Center giving away the snap count

[MichiganDad3]

Watching the Wisconsin game, it seems that the center lifts his head before snapping the ball. Does he do this every play? This seems to be a tremendous advantage for the defense, and may explain some of the poor OL play.

[lo country]

8 minutes ago, MichiganDad3 said:

Watching the Wisconsin game, it seems that the center lifts his head before snapping the ball. Does he do this every play? This seems to be a tremendous advantage for the defense, and may explain some of the poor OL play.

He does.  I have often wondered how that motion hasn't gotten a flag.  Much like a OL shifting their stance.  It's very noticeable once you see it.  It can't be unseen.  Any rules gurus or former OL guys that can chime in?

[runningblind]

I noticed similar head bobbing a few times for the Chefs tonight and it wasn't flagged either.

[floridacorn]

Every team gives it away to an extent when they go on a silent count.  I'm not sure why Scott looks between his legs before he snaps because it appears he's getting the signal from the left guard (you'll notice him stick his arm out to give Scott the signal that the QB is ready). 

 

My guess would be learned to snap on silent count that way (looking between his legs for a signal from QB) and it's a habit or perhaps they switch it up to be less predictable and he's just going through the routine of dropping his head even when he gets the signal from the guard.  

[ZRod]

1) He doesn't get flagged because he's not simulating the snap. He's raising his head. If he jerked or moved his head in some way to simulate the snap he'd get a flag. This has been an accepted practice for decades.

2) The center is looking back because he's either getting the ready signal from the QB on a silent count, or he got a signal from the guard (ready or low play clock) and he's checking to make sure the QB is in position. The last thing you want to do is snap the ball when the QB is out of his stance making a last minute adjustment while he's not paying attention to the ball.

3) There's really not that much advantage for the defense. Most centers will mix it up and pause for a count or two from time to time so it's not consistent play-to-play.

[BigRedBuster]

Which brings up a question I’ve had for a long time. How do the tackles know when the ball is going to be snapped?  Back in the day, there used to actually be a snap count told to them in the huddle. Now, there is no snap count. 

[knapplc]

"Poor O Line play"

 

 

"Fire Raiola"

 

[Cdog923]

That's a pretty standard move when it comes to snapping the ball. 

[lo country]

4 hours ago, ZRod said:

1) He doesn't get flagged because he's not simulating the snap. He's raising his head. If he jerked or moved his head in some way to simulate the snap he'd get a flag. This has been an accepted practice for decades.

2) The center is looking back because he's either getting the ready signal from the QB on a silent count, or he got a signal from the guard (ready or low play clock) and he's checking to make sure the QB is in position. The last thing you want to do is snap the ball when the QB is out of his stance making a last minute adjustment while he's not paying attention to the ball.

3) There's really not that much advantage for the defense. Most centers will mix it up and pause for a count or two from time to time so it's not consistent play-to-play.

Good stuff. Appreciate it. 

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Cdog923 said:

That's a pretty standard move when it comes to snapping the ball. 

Is this an answer to my question?

Well....again...back in the day, one big advantage the O line had was that they knew when the ball was going to be snapped.

 

Now...they don't have that advantage?  Also, many times the OT isn't looking at the ball.  So, does he go when the D starts moving?  That seems like an advantage to the D.

[ZRod]

3 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

Which brings up a question I’ve had for a long time. How do the tackles know when the ball is going to be snapped?  Back in the day, there used to actually be a snap count told to them in the huddle. Now, there is no snap count. 

The tackles are going on the ball, and so is everyone else. That's why Teddy was jumping because he saw the center's move and was anticipating the snap.

 

[ZRod]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

"Poor O Line play"

 

 

"Fire Raiola"

 

Not saying fire him, but look up rushing TD and sacks allowed.

[Undone]

Regarding the rushing yards per carry stat: I'm going to preface this by saying that when I look at our top RB's YPC stats in a lot of our box scores this season versus last season, it's better this year. In my opinion that speaks to Raiola's work and some improvement in run blocking by the guys.

 

But, the numbers get inflated by long QB scrambles. Now one counterpoint in bringing this up is that Haarberg really didn't have a ton of those. But still, they inflate the numbers.

 

Nevertheless, we're #1 on the damn list. That's awesome. I'm not firing Raiola if I'm Rhule and I think he has improved the play of the same players (minus Scott being new). So like, that's super good. I think we can continue on the same trajectory under Raiola.

 

If you would have asked me heading into game 1 "will the offensive line or the QB play be the bigger problem this season" I wouldn't have even thought to say it would be QB play. But it definitely wound up being QB play.

[BigRedBuster]

11 minutes ago, Undone said:

Regarding the rushing yards per carry stat: I'm going to preface this by saying that when I look at our top RB's YPC stats in a lot of our box scores this season versus last season, it's better this year. In my opinion that speaks to Raiola's work and some improvement in run blocking by the guys.

 

But, the numbers get inflated by long QB scrambles. Now one counterpoint in bringing this up is that Haarberg really didn't have a ton of those. But still, they inflate the numbers.

 

Nevertheless, we're #1 on the damn list. That's awesome. I'm not firing Raiola if I'm Rhule and I think he has improved the play of the same players (minus Scott being new). So like, that's super good. I think we can continue on the same trajectory under Raiola.

 

If you would have asked me heading into game 1 "will the offensive line or the QB play be the bigger problem this season" I wouldn't have even thought to say it would be QB play. But it definitely wound up being QB play.

I agree with this.

However, I will say this.  Every team has QB scrambles.  Heck, Wisconsin's QB had a number of them that killed us.

 

21 minutes ago, ZRod said:

Not saying fire him, but look up rushing TD and sacks allowed.

And, how much better would those be if we would have had a legitimate passing threat all year?  It's pretty easy to defend the run game in the red zone if you don't really need to worry about the passing game.

[ZRod]

23 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

And, how much better would those be if we would have had a legitimate passing threat all year?  It's pretty easy to defend the run game in the red zone if you don't really need to worry about the passing game.

True, but we all saw the tackles acting like swinging doors in the first half of the season. I think there was improvement in pass pro as the season went on. The Maryland game they did a good job. Run blocking was night and day from last year, and improved some through the season. I'm ok with Raiola getting another season at this point. Especially considering the next man up filled in without missing a beat when injuries happened.