Rumored play calling swap at half..??

[Husker in WI]

16 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Don't you feel a little better about the kicking game? Last couple years a simple extra point was a PTSD experience. 

 

And we know it was Frost who stepped in to call the onside kicks. And recruited, developed and stayed loyal to Wyatt Liewer.

 

Am I blaming Scott Frost for everything?

 

Yeah. Maybe. 

 

I do, but I will totally admit that it is irrational to feel more confident in the kicking game this year with a new guy who is 1-2 with a missed 30 something yarder when last year we returned the reigning Big Ten kicker of the year. And if anyone gets blame for Liewer's decision, that has to be Busch now. I am 100% confident neither Busch nor Frost teach the players to field a punt rolling to a stop with opposing players around when it hasn't been touched. The onside kick is on Frost, but our win probability was still almost 80% when they recovered it.

 

If you didn't know we had hired Bill Busch,  people would still be up in arms with the missed short field goal, botched squib kick, lack of returns, and Liewer trying to give the ball away all in the first 2 games. Buschini has been great, but we were targeting a punter regardless of whether we hired a dedicated special teams coach. 

[Mavric]

17 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Don't you feel a little better about the kicking game? Last couple years a simple extra point was a PTSD experience. 

 

Better than last year?  I guess.  We're only 1/3 so far so it's not exactly party-worthy.  I think it will be better.

 

But not "last couple years."  Two years ago we had an All-B1G kicker.  And we did it without a designated Special Teams Coordinator. *gasps*

 

17 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

And we know it was Frost who stepped in to call the onside kicks. And recruited, developed and stayed loyal to Wyatt Liewer.

 

Only one onside kick.  I wasn't a fan of it but I can see why they tried it.  It was there.  It was just a terrible kick.

 

The other one wasn't an onside kick.  And it was absolutely the right call.  It was just executed poorly.

[Born N Bled Red]

9 minutes ago, Husker in WI said:

 

I do, but I will totally admit that it is irrational to feel more confident in the kicking game this year with a new guy who is 1-2 with a missed 30 something yarder when last year we returned the reigning Big Ten kicker of the year. And if anyone gets blame for Liewer's decision, that has to be Busch now. I am 100% confident neither Busch nor Frost teach the players to field a punt rolling to a stop with opposing players around when it hasn't been touched. The onside kick is on Frost, but our win probability was still almost 80% when they recovered it.

 

If you didn't know we had hired Bill Busch,  people would still be up in arms with the missed short field goal, botched squib kick, lack of returns, and Liewer trying to give the ball away all in the first 2 games. Buschini has been great, but we were targeting a punter regardless of whether we hired a dedicated special teams coach. 

 

Honestly a lot is being made about Liewer grabbing the punt. Its all bluster. The kid probably knew the ball was partially blocked (aka touched by a Nebraska player) and couldn't remember in the moment if that made it a live ball or not. s#!t, I had to Google it while I was waiting for the refs to make up their mind.

[Mavric]

Just now, Born N Bled Red said:

Honestly a lot is being made about Liewer grabbing the punt. Its all bluster. The kid probably knew the ball was partially blocked (aka touched by a Nebraska player) and couldn't remember in the moment if that made it a liberal ball or not. s#!t, I had to Google it while I was waiting for the refs to make up their mind.

 

It took awhile for the refs to make up their mind because they were originally going to give it to North Dakota but then came back with the simultaneous possession decision that gave it back to Nebraska.

[Born N Bled Red]

1 minute ago, Mavric said:

 

It took awhile for the refs to make up their mind because they were originally going to give it to North Dakota but then came back with the simultaneous possession decision that gave it back to Nebraska.

 

Well, ya, I'm just commenting on the blocked punt/ live ball rule. Which is, if it goes beyond the line of scrimmage it remains normal punt rules, if it stays behind the line, its a live ball.

[Husker in WI]

1 minute ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Well, ya, I'm just commenting on the blocked punt/ live ball rule. Which is, if it goes beyond the line of scrimmage it remains normal punt rules, if it stays behind the line, its a live ball.

 

He knew it wasn't a live ball, ND players would've been diving on it. He either didn't know whether one of them had already touched it - in which case he could pick it up and try to return it, we could always accept the ball where they first touched it - or he thought he could trick the ND player right next to him into touching it first. But it's incredibly unlikely to actually make something out of that. You only do that if they just touch the ball and don't pick it up. Things happen fast on the field, but particularly as WR7/8 you better know the special teams scenarios.

[BigRedBuster]

8 minutes ago, Mavric said:

The other one wasn't an onside kick.  And it was absolutely the right call.  It was just executed poorly.

I still don't understand why this was the right call when you have a kicker that's putting it through the endzone.  Don't give them a chance at a return and start them on the 25.  I know we only gave up 5 yards on that, but, it could have been worse.

[Husker in WI]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

I still don't understand why this was the right call when you have a kicker that's putting it through the endzone.  Don't give them a chance at a return and start them on the 25.  I know we only gave up 5 yards on that, but, it could have been worse.

 

It could've been better though - your coverage team has a 15 yard head start, and if it's bouncing they can't fair catch it plus it takes longer to field. You do it correctly and they should be pinned at about the 15, 20 at most. Do it wrong, and it's worse than a touchback - but it's a good call when you have the 15 yards from the previous penalty.

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Husker in WI said:

 

He knew it wasn't a live ball, ND players would've been diving on it. He either didn't know whether one of them had already touched it - in which case he could pick it up and try to return it, we could always accept the ball where they first touched it - or he thought he could trick the ND player right next to him into touching it first. But it's incredibly unlikely to actually make something out of that. You only do that if they just touch the ball and don't pick it up. Things happen fast on the field, but particularly as WR7/8 you better know the special teams scenarios.

Yes, if it were a live ball, the ND player would be diving on it.  If he was thinking he was going to pick it up and return it, he's an idiot.  There were ND players all around him.  It was a complete brain melt down by him that I'm sure his teammates have not let him forget.

[Undone]

25 minutes ago, Husker in WI said:

Buschini has been great, but we were targeting a punter regardless of whether we hired a dedicated special teams coach. 

 

Totally agree, and great point.

 

25 minutes ago, Husker in WI said:

If you didn't know we had hired Bill Busch,  people would still be up in arms with the missed short field goal, botched squib kick, lack of returns, and Liewer trying to give the ball away all in the first 2 games.

 

Yep, I really would still be up in arms. But not for the field goals; that's squarely just one guy either using his individual ability well or badly in a snap second (outside of bad snaps/bad holds).

[TonkaSker]

23 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I still don't understand why this was the right call when you have a kicker that's putting it through the endzone.  Don't give them a chance at a return and start them on the 25.  I know we only gave up 5 yards on that, but, it could have been worse.

A squib from midfield isn't a bad call - practically or from an analytics standpoint. Gives you a small chance at a huge play and the field position risk is really low since you'll be touching back from about the same spot. He just executed poorly.

 

If the NW onside hadn't been a complete optics disaster this wouldn't even be a footnote from the game.

[Undone]

5 minutes ago, TonkaSker said:

If the NW onside hadn't been a complete optics disaster this wouldn't even be a footnote from the game.

 

Agreed, and that is why we're discussing it.

 

And then you zoom out and you see the special teams problems scattered all across Frost's four seasons here.

 

But there are 10 more games to be played. I can't say that special teams play cost us the Northwestern game at all - rather a coaching decision related to special teams. Busch very well might have us playing great as the season goes on and I'll be patient to watch for it.

[runningblind]

5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

@Undone and @runningblind, what I don't get is why aren't we?  We have gone through multiple coaching staffs and multiple position coaches, and we have the same problem.

 

I look at recruiting rankings as a view of what kinds of kids are coming into the program.  Those can be off when looking at individual players.  But, when you look at an entire team over the course of 6-8 years with multiple coaches coming through, why doesn't Nebraska ever get out of this cycle of players not panning out like they should?  I don't believe, when you look at an team as a whole, you can really say..."well, the rankings were wrong".

 

I keep getting back to, somehow, it's a cultural thing within the program that multiple coaches have not been able to pull it out of.  I firmly believe Scott sees it and is trying.  But, why can't coaches change that part of the culture? It's baffling to me.  It's a big part of why Scott felt he needed to flip the roster so bad when he got here.  He wanted to instill his culture.  But....we are still fighting the same things we have fought for a long time before Scott ever got here.

We can go through the issues with this staff until we're red in the face but the fact that it's been happening even into the final few years of Pelini is quite interesting as you pointed out.  Does it have a lot to do with being in the Big Ten and the game is different than the Big XII used to be? Maybe somewhat.  Does it have to do with entitlement from past program success and how much support the team receives regardless of how they perform? Maybe somewhat.  Does that entitlement spread to administrators, coaches and boosters? Probably.  Is the real answer a combination of all those things plus more? I think so.

 

It's a complicated issue, with no smoking gun or simple fix.  I think what will get this fixed is an organized coach who gets kids to come in and work on the little things. The same has to occur in the AD, and boosters need to stop meddling.  So does Tom Osborne.  In everything there must be intense attention to detail.