The Latest Quarterback Thread

[Saunders]

I thought it was against board rules to start calling our players names? Even if not, it's childish. Sure Taylor flat out sucked, but don't go gradeschool on him.

[3rd and long]

The problem is that Martinez isn't THAT good of a runner. He has straight line speed. He doesn't know how to juke or break tackles. I think of Crouch's 95 yard scramble against Mizzou. Ever seen Taylor move side to side like that? Or how Frost and Frazier would run through and over people breaking tackles as they go or laying to wood to the defender. Ever seen Taylor do that? No. He runs through a giant hole fast, other than that, he's not even a runner.

 

I understand being frustrated with a guy who's not leading us to victories, but this isn't even remotely true. I've watched Taylor lower his shoulder several times this year, and that's despite the fact that coaches have told him to avoid contact. He did it several times last year as well. Further, he's juked guys out of their socks several times - most notably the shoulder/ball fake against the Washington linebacker in the third quarter, and there are plenty of other examples.

 

It's clear you're not in love with Martinez as a quarterback and that's OK, you don't have to be a huge fan. But if you're going to critique him and be taken seriously it helps if you talk about actual flaws. You're just making stuff up here, and that's no way to hold a conversation.

 

I wouldn't use the ball fake against Washington has an example, because after that fake it threw it directly to a Washington defender, fortuantly he missed him too. Knapplc I apprecitate how strongly you and Bshirt defend him, he is just a kid and I'm sure he's trying 100% out there, but the reality is he really isn't a runner in the sense we talk about premier running backs. I think the Crouch run against Missouri is a really good example, he made numerous people miss, and that is something TM does not do. He is a sprinter, plain and simple. If he gets the corner, look out he can take it the distance, but he doesn't make people miss, he doesn't cut back against the flow. He is not the type of runner who makes something out of nothing.

 

Again, as I've said numerous times, I'm not calling for him to be benched, but I really believe a series or two where he has a chance to get his head together, and give Carnes some real time would be beneficial. If he cant handle being on the bench for a series or two, is he mentaly strong enough to play the position? He's had every opportunity and still shows little to no improvement. I know the excuse of the day is "it's a new offense for him" and "Beck didn't play to his strengths". You know what excuses are like....everyone has one.

 

And the statements that Carnes is not ready, how does anybody know. We've seen what, two series? What if it turns out that he can do it, when do we find out? Bottom line, when something is not working, try something different. If we had put Carnes in at some point in the second half, what would it have hurt?

[knapplc]

I wouldn't use the ball fake against Washington has an example, because after that fake it threw it directly to a Washington defender, fortuantly he missed him too. Knapplc I apprecitate how strongly you and Bshirt defend him, he is just a kid and I'm sure he's trying 100% out there, but the reality is he really isn't a runner in the sense we talk about premier running backs. I think the Crouch run against Missouri is a really good example, he made numerous people miss, and that is something TM does not do. He is a sprinter, plain and simple. If he gets the corner, look out he can take it the distance, but he doesn't make people miss, he doesn't cut back against the flow. He is not the type of runner who makes something out of nothing.

 

Again, as I've said numerous times, I'm not calling for him to be benched, but I really believe a series or two where he has a chance to get his head together, and give Carnes some real time would be beneficial. If he cant handle being on the bench for a series or two, is he mentaly strong enough to play the position? He's had every opportunity and still shows little to no improvement. I know the excuse of the day is "it's a new offense for him" and "Beck didn't play to his strengths". You know what excuses are like....everyone has one.

 

And the statements that Carnes is not ready, how does anybody know. We've seen what, two series? What if it turns out that he can do it, when do we find out? Bottom line, when something is not working, try something different. If we had put Carnes in at some point in the second half, what would it have hurt?

 

You're comparing a sophomore to Crouch as a senior during his Heisman year, during his signature Heisman run. That's not a fair comparison. Martinez is not the same runner Crouch was, that's for sure, but he's still damned good, and probably the best threat to take it to the house we've had since Crouch. Just because he doesn't have the same running style doesn't mean he's worse - he's just different. It's like saying Ganz wasn't as good as Zac Taylor because Taylor was more of a pure pocket passer - this is true, but it's meaningless because Ganzie's game was completely different. Both were effective - but both played as upperclassmen. Martinez is still a sophomore.

 

It probably wouldn't have hurt to put Carnes in when we were down 20-something points, and the game was pretty much decided. I can agree on that. But as far as putting Carnes in as the starter now, he'll be the first to tell you he's not ready - and I know this because I've talked to him. He isn't terrible, but he's not ready. He'll make mistakes that will cost us points and probably games, and we've already got that with Martinez. Why stop the growth process with Martinez in the middle, to start from scratch with Carnes? That makes no sense. As asked in other threads yesterday, when Carnes inevitably struggles, do we shelve him and get Ron Kellogg III some reps, just to see what he can do? It's a failing proposition.

 

If you want an example from the coaches about Carnes' readiness (or lack thereof), just remember that they've told Martinez to avoid contact. There is only one reason they would do that - because we have nobody behind him.

[treyball3]

The problem is that Martinez isn't THAT good of a runner. He has straight line speed. He doesn't know how to juke or break tackles. I think of Crouch's 95 yard scramble against Mizzou. Ever seen Taylor move side to side like that? Or how Frost and Frazier would run through and over people breaking tackles as they go or laying to wood to the defender. Ever seen Taylor do that? No. He runs through a giant hole fast, other than that, he's not even a runner.

 

I understand being frustrated with a guy who's not leading us to victories, but this isn't even remotely true. I've watched Taylor lower his shoulder several times this year, and that's despite the fact that coaches have told him to avoid contact. He did it several times last year as well. Further, he's juked guys out of their socks several times - most notably the shoulder/ball fake against the Washington linebacker in the third quarter, and there are plenty of other examples.

 

It's clear you're not in love with Martinez as a quarterback and that's OK, you don't have to be a huge fan. But if you're going to critique him and be taken seriously it helps if you talk about actual flaws. You're just making stuff up here, and that's no way to hold a conversation.

 

I wouldn't use the ball fake against Washington has an example, because after that fake it threw it directly to a Washington defender, fortuantly he missed him too. Knapplc I apprecitate how strongly you and Bshirt defend him, he is just a kid and I'm sure he's trying 100% out there, but the reality is he really isn't a runner in the sense we talk about premier running backs. I think the Crouch run against Missouri is a really good example, he made numerous people miss, and that is something TM does not do. He is a sprinter, plain and simple. If he gets the corner, look out he can take it the distance, but he doesn't make people miss, he doesn't cut back against the flow. He is not the type of runner who makes something out of nothing.

 

Again, as I've said numerous times, I'm not calling for him to be benched, but I really believe a series or two where he has a chance to get his head together, and give Carnes some real time would be beneficial. If he cant handle being on the bench for a series or two, is he mentaly strong enough to play the position? He's had every opportunity and still shows little to no improvement. I know the excuse of the day is "it's a new offense for him" and "Beck didn't play to his strengths". You know what excuses are like....everyone has one.

 

And the statements that Carnes is not ready, how does anybody know. We've seen what, two series? What if it turns out that he can do it, when do we find out? Bottom line, when something is not working, try something different. If we had put Carnes in at some point in the second half, what would it have hurt?

 

Exactly! I have no idea if Carnes will be any better. But maybe he will. Can't be any worse. Cotton gets benched for one false start penalty, but Martinez, after 3 INTs that lead to 21 points stays in the game, when its a blowout. I thought taking him out at least for a series to regroup would've been a good idea.

[knapplc]

And the statements that Carnes is not ready, how does anybody know. We've seen what, two series? What if it turns out that he can do it, when do we find out? Bottom line, when something is not working, try something different. If we had put Carnes in at some point in the second half, what would it have hurt?

 

Exactly! I have no idea if Carnes will be any better. But maybe he will. Can't be any worse. Cotton gets benched for one false start penalty, but Martinez, after 3 INTs that lead to 21 points stays in the game, when its a blowout. I thought taking him out at least for a series to regroup would've been a good idea.

 

Two reasons we know Carnes wouldn't be any better - Martinez has been told to avoid contact. The coaches know that if he gets hurt, we're screwed. Carnes will also be the first to tell you that Martinez is the guy, not him. Just ask him.

[trouble]

The new offense isn't what is causing Martinez to throw the ball to the other team, it's not what is causing him to completely miss wide open receivers, including his RB in the flat every damn time.

 

He needs to improve, and he needs to do it quickly, or we will start losing more games this year.

[husker_99]

Bo needs to go tell Beck we need more option in the playcalling. Trying to make Martinez pass too much only hurts us. Running more option would help Martinez and not rely on him to pass to win.

[3rd and long]

I wouldn't use the ball fake against Washington has an example, because after that fake it threw it directly to a Washington defender, fortuantly he missed him too. Knapplc I apprecitate how strongly you and Bshirt defend him, he is just a kid and I'm sure he's trying 100% out there, but the reality is he really isn't a runner in the sense we talk about premier running backs. I think the Crouch run against Missouri is a really good example, he made numerous people miss, and that is something TM does not do. He is a sprinter, plain and simple. If he gets the corner, look out he can take it the distance, but he doesn't make people miss, he doesn't cut back against the flow. He is not the type of runner who makes something out of nothing.

 

Again, as I've said numerous times, I'm not calling for him to be benched, but I really believe a series or two where he has a chance to get his head together, and give Carnes some real time would be beneficial. If he cant handle being on the bench for a series or two, is he mentaly strong enough to play the position? He's had every opportunity and still shows little to no improvement. I know the excuse of the day is "it's a new offense for him" and "Beck didn't play to his strengths". You know what excuses are like....everyone has one.

 

And the statements that Carnes is not ready, how does anybody know. We've seen what, two series? What if it turns out that he can do it, when do we find out? Bottom line, when something is not working, try something different. If we had put Carnes in at some point in the second half, what would it have hurt?

 

You're comparing a sophomore to Crouch as a senior during his Heisman year, during his signature Heisman run. That's not a fair comparison. Martinez is not the same runner Crouch was, that's for sure, but he's still damned good, and probably the best threat to take it to the house we've had since Crouch. Just because he doesn't have the same running style doesn't mean he's worse - he's just different. It's like saying Ganz wasn't as good as Zac Taylor because Taylor was more of a pure pocket passer - this is true, but it's meaningless because Ganzie's game was completely different. Both were effective - but both played as upperclassmen. Martinez is still a sophomore.

 

It probably wouldn't have hurt to put Carnes in when we were down 20-something points, and the game was pretty much decided. I can agree on that. But as far as putting Carnes in as the starter now, he'll be the first to tell you he's not ready - and I know this because I've talked to him. He isn't terrible, but he's not ready. He'll make mistakes that will cost us points and probably games, and we've already got that with Martinez. Why stop the growth process with Martinez in the middle, to start from scratch with Carnes? That makes no sense. As asked in other threads yesterday, when Carnes inevitably struggles, do we shelve him and get Ron Kellogg III some reps, just to see what he can do? It's a failing proposition.

 

If you want an example from the coaches about Carnes' readiness (or lack thereof), just remember that they've told Martinez to avoid contact. There is only one reason they would do that - because we have nobody behind him.

 

When comparing running styles, their class is irrelevant. Freshman come on the scene all the time that are that type of runner, Abdullah is right now. I'm just saying TM is a one dimensional runner, straight and fast. When the defense closes off the corner he is not the type who will cut back against the flow or make one or two people miss and turn that no-gain play into positive yardage. Absolutely, he is our best chance to take it all the way, if he can get the corner.

 

And again, I'm not saying (yet) that Carnes should be the starter. You obvioulsy have some insight into his situation that many don't, but is it possible he is just saying "the right thing" and trying not to stir up controversy. How many elite athletes like him don't think they can do better than the guy currently on the field. It's the nature of the athlete that he thinks he can get the job done (see the Antonio Bell tweet thread). I just want to see him get a few reps in meaningfull time, some guys really do play better than they practice.

 

Its become a circular argument between us on this, we both same the same thing over and over again, just in a different way. It is entertaining and enjoyable though. I don't think I'm going to convince you, and I know you won't change my mind. My question is this, do you honestly think he can/will develope into the type of QB who can lead us to wins against better teams in bigger games?

[treyball3]

And the statements that Carnes is not ready, how does anybody know. We've seen what, two series? What if it turns out that he can do it, when do we find out? Bottom line, when something is not working, try something different. If we had put Carnes in at some point in the second half, what would it have hurt?

 

Exactly! I have no idea if Carnes will be any better. But maybe he will. Can't be any worse. Cotton gets benched for one false start penalty, but Martinez, after 3 INTs that lead to 21 points stays in the game, when its a blowout. I thought taking him out at least for a series to regroup would've been a good idea.

 

Two reasons we know Carnes wouldn't be any better - Martinez has been told to avoid contact. The coaches know that if he gets hurt, we're screwed. Carnes will also be the first to tell you that Martinez is the guy, not him. Just ask him.

 

Got his cell number?

 

kidding, kidding.

 

If he's not ready, he should be getting some time in these games... get him ready. If Martinez goes down, Carnes has no experience...

[knapplc]

That's a good point, and yet another thing to lay at the feet of this coaching staff. Carnes should have some reps by now, more than he already has. If Martinez does go down, Carnes gets totally thrown to the wolves, and that sucks.

[nebraskaart]

Joe Ganz has 1 year of eligibility left.

[zoogs]

That's a good point, and yet another thing to lay at the feet of this coaching staff. Carnes should have some reps by now, more than he already has. If Martinez does go down, Carnes gets totally thrown to the wolves, and that sucks.

 

Yeah, this one is a total disappointment.

[ICT HSKR 10]

That's a good point, and yet another thing to lay at the feet of this coaching staff. Carnes should have some reps by now, more than he already has. If Martinez does go down, Carnes gets totally thrown to the wolves, and that sucks.

 

Couldn't agree more, same thing happened with Crouch and his Heisman chase, no reps ever for the backup and then the next year we saw what happened. My concern with Martinez is that the ankle still seems to be limiting him. He has no lateral cutting ability and doesn't seem like he can get up to top speed near as fast as he did before. His ball security has been much better when he is able to prepare for taking a hit, but still carries it way too loosely prior.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Carnes will get reps when the team is up by 30+ in the 4th quarter. Maybe he should've been put in during the Wisconsin game towards the end. But he gets reps during practice and apparently, he isn't better than Taylor in the coaches eyes. It's not like he sits on his hands the whole time during practice watching Taylor run plays on the practice field.

[Glendower]

I don't think it would have been terrible to put Carnes in for a series or two to let Martinez collect his bearings and calm down.

 

Maybe, but maybe benching him would have an adverse effect on TM

 

Keeping him in had an adverse affect on possession.