Star Wars: Episode VIII ***Speculation & Spoilers***

[zoogs]

I adored this film. YES!!

[zoogs]

Oh, my god. General Hux's first name is Armitage.

 

Don't work that into the movies  

 

I love Daisy Ridley's answers. And Mark Hamil cackling on the LA freeway! 

 

[zoogs]

A collection of TLJ reviews that I enjoyed (I'll try to refrain from poring over these too much for a few days):

 

https://thinkprogress.org/the-last-jedi-review-fac30f88e6e5/: 'Never meet your heroes. Become one instead'
One of my favorite lines here: "Whereas George Lucas' movies were firmly buttressed by concepts of 'chosen ones'...Johnson's [TLJ] is actively hostile to that paradigm." We detected traces of this in TFA, and I scarcely could bring myself to believe that they'd carry it out (most pointedly, through the dangling question of Rey's parentage). I LOVE it. The contrast between Rey -- risen from nothing, now at the crux of everything -- and Kylo --who was always told he was entitled and has lived that out to his present seat, despite being seriously incompetent -- is magnificent. I like where all this is going. [For further discussion of this topic both generally and as it applies to Star Wars, see here: https://www.themarysue.com/exceptionalism-and-heroism/] 

 

I disagree with this review's take on the casino city. That was a mirror held up uncomfortably close to our faces. We've had variations on the "protagonists visit some strange new underworld" theme before, but usually the focus is on showcasing weird alien life. This time, in the midst of crisis and devastation and with the good guys on the verge of being snuffed out altogether, I think it was no accident that so many of the casino-goers were humans. Not a care in the world, basking in opulence.

 

Vox: https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/12/16765308/last-jedi-star-wars-review-rey-carrie-fisher-poe-finn-kylo-ren
"...the best details are in the strong bonds that develop between characters, and the way these bonds show who each individual really is." 

 

Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/12/16766570/the-last-jedi-review-rian-johnson-star-wars-daisy-ridley-adam-driver 'A coda for the new trilogy...'

 

The Mary Sue: https://www.themarysue.com/the-last-jedi-review/

Yes! Carrie Fisher was really fantastic. And yes, this was a movie where the women are better leaders than the men, phenomenally better, at literally every turn. It's not common, especially in the archetypical hero epic, and feels so, so timely, which the best movies are. 

 

I realize these were mostly the spoiler-free reviews (I would say don't read them if you haven't seen anyway, they dive into it too much) ... so here's TMS' spoilers-based quick takes: https://www.themarysue.com/group-last-jedi-impressions/ I feel like I am the same person as "Dan", whoever they are. Thank you, Dan. Except for the first two dislikes. Snoke was supremely well done for me, including his unceremonious destruction, and I think Luke's final, draining Force effort was quite necessary to set up his exit. Which was one of his own choosing. Kylo's already actually struck down a main character in hate.

 

Also, a lot of people do not like the Finn/Rose storyline. I thought it was integral on a few levels, but yes, the editing wasn't the cleanest here and it wasn't obvious what the payoff was going to be. I think it makes most sense in retrospect, when we realize the payoff was nothing. "Daring heroes save the day because his-own-man Poe made the right call" didn't turn out to be where the story was going, which is the point. 

 

And this: "The entire ending conflict with Kylo was perfect because Kylo is a scrub in the truest form of the word, and Luke owned his punk a$$."  

 

Last notes: two of the settings were especially stunning in their effective use of color. Snoke's kickass throne room and the ice planet with the red salt. My gosh, this film was beautiful. A sweet and touching send-off for Luke, Carrie, and the rest of the old. Onto the final act!

 

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by zoogs

[Redux]

I'm going to mirror Landlord a bit here.

 

The good:

-Snoke was fantastic, so well done.  Not a sith but powerful!  Lightsaber unnecessary because he is so powerful and all knowing.  Then, he dies in an amazing scene.  Seriously did not see that coming, I really expected him to like regenerate or something.  But no, just flopped over in two pieces.  The fact he was nobody actually made it better, I'm glad he wasn't Plagueis, Sifo Deus or Gallus Rax.  His throne room was awesome, the lightsaber battle was also slick as hell.

-Daisy Ridley, really nailed the vunerable lost soul with raw potential thing.  Love her, can't wait to see her come full circle.

-Adam Driver, homerun.  LOVE that he is being handed the reigns to be the big bad after all the speculation of his conflicted position.  Not even Vader got to be the true big bad, not once.  Kylo Ren is a great character.

-Chewbacca was about perfect, not too much but just enough.

-Leia really got to shine in her swan song.

-Crait was an awesome planet and visually it was just beyond fascinating.

-Holdo and the suicide lightspeed shot through the destroyer was an absolute achievement.  Beautiful.  In retrospect it's almost a shame they didn't have Leia go down with the ship and have Holdo take her place as General. Hindsight 20/20 unfortunately.  That and Laura Dern was terrific, would have liked to see her in the next.

-FINALLY, a freaking Star Wars movie remembered what Yoda is SUPPOSED to look like!  Seriously!

-Poe is such a fun character, funny but courageous and all that jazz.

-Luke force projection battle was too good.  Man Mark Hamill still had it, how cool to see that after all this time.  And was it not just freaking perfect to have him chuck the lightsaber over his shoulder?!!?!  2 year wait after TFA and he just goes "Meh...junk.  leave my planet".  Force Ghost Luke is going to be bone chillingly cool to see in 2 years.  Damn, Luke was awesome!  He was still Luke but like more badass than ever!

 

The bad:

-2 movies, and it is BEYOND evident that Captain Phasma was merely a way to sell a chrome stormtrooper action figure.  What a complete waste.  You could have random stormtrooper #7 with a different colored shoulder pad to indicate rank fill the role in either movie and literally nothing would be different.

-John Boyega as Finn is good, don't get me wrong.  But they clearly had no clue what to do with him in this movie.

-Benicio Del Toro, unecessary.

-The whole Casino subplot could have been cut and made the runtime shorter and nobody would complain.  Too bad, it could have been a lot better.  Finn and Rose could have simply infiltrated the First Order ship without the detour, would have been way more interesting to watch an extended infiltration mission instead of lollygagging around with the race horses etc.  Oh well.

-We have all wanted to see Leia do force stuff.......but that was straight out of a Stanley Kubrick idea journal.  Like that took me out of it honestly.  Not a fan of that scene, probably my biggest gripe since the decision to insert Hayden into ROTJ.

-Still no Knights of Ren, after all the waiting.

 

I'm sure I'll think of more, that was a lot to digest.  SO much happened but almost nothing happened, heard it said that way yesterday and it rings so true.  I want to see it again to truly rank it, but it's towards the top.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Redux

[NUinID]

Liked it a lot. It really went in different directions than I expected.

 

I to was expecting Snoke to magically come back together. 

 

I agree that Benicio del Toro was wasted , but I think the Casino scene was important to set up future events. 

 

It was a little long, could have cut out 15 minuets here and there to make it shorter. Will need to see it again.

[Pedro Guerrero]

After first viewing I just don’t know about this one.  I’m sure it will grow on me after seeing it a couple more times but I was

kind of let down leaving the theater last night.

 

Too many jokes and the Leia thing was absolutely ridiculous.

 

Luke, Rey, Ren & Snoke were awesome though. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Pedro Guerrero

[TonyStalloni]

My expectations for this movie were high going in.  My fear was Rey would get close to Ren,  she would turn to the dark side, and Luke would ride in on the white horse and save the day but he and Leia would die together.  As has been stated above the high points were the death of Snoke, Rey finding herself, Luke mind projecting himself across the universe and battling Ren and the battle with the red clad Sith.  Yoda seemed very light hearted and his personality was much different.  

 

Some areas I thought were weak:  The writers still seem to use some form of fuel for propulsion for these huge ships.  I don't think fueled engines could propel a ship to light speed or multiple light speeds in a few seconds.  Also once a ship reaches light speed in space it would continue at that speed with only minor adjustments for direction changes.  I'm not sure why so much time was spent on the casino scene.

 

It seem some of this movie was dedicated to entities that didn't get much promotion in past movies.  PETA will enjoy that the "horses" were set free and no longer abused.  Rey takes center stage from here on out and provides a power figure for women.  Not sure I saw a dominant, good guy male figure who made all the right decisions without self doubt and regrets for past decisions in this movie.  Snoke, Ren both bad guys.  Luke spent many years in self exile thinking he messed up thus lending no effort in fighting the evil.  Yoda was good but he only had minutes in the movie.  I wanted to see more of the introspection and skills Luke learned in exile and expected to see him come storming back and tear the Empire a new one,  Finn was willing to run away and not given an essential part here.

 

Still enjoyed it very much and would give it a 9 of 10.

[Making Chimichangas]

I just saw "The Last Jedi" and damn, it was awesome!

 

Having Kylo Ren use the force to mask his intentions and at the same time be the one to kill Snoke was marvelously done. 

 

Rey's confusion about who she is, where she fits in the grand scheme, and being unsure of herself was a beautiful progression in her character arc.  When we learned that Rey's parents sold her for drinking money.  That they cast her away like she was nothing...as someone who has experienced that,  that scene hit me--really hard.

 

There are so many other points to talk about, but I am posting this via my phone and it makes really long posts pretty hard to do so I will cut this short.  Overall, I give TLJ a 9 out of 10.  I was very happy with the movie and will definitely see it again.

[Moiraine]

On 12/15/2017 at 6:38 AM, Saunders said:

Luke felt completely wasted. Thirty years after the most powerful jedi helped turn his dad from the Dark Side and the most evil being in the galaxy, and he loses it over an emo kid?

 

 

That's... an odd take.

 

Luke decided to train his nephew and others to become Jedi. His nephew turned to the dark side, tried to kill him, and killed Luke's friend, his own father.

 

Ya, Kylo can be very annoying and I'm not a huge fan of the character, but that shouldn't be relevant when judging how Luke acts about what has happened.

 

Neither should what happened with Darth Vader. Luke thinks he was responsible for what happened with Kylo, and if that's the case it's only natural for him to not want to get involved again. He thinks his involvement is what ruined Kylo in the first place. He had nothing to do with Darth Vader turning evil. It's a completely different situation other than they were both Luke's relatives.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Moiraine

[NUinID]

7 hours ago, TonyStalloni said:

My expectations for this movie were high going in.  My fear was Rey would get close to Ren,  she would turn to the dark side, and Luke would ride in on the white horse and save the day but he and Leia would die together.  As has been stated above the high points were the death of Snoke, Rey finding herself, Luke mind projecting himself across the universe and battling Ren and the battle with the red clad Sith.  Yoda seemed very light hearted and his personality was much different.  

 

Some areas I thought were weak:  The writers still seem to use some form of fuel for propulsion for these huge ships.  I don't think fueled engines could propel a ship to light speed or multiple light speeds in a few seconds.  Also once a ship reaches light speed in space it would continue at that speed with only minor adjustments for direction changes.  I'm not sure why so much time was spent on the casino scene.

 

It seem some of this movie was dedicated to entities that didn't get much promotion in past movies.  PETA will enjoy that the "horses" were set free and no longer abused.  Rey takes center stage from here on out and provides a power figure for women.  Not sure I saw a dominant, good guy male figure who made all the right decisions without self doubt and regrets for past decisions in this movie.  Snoke, Ren both bad guys.  Luke spent many years in self exile thinking he messed up thus lending no effort in fighting the evil.  Yoda was good but he only had minutes in the movie.  I wanted to see more of the introspection and skills Luke learned in exile and expected to see him come storming back and tear the Empire a new one,  Finn was willing to run away and not given an essential part here.

 

Still enjoyed it very much and would give it a 9 of 10.

I find it amazing that you can be so critical of the film and still give it 9 of 10. 

 

I really liked it and would only give it 8 of 10.

[TonyStalloni]

7 minutes ago, NUinID said:

I find it amazing that you can be so critical of the film and still give it 9 of 10. 

 

I really liked it and would only give it 8 of 10.

I didn't mean to sound critical.  I sat through the movie like a little kid seeing his first one.  It just took longer for me to explain what I thought were areas of weakness as opposed to the positives that others have already mentioned.  It isn't bad that now the strongest character in the series is a young woman.  Really none of the past or remaining characters were/are without flaws.  That is reality and we do the best we can....or should.

[Landlord]

9 hours ago, TonyStalloni said:

The writers still seem to use some form of fuel for propulsion for these huge ships.  I don't think fueled engines could propel a ship to light speed or multiple light speeds in a few seconds.  Also once a ship reaches light speed in space it would continue at that speed with only minor adjustments for direction changes.

 

 

A few thoughts about this

 

#1 - I mean, physics in Star Wars is just something you have to completely ignore for your own sanity. None of it makes a lick of sense - there's no sound in space, ships couldn't maneuver the same way in atmospheres as they do in outer space, there's apparently no such thing as gravity wells or different perspectives of time or much progression of time travelling the entire galaxy, etc.

 

#2 - I don't think it's actually ever been talked about or hinted at that they ever did write the ships as using fuel until this movie. I can't recall that being something I've seen in any other

 

#3 - One thing I do think is understood is that hyperdrive engines are separate entirely from what powers the ships' normal movement. Even with the ships using fuel, the hyperdrive is an altogether different thing (think Empire when the Falcon still flew fine but the hyperdrive was broken).

[Landlord]

I didn't touch on it in my synopsis but the character progression of Kylo and Rey are both absolutely magnificent imo. Definite, tangible shades of grey in both of them, but still both fairly firmly entrenched on either side of the force. People can joke about him being angsty or emo or whatever, but Kylo's rage makes him tremendously powerful, and unpredictable, and it's about time we see a dark side user actually be emotional - Vader and Palpatine, and even Maul and Dooku were all very stoic and in control, which doesn't really fit with the dark side. 

[TonyStalloni]

6 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

A few thoughts about this

 

#1 - I mean, physics in Star Wars is just something you have to completely ignore for your own sanity. None of it makes a lick of sense - there's no sound in space, ships couldn't maneuver the same way in atmospheres as they do in outer space, there's apparently no such thing as gravity wells or different perspectives of time or much progression of time travelling the entire galaxy, etc.

 

#2 - I don't think it's actually ever been talked about or hinted at that they ever did write the ships as using fuel until this movie. I can't recall that being something I've seen in any other

 

#3 - One thing I do think is understood is that hyperdrive engines are separate entirely from what powers the ships' normal movement. Even with the ships using fuel, the hyperdrive is an altogether different thing (think Empire when the Falcon still flew fine but the hyperdrive was broken).

This is fun.

 

 

[zoogs]

I really liked this review, too: https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/12/the-last-jedi-twists-spoilers-star-wars-episode-viii/548402/

 

One of the comments that stuck out to me was the one about Luke grappling with his own insignificance. I think in the long view it really does his character more justice. There's a version of events following ROTJ where Luke ascends into ultimate mastery and, with his team of buddies, kicks galactic ass en route to a hall-of-fame Jedi career. Especially since we weren't going to see any of that....I think this story makes a lot of sense. And it fits so nicely with this movie's exploration of what heroes and legends really are.