theorists-are-often-one-in-the-same/

First proper info on the vaccine: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine

Vaccine rumours debunked: Microchips, 'altered DNA' and more

https://www.bbc.com/news/54893437

More misinformation here: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_related_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic#Vaccine_misinformation

While Wiki isn't the best source, it does have links to the background articles that support the statements.
 

Quote

 

Vaccine misinformation

Anti-vaccination activists and other people spread a variety of rumors, including overblown claims about side effects, a story about COVID-19 being spread by childhood vaccines, misrepresentations about how the immune system works, and when and how COVID-19 vaccines are made.

Role of mRNA

Further information: RNA vaccine

mRNA wrongly claiming it would alter a person's DNA

The use of mRNA-based vaccines for COVID-19 has been the basis of misinformation circulated in social media, wrongly claiming that the use of RNA somehow alters a person's DNA.^[279] The DNA alteration conspiracy theory was cited by a Wisconsin hospital pharmacist who deliberately removed 57 vaccine vials from cold storage in December 2020 and was subsequently charged with felony reckless endangerment and criminal damage to property by Ozaukee County prosecutors.^[280]

mRNA in the cytosol is very rapidly degraded before it would have time to gain entry into the cell nucleus. (mRNA vaccines must be stored at very low temperature to prevent mRNA degradation.) Retrovirus can be single-stranded RNA (just as SARS-CoV-2 vaccine is single-stranded RNA) which enters the cell nucleus and uses reverse transcriptase to make DNA from the RNA in the cell nucleus. A retrovirus has mechanisms to be imported into the nucleus, but other mRNA lack these mechanisms. Once inside the nucleus, creation of DNA from RNA cannot occur without a primer, which accompanies a retrovirus, but which would not exist for other mRNA if placed in the nucleus.^[281][282] Thus, mRNA vaccines cannot alter DNA because they cannot enter the nucleus, and because they have no primer to activate reverse transcriptase.

mRNA vaccines won't affect your DNA:

https://www.deplatformdisease.com/blog/no-really-mrna-vaccines-are-not-going-to-affect-your-dna

mRNA wrongly claiming it would still be experimental

There is a claim that mRNA vaccines would still be experimental. This has been debunked by the flemish national TV:^[283]. "mRNA Drugs (therapeutic vaccines) have been tested in more than 8 million people over the past decades. At the moment there is no evidence of the development of autoimmune diseases. Based on this information, we may assume that the use of the mRNA technology is justified. - Answer from Professor of Medicine Drew Weissman - best known for his work with RNA biology that laid the groundwork for the mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 - to our question."

Infertility

In a viral blog post, German politician Wolfgang Wodarg, together with ex-Pfizer employee Michael Yeadon, spread misinformation claiming that the COVID-19 vaccines causes infertility in women. Commenting on these claims, David Gorski wrote "The sad thing is that this not-so-dynamic duo is stoking real fear that the new COVID-19 vaccines will make women infertile and is doing it based on speculative nonsense".^[284]

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/it-was-inevitable-that-antivaxxers-would-claim-that-covid-19-vaccines-make-females-infertile/

Polio vaccine as a claimed COVID-19 carrier

Social media posts in Cameroon pushed a conspiracy theory that polio vaccines contained coronavirus, further complicating polio eradication beyond the logistical and funding difficulties created by the COVID-19 pandemic.^[285]

Bell's palsy

Claims have been circulated on social media that the Pfizer‑BioNTech COVID‑19 vaccine (active ingredient tozinameran) causes Bell's palsy. While it's true that, during the trial, four of the 22,000 trial participants did have Bell's palsy, the FDA observed that the "frequency of reported Bell's palsy in the vaccine group is consistent with the expected background rate in the general population".^[286]

Antibody-dependent enhancement

Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) is the phenomenon by which the immune system can overreact to the introduction of material against which it already has antibodies. ADE has been observed in animal studies during the development of coronavirus vaccines, but as of 14 December 2020 there had been no observed incidences in human vaccine trials. Nevertheless anti-vaccination activists falsely cite ADE as a reason to avoid vaccination against COVID-19.^[284][287]

^{This alone refutes the video "Vaccine Mix Up" on The Highwire:}

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/no-evidence-that-covid-19-vaccines-cause-more-severe-disease-antibody-dependent-enhancement-has-not-been-observed-in-clinical-trials/

Claims about a vaccine before one existed

Multiple social media posts promoted a conspiracy theory claiming that in the early stages of the pandemic, the virus was known and that a vaccine was already available. PolitiFact and FactCheck.org noted that no vaccine existed for COVID-19 at that point. The patents cited by various social media posts reference existing patents for genetic sequences and vaccines for other strains of coronavirus such as the SARS coronavirus.^[288][289] The WHO reported that as of 5 February 2020, despite news reports of "breakthrough drugs" being discovered, there were no treatments known to be effective;^[290] this included antibiotics and herbal remedies not being useful.^[291]

On Facebook, a widely shared post claimed in April 2020 that seven Senegalese children had died because they had received a COVID-19 vaccine. No such vaccine existed, although some were in clinical trials at that time.^[292]

Aborted fetus material in the vaccine

Further information: Use of fetal tissue in vaccine development

In November 2020, claims circulated on the web that AZD1222, a COVID-19 vaccine developed by Oxford University and AstraZeneca, "contained" tissue from aborted fetuses. While it is true that cell lines derived from a fetus aborted in 1970 plays a role in the vaccine development process, the molecules are completely separate from the vaccine itself.^[293][294]

 

 

 

 

[TGHusker]

Again, it appears the GOP is the anti-science party, the party of conspiracies and I think it can be traced back to Trump and his response to Covid.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/02/03/1-in-4-americans-say-they-would-never-get-covid-vaccine-poll/
 

Quote

 

One in four Americans said they would never get the coronavirus vaccine, a new national poll reveals.

Republicans were the biggest COVID-19 vaccine resisters, with 42 percent saying they will “never get” it, the Monmouth University poll released Wednesday found.

A higher vaccination rate is crucial to reach what scientists call herd immunity from the killer virus. Public health officials estimate that between 70 percent and 85 percent of people need to be immune from the coronavirus before the disease fades away.

The pollster asked respondents: “Thinking about the Covid vaccine, do you plan to get the vaccine as soon as you are allowed, will you let other people get it first to see how it goes, or is it likely you will never get the vaccine if you can avoid it?”

Half of the respondents who hadn’t been vaccinated said they would get the COVID-19 vaccine as soon it is available to them.

 

 

Quote

 

Democrats were most eager to get the vaccine as soon as possible — 72 percent, when including those who already got jabbed. Only 10 percent of Dems said they would never get inoculated.

By comparison, only 51 percent of registered independents and 39 percent of Republicans are on board with the vaccine.

More Republicans — 42 percent — said they will avoid ever getting the vaccine, exceeding party members who would get it.

About one in four indies said they would never get it — mirroring the national average.

 

Quote

 

Reluctance to get the vaccine is driven more by partisanship than any single demographic factor. It says a lot about the depth of our partisan divide that it could impact public health like this,” said Monmouth pollster Patrick Murray.

He noted that the poll was conducted before the announcement that Johnson & Johnson would soon ask for emergency approval for its one-dose vaccine. The existing Pfizer/BioNtech and Moderna vaccines require two doses.

The survey lumped blacks, Hispanics and Asians into one category in comparison to white respondents.

Overall, white Americans (58%) are slightly more likely than minorities (52%) to be willing to be first in line for the vaccine.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

7 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Nursing home patients are part of the general population as it’s called general for a reason.   
 

that said, the article B.B. posted mentioned those deaths included terminal patients.  Also keep in mind Norway vaccinated 43K patients I believe it said, and the US has vaccinated over 10 million.  With our media, I’m sure we would have heard of major problems by now.  

This was my first thought.  If we had elderly people dropping like flies, the media would be all over it.  And, it's not just us vaccinating their population.  There's obviously something different about who Norway is vaccinating and everyone needs to take precautions with that small group....which seems like all other countries probably already are.

[knapplc]

55 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

This was my first thought.  If we had elderly people dropping like flies, the media would be all over it.  And, it's not just us vaccinating their population.  There's obviously something different about who Norway is vaccinating and everyone needs to take precautions with that small group....which seems like all other countries probably already are.

 

Unless you're Governor Cuomo...