The Israel-Hamas War

[BigRedBuster]

Lebanon is helping Israel?

[Moiraine]

I only read the headline but it’s “world sees double standard…” when it comes to US response to Ukraine and Israel. 

 

Is the “world” stupid? When did the Ukraine government cross the border into Russia and slaughter 1,300 Russian civilians?

[nic]

Wow. maybe it should be required viewing for  Hamas supporters. It’s crazy they have to do this for people to believe it.
 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-shows-foreign-press-raw-hamas-bodycam-videos-of-murder-torture-decapitation/

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Hagg]

I'm sympathetic for the Palestinians, but not Hamas (or Hezbollah).  It appears that most Palestinians feel that Hamas is not representing them at all and is "dangerous."  But it's all they have in open conflict, marionetted by Iran and now China. 

 

As for Israelis, well, I think their behavior speaks for itself, as we see them doing what they say they abhor:  slaughtering civilians.   The right for Israel to exist is a little piece of complexity mixed in with how the modern version of that country came to be.  I find it shameful, and what legitimacy there is for it as it is was lost long ago.   But it will continue for the ages, unless those Islamic bordering countries decide to remove it forcefully, which can only happen if they (some of them) violate various agreements with Western entities, including the U.S.

 

The Palestinian people were forcefully removed from their homeland by European Jews chanting "we're returning to our rightful home."  That action has created generations of very angry people, most of them occupying special camps in neighboring countries, and especially Gaza, of course.  Hamas has a ready army in them, although reluctantly for many of them as mentioned before. 

 

It's come to a head.  Iran is involved more directly than ever, and in every front, it appears.  This will draw the U.S. in, of course.  The coming weeks may be quite historic. 

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, Hagg said:

I'm sympathetic for the Palestinians, but not Hamas (or Hezbollah).  It appears that most Palestinians feel that Hamas is not representing them at all and is "dangerous."  But it's all they have in open conflict, marionetted by Iran and now China. 

 

As for Israelis, well, I think their behavior speaks for itself, as we see them doing what they say they abhor:  slaughtering civilians.   The right for Israel to exist is a little piece of complexity mixed in with how the modern version of that country came to be.  I find it shameful, and what legitimacy there is for it as it is was lost long ago.   But it will continue for the ages, unless those Islamic bordering countries decide to remove it forcefully, which can only happen if they (some of them) violate various agreements with Western entities, including the U.S.

 

The Palestinian people were forcefully removed from their homeland by European Jews chanting "we're returning to our rightful home."  That action has created generations of very angry people, most of them occupying special camps in neighboring countries, and especially Gaza, of course.  Hamas has a ready army in them, although reluctantly for many of them as mentioned before. 

 

It's come to a head.  Iran is involved more directly than ever, and in every front, it appears.  This will draw the U.S. in, of course.  The coming weeks may be quite historic. 

Well I guess that’s one way to look at it

[Hagg]

9 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Well I guess that’s one way to look at it

 

It is 14.3 million ways of looking at it.  Not counting countless millions  of non-Palestinians world wide, it appears. 

[DevoHusker]

12 hours ago, Hagg said:

I'm sympathetic for the Palestinians, but not Hamas (or Hezbollah).  It appears that most Palestinians feel that Hamas is not representing them at all and is "dangerous."  But it's all they have in open conflict, marionetted by Iran and now China. 

 

As for Israelis, well, I think their behavior speaks for itself, as we see them doing what they say they abhor:  slaughtering civilians.   The right for Israel to exist is a little piece of complexity mixed in with how the modern version of that country came to be.  I find it shameful, and what legitimacy there is for it as it is was lost long ago.   But it will continue for the ages, unless those Islamic bordering countries decide to remove it forcefully, which can only happen if they (some of them) violate various agreements with Western entities, including the U.S.

 

The Palestinian people were forcefully removed from their homeland by European Jews chanting "we're returning to our rightful home."  That action has created generations of very angry people, most of them occupying special camps in neighboring countries, and especially Gaza, of course.  Hamas has a ready army in them, although reluctantly for many of them as mentioned before. 

 

It's come to a head.  Iran is involved more directly than ever, and in every front, it appears.  This will draw the U.S. in, of course.  The coming weeks may be quite historic. 

What would you do/like to see done with the Isreali State and 10 million jewish people living there?

[BigRedBuster]

46 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

What would you do/like to see done with the Isreali State and 10 million jewish people living there?

They're not moving.  But, the US doesn't need to support their treatment of Palestinians and their settlements on Palestinian land.  Once we get the current killing to stop and the tensions settled down, we can put pressure on Israel to be good neighbors and convince Palestinians to not support Hamas.

[teachercd]

49 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

They're not moving.  But, the US doesn't need to support their treatment of Palestinians and their settlements on Palestinian land.  Once we get the current killing to stop and the tensions settled down, we can put pressure on Israel to be good neighbors and convince Palestinians to not support Hamas.

That is the biggest thing, once they don't support them at all, things will get a little better.

[DevoHusker]

54 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

They're not moving.  But, the US doesn't need to support their treatment of Palestinians and their settlements on Palestinian land.  Once we get the current killing to stop and the tensions settled down, we can put pressure on Israel to be good neighbors and convince Palestinians to not support Hamas.

 

Thanks for your view. I take it you advocate trying to make the two State solution work? I think Isreal has contributed to the current situation with the "illegal" settlements and blockade of Gaza. But Hamas has been an influence since the late 80's. There have many opportunities to "not support" them, but people continue to do so. How does Isreal "negotiate" with a group whose sole purpose is to literally wipe them off the map?

[BigRedBuster]

41 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Thanks for your view. I take it you advocate trying to make the two State solution work? I think Isreal has contributed to the current situation with the "illegal" settlements and blockade of Gaza. But Hamas has been an influence since the late 80's. There have many opportunities to "not support" them, but people continue to do so. How does Isreal "negotiate" with a group whose sole purpose is to literally wipe them off the map?

Yes, I support the two State solution.  It seems idiotic not to.  You have two groups of people who don't really want to be governed together.  The weird thing is that Palestine is divided up into two areas.  Gaza and the West Bank.  So, how is that supposed to work?

 

As for your last question.  I really don't have the answers for that and there should be way smarter and more experienced people in these things than me.  But, I would start by stopping the blockade.  And then, I know we always get stuck with this and I don't like it either, but if we somehow send them aid and start showing them we care about them...it would probably go a long ways.  Of course, Hamas is going to fight against us giving them aid so they can keep making us out to be the bad guys.

 

But, somehow, Palestinians need to feel that they have control of their own lives.  Right now they don't and it breeds hate.

[DevoHusker]

35 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Yes, I support the two State solution.  It seems idiotic not to.  You have two groups of people who don't really want to be governed together.  The weird thing is that Palestine is divided up into two areas.  Gaza and the West Bank.  So, how is that supposed to work?

 

As for your last question.  I really don't have the answers for that and there should be way smarter and more experienced people in these things than me.  But, I would start by stopping the blockade.  And then, I know we always get stuck with this and I don't like it either, but if we somehow send them aid and start showing them we care about them...it would probably go a long ways.  Of course, Hamas is going to fight against us giving them aid so they can keep making us out to be the bad guys.

 

But, somehow, Palestinians need to feel that they have control of their own lives.  Right now they don't and it breeds hate.

 

I too have no solution. However, something needs to be done to end the slaughter of innocent civilians...on both sides. 

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

I too have no solution. However, something needs to be done to end the slaughter of innocent civilians...on both sides. 

Agree.  But, it sure feels like for the last X number of years, there hasn't been any major conflicts, so the rest of the world has just forgotten about it....meanwhile, that's when we should have been working on fixing this.

[DevoHusker]